MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

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yavuzovic
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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1221 Post by yavuzovic » Mon May 14, 2018 11:02 am

Yeah, Jamie. You are actually right and I'm realising that I have no more evidence to vote you. Hmmm, could it stay on you until I have a scumread?

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1222 Post by Tom Bombadil » Mon May 14, 2018 11:46 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:48 am
Just so we can move on from this encryption nonsense and get on with the game:

##CALL GM: Is it your verdict that Balki Bartothocles is breaking the rules regarding encryption?
No rules are being broken regarding encryption. Carry on.
1

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1223 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon May 14, 2018 11:59 am

yavuzovic wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:02 am
Yeah, Jamie. You are actually right and I'm realising that I have no more evidence to vote you. Hmmm, could it stay on you until I have a scumread?
I think you should scumread Snowy. But you may also wish to take a new look at Ghug and Thamrick. Wait a moment and our dear departed comrade Teacher will explain.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1224 Post by Telamor » Mon May 14, 2018 11:59 am

I see why town needs to have lots of people posting now. We did kinda leave teacher pretty exposed. I'm also in the last 24hours of a deadline so I probably won't be hugely active today. This will be a pretty quick post with a few thoughts.

1) If no one is claiming RB today does that make Balki's N1 RB more or less likely? People have been saying this looks like a mostly experienced Maf team which I would assume indicates that not RBing was a considered choice rather than a fuck up. I guess that shows they are happy to use it to sow confusion and at least to me makes Balki's claim more credible.

2) I'm surprised at Jamie's vote switch I didn't scumread him before but I'm more willing to now.

3) We also seem to have let the conversation about Ike's PR claim drop.to the wayside. I don't have much of an opinion of whether or not Ike is scum but I think we should lynch him so we have complete information on what was happening D1. After all the Maf already know which side Ike is on and we're operating at a disadvantage without that knowledge.

I'll try to get on to post later, essay permitting.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1225 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon May 14, 2018 11:59 am

Tom Bombadil wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:46 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:48 am
Just so we can move on from this encryption nonsense and get on with the game:

##CALL GM: Is it your verdict that Balki Bartothocles is breaking the rules regarding encryption?
No rules are being broken regarding encryption. Carry on.
Very good. Balki was just trolling. Thank you GM. Nothing to see here, townspeeps.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1226 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon May 14, 2018 12:00 pm

Here is my detailed re-read of Teacher2 (RIP). There are some questions at the end:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 8 - Teacher noted on D1 that Snowy was online a lot but "havent said a single game advancing thing all game" and voted for Snowy.

Page 10 - A very well-articulated post directed at Ezio outlining why voting No-Lynch without explanation is shitty.

Page 14 - Wall post that is worth revisiting. Identifies Balki as tunneling on RagingIke - this is interesting in retrospect as Ike had not claimed at this point. Also scumleans Ezio, Peter, and Xorxes. We know he was wrong about one of those. Townreads DemonRHK, RagingIke, and townleands on Bozo (correct), Dargorygel, Ghug, Jamiet, Rdrivera, Telamor, Thamrick, TrPrado and Yavuzovic.

Page 15 - Points out Peter's AtE response to being scum-read on the previous page.

Page 16 - Thinks Xorxes (town) is buddying TrPrado. Notes also that TrPrado is "more steering conversation than necessarily participating in it".

Page 20 - Continues to scumread Ezio.

Page 20 - Votes No Lynch. It is imporant to understand that Teacher viewed No-Lynch as a viable option, but viewed Ezio as scummy for voting for it without advocating the case for it.

Page 22 - No Lynch is not taking off and he moves to his scumread Peterlund.

Page 24 - Votes Bozo after Bozo's apparent OMGUS on him.

Page 31 - Explains he had been scumreading TrPrado and Ghug at EoD but had now changed his mind. Usefully explains his thought process. (More people should do that).

Page 34 - Here we are at EoN1. Teacher advocates for a D2 lynch of TrPrado, Ghug (who he has gone back to scumreading), or Snowy. At this point he declares Snowy is his strongest scumread. Believes TrPrado is likely Godfather, and notes a connection between Ghug and TrPrado. His strongest townreads are DemonRHK and Thamrick.

Page 36 - Discusses Balki's RB claim. Note this quote:

"I think it says almost nothing about Ike. But if its not CC'ed I think it essentially townclears Balki. Because theres no way theres a mafia team with Balki and Ike both on it; and there's no way a mafia team with Balki but without Ike sits on the RB for the relatively small gain in street cred versus the large gain of stopping a cop."

Page 37 - Votes Peterlund. Slightly surprising choice as just before EoN he'd advocated TrPrado, Ghug, or Snowy as the D2 wagons. Explains this somewhat on P.40 with his questions to Peterlund about his odd reasoning.

Page 40 - Also on this page, engages with discussion about Ike's claim but concludes he's 50/50 on believing it.

Page 43 - Critical of Peter's willingness to lynch Ike after he claimed. Also addresses Ghug's comment about Peter's "thought dump" - Teacher says "Tryhard + illogic = scum?". Engages with DemonRHK's question about the experience level of the scumteam; concludes at least two members are very experienced, and Xorxes NK was a fearkill.

Page 43 - Votes for Snowy.

Page 44 - Accuses Balki of misrepresenting him with regard to whether he town-read Bozo.

Page 45 - Outlines his case on Snowy thus:

"Scummiest person on the Bozo wagon. repeatedly joined wagons (ghug, reedeer) without giving reasons but when they seemed popular (either by vote or by contemporaneous discussion). Not talking. Associational with Demon(-) and ghug(+) so flip informs their slots."

Page 55 - Now in Night 2 - Teacher is "positive" that Snowy is scum, and Ghug as well.

Page 56 - Penultimate post before he died. Teacher predicts that Snowy, Ghug, Thamrick and Balki are scum. You should all re-read this P56 post now that Teacher has been killed.

===============
OBSERVATIONS
===============

1. Teacher consistently scumread Snowy and generally had Snowy as his top scumread.
2. Teacher viewed EoD2 as scum saving Snowy.
3. Teacher believed that Ghug was almost certainly scum with Snowy.
4. Teacher's potential other scumteam members were Thamrick and Balki, and possibly either Peter or TrPrado for the last one. Ezio was also under suspicion.
5. Considered it highly unlikely RagingIke and Balki are both scum.


QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

QUESTIONS

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

@Snowy: Teacher2 consistently scumread you, and regarded EoD2 as a clear save on you by your Mafia buddies. You barely responded to this at the time. Do you have anything to say now?

@Ghug: What do you make of (a) Teacher2's general case against you, and (b) his observations about your connection to TrPrado?

@Ezio: Why did you post your No-Lynch vote on D1 without any explanation or commentary? Why were you surprised that people voted for you on D1?

@Thamrick: Teacher2 went from strongly townreading you during D1 and N1 to putting you on the scumteam on N2, shortly before he was killed. What do you think about this?

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1227 Post by Telamor » Mon May 14, 2018 12:01 pm

I forgot to vote:
##Vote RagingIke297

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1228 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon May 14, 2018 12:07 pm

Here is my detailed re-read of Snowy:
-------------------------------------
He's been deliberately shit and contributed almost nothing. If he was town this would violate his wincon.

Teacher2 had him pinned as scum and his response was not to respond. I (Jamie) am the only person against whom he mounted a defence, and on re-read (do it yourself, it won't take more than three minutes) it appears he did that because he felt there was a chance of getting me lynched.

I don't believe Snowy is this lazy and disengaged - instead I believe he's saving his energy for the Mafia QT.

My vote is staying where it is. You should all honour the memory of Teacher2 by joining me and DemonRHK by voting for Snowy.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1229 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon May 14, 2018 12:18 pm

Finally here is a re-read on everyone's favourite target down at the rifle range, Ezio:
------------------------------------------------------

Page 8 - Puts in his usual No Lynch vote, *without* his usual essay advocating for this strategy. Lazy, or scum? Several people say scum. Some of them vote for him.

Page 21 - Reappears after a good long lurk, expressing surprise that there are votes on him. Thinks he's the leading wagon (he isn't). Defends himself on the basis "I had exactly one post that said exactly nothing."

If your best defence is to argue that you've been totally useless.... well that's not a very good defence, is it?

Page 21 - "Lynching Xorxes D1 is the dumbest thing", says Ezio. Is that because you were looking forward to NKing him instead, I wonder?

Page 22 - Votes Teacher2 for voting No Lynch! What the fuck is this? No Lynch is your idea, Ezio...

Does not post at all during N1. Too busy in the QT?

Page 43 - Votes Telamor for looking dumb. Ironic given Ezio's own P.21 comment.

Page 56 - Says Snowy "looks very townie" without explaining why.

And that's it.

=============
OBSERVATION
=============

On re-read, Ezio absolutely reeks of low-skilled, lurking scum.


QQQQQQQQQQ

QUESTION

QQQQQQQQQQ

@Ezio: You are a famous supporter of a D1 No Lynch. On Page 10, Teacher2 explained in some detail why a No Lynch on D1 might be beneficial. Yet on Page 22, you pinned your vote on Teacher2 because you accused him of not explaining why he would vote No Lynch. This is very weird behaviour from you because (1) you are an advocate of No Lynch yourself, and (2) Teacher2 had given a very good explanation of why he would support a D1 No Lynch.

Please explain yourself.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1230 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon May 14, 2018 12:19 pm

Supplementary question:

@Ezio: Why does Snowy look very townie?

(You look very much like fucking scum, by the way)

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1231 Post by yavuzovic » Mon May 14, 2018 12:33 pm

Ye,
##vote snowy
Scums will start to lose men.

Also.when you look through your ideas, I don't think reading can be called as "ISO".
When I read Jamie's last posts I feel the prejudice. But anyway he touched very nice points. Convincing and contributing. It's weird that I scumread him only one hour ago but now I think he is likely town. I think he wants to really read (like me) and finding evidences (unlike me).

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1232 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon May 14, 2018 1:03 pm

@Jamiet - Ezio could be lurking but he isn't a low skilled scum, he was MVP on M35 for scum. I also really dislike your appeal to emotion on "honouring" Teacher by following his reads. Following a static dead VT reads is a good way for scum to justify a town lynch.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1233 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon May 14, 2018 1:08 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:03 pm
@Jamiet - Ezio could be lurking but he isn't a low skilled scum, he was MVP on M35 for scum. I also really dislike your appeal to emotion on "honouring" Teacher by following his reads. Following a static dead VT reads is a good way for scum to justify a town lynch.
You are right that Ezio has played well as scum in the past. Hmm. What do you make of his play this time? Still looks scummy to me. Your thoughts?

I am voting for Snowy. I think Snowy is scum. Do you think he is town? If you do, why do you think so?

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1234 Post by dargorygel » Mon May 14, 2018 1:20 pm

@telamor. I think Ike's claim doesn't ring true, either. And I agree that an Ike lynch (however it flips) will tell us a lot.

But if Ike is PR, is lynching him worth it? Won't we lose more than we might gain?

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1235 Post by Foxcastle » Mon May 14, 2018 1:42 pm

TrPrado wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:12 am
Foxcastle wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:51 pm
Yeah, my point is that townies don't think of the mafia team as "PRs". You're thinking like scum, and that's why I'm voting you.
I criticized Jamie for doing the same to Ike so:

Do you SERIOUSLY think a scum is going to be caught for being so careless about their words?
Maybe? My scumread of Peter is not based solely on this one catch, though.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1236 Post by ghug » Mon May 14, 2018 2:04 pm

I don't like how everyone has just piled onto these wagons to start the day with minimal discussion.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1237 Post by Foxcastle » Mon May 14, 2018 2:08 pm

Why are we not just hammering Ike today?

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1238 Post by ghug » Mon May 14, 2018 2:49 pm

I mean, if they're gonna keep not roleblocking anyone as long as we leave him alive, I'm OK with that trade.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1239 Post by RagingIke297 » Mon May 14, 2018 2:52 pm

ghug wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:49 pm
I mean, if they're gonna keep not roleblocking anyone as long as we leave him alive, I'm OK with that trade.
Three people still haven't posted, how certain are you scum didn't roleblock anyone ghug?

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#1240 Post by ghug » Mon May 14, 2018 2:56 pm

@Jamie, teacher's case on me was pretty good. I townread him heavily for it before his death. It's wrong, as really I just cooled off on snowy, but y'all have no way of knowing that. The Prado connection I found less compelling.
RagingIke297 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:52 pm
ghug wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:49 pm
I mean, if they're gonna keep not roleblocking anyone as long as we leave him alive, I'm OK with that trade.
Three people still haven't posted, how certain are you scum didn't roleblock anyone ghug?
I'm not certain, but the odds are low that anyone's gonna claim it at this point.

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