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Flum, you seem so certain about rivera. Rushing through N2 and current day, what’s convinced you so much that the hammer is in play?

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:02 am

I am curious if the global townread on me was in part because Mafia didn't want to risk calling my bluff.

I am going back through this today and I am looking for some sort of qualifiable reason behind that townread. At this point I'm really only seeing "vibes."

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:58 am

At what point does a mass claim actually become an option?

Discuss!

I've been wondering this.
I think it's probably a good idea soon. At least definitely when there's 5 players left. I have an idea if we do that.

No one should claim anything until we hear from Rdr though

Going back to this because I was interested in what was informing rivera's read at the time.

rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:58 am

My main reason to townread Flum yesterday was the PR or something he was claiming. I don't think Mafia makes this kind of move as it draw attention and could backfire badly. After Kak flips the interaction between him and Flum also doesn't look scum x scum..

The part in bold has been informing a lot of my reads this game. "Mafia wouldn't play that brazenly, would they?"

But...?

I know I am muddying the waters right now, and it's a shitty thing to do as town, but also given my loathing of hammers/ends in general...the uncertainty is killing me.

bozotheclown wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:31 pm

This seems reasonable, so if you are town and you assume I am town, which I realize may not be obvious to you, what do you think is more likely:

1. damo was bussing Kakarroto
2. Kakarroto was bussing KoalaAttack
3. the mafia are in Bonatogether/Jamiet/worcej

Giving this bozo observation of rivera's read a look.

1. We know is incorrect.
2. Maybe?
3. We know that the set has been reduced to jamie/worcej (according to bozo's own words, so there is motivation there or speculation)

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:53 pm

Flum, you seem so certain about rivera. Rushing through N2 and current day, what’s convinced you so much that the hammer is in play?

I personally don't see myself changing my mind on rdr at this point which is why I'm fine with the hammer.

I also won't be around at eod and I want to be around for the phase change because who knows what pr shenanigans are going on.

If you don't think the hammer is a good idea, then I'm open minded to hearing why.

Exchange between jamie and flum

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:28 pm

Do you have any further analysis on people's reactions to your fakery?

I started townreading you over it. I liked damo's response to it too.
I thought HB and Rdr were a little weird, but I'm now townreading HB, and I currently suspect bona a lot more than Rdr right now.

We're running on "vibes" like an ex-girlfiend of mine liked to run on fumes. She has a hell of a model tank collection. Didn't occur to me that she wasn't only in it because she was a history buff.

How long had the narrative about rivera been going on prior to this post?

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:31 pm

If you don't think the hammer is a good idea, then I'm open minded to hearing why.

In a situation where it's not a foregone conclusion, like a verified mafia caught, then it removes any opportunity for continued digging. That's my opinion. Is rivera identified? I don't think so. He himself is saying he's having a shitty game. Is that because he's mafia? I don't know. I just don't think we can be so cavalier with a possible miskill.

KoalaAttack wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:26 am

But how long do you wait? And why wouldn't the suspect always claim The Doctor or The Coolest Role regardless of alignment?

Obviously Mafia would. But even a Townie – you folks keep telling me how Townie suicide or non-defense of MK is terrible. How is this different?

Feel free to tell me that answering this mid-game helps the Mafia and not.

You wait until Rdr responds.

If you are a townie, fakeclaiming doc or cop is the worst thing you can do, as the real cop and doc will counterclaim and it will out them, so it will result in you still dying but also out a PR for mafia.

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:37 pm

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:31 pm

If you don't think the hammer is a good idea, then I'm open minded to hearing why.

In a situation where it's not a foregone conclusion, like a verified mafia caught, then it removes any opportunity for continued digging. That's my opinion. Is rivera identified? I don't think so. He himself is saying he's having a shitty game. Is that because he's mafia? I don't know. I just don't think we can be so cavalier with a possible miskill.

It looks like we have a lot of time as we wait for rdr lol.

Death flows here like oil
That is Oklahoma now
But who has the match?

Okie Votie Countie
Rdrivera2005 (5): Koala, Flum, bozo, Jamie, worcej
Flum and Koala are suggesting an early end to the day.

rdr is facing poetic justice.

Hamilton and Brian, and rdr, have not written their deciding poetry.
RDR and all the dead people have not yet posted enough.

worcej wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:14 pm

Mid-drive to Dryden, ON atm and unsure how much longer I will have reception.

Rdr seemed off to me initially. He’s the most negative opinion I have at this point, so putting a ##vote rdr in to ensure I meet game requirements.

First instance I observed, searching "rivera" and "rdr," where the narrative of being off/suspicious appeared. Tracking people's reads as we move forward through the day and night phases, it seems it was only reinforced.

Thought on that worcej vote, whose true identity is unknown to town, is:

a) townie and just dropped the vote there knowing they weren't going to be around
b) mafia putting a vote on town, probably knowing there'd be no real traction (and why wasn't there...but of course worcej wasn't around to push it more)
c) mafia on mafia; "Hey buddy, I'm not around today so I'll put the vote on you, no one will notice it since they'll be focused on..."

So what's the direct route from worcej to voting to hammer rivera?

Koala drops the first vote on rivera. However,

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:46 am

##vote rdr
##end
I'm trying to stay open minded but at this point I'm not sure acting would change my mind.

I don't think rdr is a pr either.

Is the first request to end.

I know my gut has been off about this game, but there's things that just aren't adding up to me.

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:23 pm

I know I am muddying the waters right now, and it's a shitty thing to do as town, but also given my loathing of hammers/ends in general...the uncertainty is killing me.

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:34 pm

We're running on "vibes" like an ex-girlfiend of mine liked to run on fumes. She has a hell of a model tank collection. Didn't occur to me that she wasn't only in it because she was a history buff.

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:04 pm

I know my gut has been off about this game, but there's things that just aren't adding up to me.

I don't understand the meaning of the ex-girlfriend reference after the "vibes" bit – but I think your overall sentiment is uncertainty.

I certainly feel very uncertain. I suspect everyone, I am just going with a forced-stack-ranking of whom I suspect more vs less. As well as which flip I feel would be most informative for the town.

Well – do you have a better / stronger alternative theory case that is based on something more concrete than "vibes"? I would be interested to hear it. (And your rationale of not sharing it sooner if you did have one of course.)

bozotheclown wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:28 am

KoalaAttack wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:51 am

In other news, here my updated Suspect list:

(1) rdrivera – see my last few posts
(2) Bozo – on one hand, Jamiet vs Bozo feels eerily like Koala vs ghug / Koala vs Bona or even say TFB vs Damo last game ... but on the other, a few uncharacteristic mechanical omissions or mistakes in replying to things

BUT if either of rdrivera or Bozo were to flip and flip Town, I would really want to revisit the worcej / HB / Flum trio of buddying to AnnoyingKoala.

Jamiet has fallen off the list due to asking lots of good / tough questions lately. Maybe it's very good bussing though, but I can't tell since it's my first game with Jamiet as a player beyond half-of-D1... So I defer to the Town, and more folks seem to think Jamiet is Town than Mafia slots remaining... shrug.

I understand what you are saying, but why do you think I would be more likely to make a mistake as mafia than town? As mafia I would not say something I know is inaccurate and hope that no one would notice.

Good question, and I think I know what you are trying to say.

Fair enough, but I need to stack-rank my suspicions somehow, and I've got nothing better at this point (outside rdrivera who is already above you in my list)

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:43 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:41 pm

People supporting claiming:

Jamie T
Bozo C

Missed my support for it.

Missed mine too - though I was indirect I guess with my response.

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:50 pm

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:37 pm

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:31 pm

If you don't think the hammer is a good idea, then I'm open minded to hearing why.

In a situation where it's not a foregone conclusion, like a verified mafia caught, then it removes any opportunity for continued digging. That's my opinion. Is rivera identified? I don't think so. He himself is saying he's having a shitty game. Is that because he's mafia? I don't know. I just don't think we can be so cavalier with a possible miskill.

It looks like we have a lot of time as we wait for rdr lol.

We might want to discuss selecting a time where will assume rdrivera is not coming back.

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:26 pm

bozotheclown wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:31 pm

This seems reasonable, so if you are town and you assume I am town, which I realize may not be obvious to you, what do you think is more likely:

1. damo was bussing Kakarroto
2. Kakarroto was bussing KoalaAttack
3. the mafia are in Bonatogether/Jamiet/worcej

Giving this bozo observation of rivera's read a look.

1. We know is incorrect.
2. Maybe?
3. We know that the set has been reduced to jamie/worcej (according to bozo's own words, so there is motivation there or speculation)

I know that (3.) is false. I'm town.

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:34 pm

Exchange between jamie and flum

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:28 pm

Do you have any further analysis on people's reactions to your fakery?

I started townreading you over it. I liked damo's response to it too.
I thought HB and Rdr were a little weird, but I'm now townreading HB, and I currently suspect bona a lot more than Rdr right now.

We're running on "vibes" like an ex-girlfiend of mine liked to run on fumes. She has a hell of a model tank collection. Didn't occur to me that she wasn't only in it because she was a history buff.

How long had the narrative about rivera been going on prior to this post?

You've hacked those quotes around horribly, the first line is from me, the second one is Fluminator replying.

bozotheclown wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:22 pm

Fluminator wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:50 pm

Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:37 pm

In a situation where it's not a foregone conclusion, like a verified mafia caught, then it removes any opportunity for continued digging. That's my opinion. Is rivera identified? I don't think so. He himself is saying he's having a shitty game. Is that because he's mafia? I don't know. I just don't think we can be so cavalier with a possible miskill.

It looks like we have a lot of time as we wait for rdr lol.

We might want to discuss selecting a time where will assume rdrivera is not coming back.

I will endhammer in under 6 hours.

In the entire history of Mafia, has a Mafia player ever actually gone "oh, you got me" and straight-up confessed to their crimes? Isn't that even against the rules / spirit of the game?

I like your hard questions to others Jamiet – but I don't know if I find the times where you respond to something with "I am town" more funny or suspicious.

I mean, do I really need to say "2 is False because I am Town" here? Which is uselessly unverifiable for anyone non-Koala and therefore unhelful? I thought your whole spiel to me early on was about being helpful to town?