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i'm torn here

in a lot of ways the claim from pyx looks like a claim of convenience in relation to the fake track from rumi when scum undoubtedly did not track their nightkill target


but scum rarely come up with elaborate ploys like that - jus doesn't happen


more straightforward occam's razor answer is the nightkills point to bo - kills can be misleading but in the late game often more telling

you're kinda on the last thought path for me here which is does it actually make sense for scum!bo not to NK me at some point

which is basically what I wrote my response to damo about, and he's who I hoped would read it

i need to take the night off

wolfu wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:39 pm

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:10 pm

Ask me things to make it make more sense then

it's not that i need help to make it make sense - i perfectly understand what you are arguing but i'm...not sure it adds up to the perfect plan/conspiracy etc especially given there's no daytime communication between the mafia so the claim from pyx would have likely had to have been an improvised maneuver rather than some master plan, and i have a bit of a hard time seeing an inexperienced player pulling that one out

even his reaction to being cased by you - i would kind of expect scum in that situation to just immediately push back on you but his hesitance came acriss as townie to me, more of a "i don't know who is mafia and i'm not going to rush to conclusions"

I see it in the exact opposite way. Not everyone is the same and fits a mould of what “scum behavior” is in some archetypal world. Pyxxy was frustrated and retreated, knowing I had them in a corner and wanting to collect themselves before coming forward with misdirection - an attack on me - rather than being defensive, and secondarily with appeals to damo and to you, which I thought you’d see right through frankly.

There’s a reason I’m not apologizing or sucking up and it’s not because I’m a dick, even if that is very much the case. It’s because I laid my piece out there on the table and have nothing to recover from. If I’m wrong (from my pov that’s extremely unlikely) or if the cards fall another direction that’s just the way it goes, but I don’t feel any pressure right now. Pyxxy obviously feels that pressure.

wolfu wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:47 pm

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:44 pm

your reaction to RHK’s claim was both not commuter and not a teammate as a teammate knows that his claim is fake and that the goal is for his fake claim to be revealed (case against pyxxy aside) and the commuter wouldn’t just let him kill someone.

does the last mafia being the backup mean anything to you at all? because from my point of view if they're trying to get the venge killed and have it passed on to the backup then they don't care if the backup looks bad in this scenario

I haven’t ruled out that Rumi getting modkilled wasn’t some diabolical (and hopefully rule breaking) plan, but I have major doubts about it. Rumi was probably just as much a part of the long term plan as anyone, given there was no pressure going their way at all. And I really don’t see it as a grand conspiracy so much as it was a great idea to take advantage of RHK’s role that turned out to be a much bigger deal with Rumi gone. With Rumi alive and Bona effectively saved again they would have three options for their long game and could continue to put the puzzle together as time went on.

So no, I guess that’s my answer. The backup with a vengeful power would have been an ace up their sleeve that may be useful but not something to plan the rest of the game around.

pyxxy wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:26 pm

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:14 pm

pyxxy wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:06 pm

##CALL GM
bit of a weird one, but it matters to me :)

For the Bard, if they visit and roleblock someone during the night, does the person who was roleblocked get a PM i.e. "During the night, you were roleblocked." ?

##GM Note: yes.

Oh.

Then I really have no idea why bo thought I was a Bard.

If I were scum would I think you’re also scum? My perspective makes it so easy to see this as a slip.

If I were scum you’d know exactly why I was calling you the bard - because I was making shit up in a desperate, if not well done, ploy to not die today.

Obviously my vote isn’t changing, so damo is gonna have to agree with whatever you come up with unless you’d like to force a tie and get damo killed so you can make a mistake tomorrow lol.

I’ll make time be back on for a bit before the deadline if you have any particular questions for me.

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:40 am

If I were scum you’d know exactly why I was calling you the bard - because I was making shit up in a desperate, if not well done, ploy to not die today.

That's kinda my point though.

Everything else about your case is very strong imo. Except for the Bard part. But. It doesn't make any sense to me why scum you would put in excellent work for the rest of the case and then pick Bard for no other apparent reason than it's what I put in my bozo survey response, when it's something that would have surfaced by now re: someone saying they got roleblocked at night.

I’m not beyond convincing that I’m wrong about you, but I am beyond convincing that I’m wrong about you if the next best option is me

The idea that you said exactly what was going on (telling the truth is a lot easier to do than trying to back up a lie) made a lot of sense given withholding the shot to me really didn’t. I’m not sure how you didn’t have the commuter nailed. It took very little effort to rule out everyone else. The lack of a shot because the role didn’t exist made a lot more sense than you actually not knowing celaph was the commuter by basic POE alone.

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:07 am

I’m not beyond convincing that I’m wrong about you, but I am beyond convincing that I’m wrong about you if the next best option is me

The idea that you said exactly what was going on (telling the truth is a lot easier to do than trying to back up a lie) made a lot of sense given withholding the shot to me really didn’t. I’m not sure how you didn’t have the commuter nailed. It took very little effort to rule out everyone else. The lack of a shot because the role didn’t exist made a lot more sense than you actually not knowing celaph was the commuter by basic POE alone.

Eh, like I said, I thought damo was the commuter and that we were on the same wavelength.

What did you think about wolfu's NoKill suggestion?

It’s a great idea for you and bad for the rest of us.

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:48 am

It’s a great idea for you and bad for the rest of us.

Ah, taking the words right out of my mouth

I don't find it credible that scumbo would attempt to NK rdr and Celaph before quasi townclear pyxxy.

@wolfu if you were scum who would have have attempted to NK those nights?

damo666 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:45 am

I don't find it credible that scumbo would attempt to NK rdr and Celaph before quasi townclear pyxxy.

@wolfu if you were scum who would have have attempted to NK those nights?

Not putting words in your mouth, but does this means that you believe bo when he wrote:

Surprise! There’s actually a fourth character, the commuter! They did not counter, and that’s their only role in this story. I won’t reveal who they are, but it really isn’t hard to figure out at this point.

in his wall post. bo claims to have known that it was obviously celaph, yet it seems like you, me, and wolfu weren't on the same page as him.

pyxxy wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:12 pm

damo666 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:45 am

I don't find it credible that scumbo would attempt to NK rdr and Celaph before quasi townclear pyxxy.

@wolfu if you were scum who would have have attempted to NK those nights?

Not putting words in your mouth, but does this means that you believe bo when he wrote:

Surprise! There’s actually a fourth character, the commuter! They did not counter, and that’s their only role in this story. I won’t reveal who they are, but it really isn’t hard to figure out at this point.

in his wall post. bo claims to have known that it was obviously celaph, yet it seems like you, me, and wolfu weren't on the same page as him.

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:12 pm

pyxxy wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:10 pm

neat, guess bo also knows who the commuter is

It's pretty easy poe. Everyone should know. I'm not surprised you went for rdr first; they were the other option.

sorry i'm late

i have a bad tendency to procrastinate when it comes to hard decisions

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:35 am

wolfu wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:47 pm

bo_sox48 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:44 pm

your reaction to RHK’s claim was both not commuter and not a teammate as a teammate knows that his claim is fake and that the goal is for his fake claim to be revealed (case against pyxxy aside) and the commuter wouldn’t just let him kill someone.

does the last mafia being the backup mean anything to you at all? because from my point of view if they're trying to get the venge killed and have it passed on to the backup then they don't care if the backup looks bad in this scenario

I haven’t ruled out that Rumi getting modkilled wasn’t some diabolical (and hopefully rule breaking) plan, but I have major doubts about it. Rumi was probably just as much a part of the long term plan as anyone, given there was no pressure going their way at all. And I really don’t see it as a grand conspiracy so much as it was a great idea to take advantage of RHK’s role that turned out to be a much bigger deal with Rumi gone. With Rumi alive and Bona effectively saved again they would have three options for their long game and could continue to put the puzzle together as time went on.

So no, I guess that’s my answer. The backup with a vengeful power would have been an ace up their sleeve that may be useful but not something to plan the rest of the game around.

wasn't suggesting rumi getting modkilled was part of the plan, just wondering if the plan was to get demon voted as venge and then have damo follow, i.e. mafia wouldn't care about the optics of how damo looked in response to demon's claim

the posting from the mafia around that time makes me doubt it though

Since we're closing in on time here and I don't want to be deceptive to you wolfu

##VOTE bo_sox48

is where my vote is at.

Gonna go eat lunch and I'll be back for EOD.

@damo is there anything else I can elaborate on?

am likely to just tie things


sorry for the indecision but i'm following my gut here