M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

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wolfu
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2961 Post by wolfu » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:46 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:53 am
And then idk the ending of D4 just feels like scum theater:
wolfu wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:49 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:46 pm

it's literally not wrong you dumbass.
yes factual summaries tend to not be wrong

my issue is not that it is false it is that i do not get the sense you are attempting to solve sabi in that post, or have ever attempted to solve sabi
Does this explain better what I find suspicious about you?

You say you're not going to hammer. Then you spend the time to lay out this case for scum!sabi, a case which _largely_ depends on bona flipping scum. After the case is hot and fresh out of the oven then suddenly it's okay to (try to) hammer. Voilá! bona flips scum and you've got sabi in your sights as the next miskill.
does every argument between scum and another player necessitate it being scumthaeter? the line of logic is absurd

i pointed out things about bona's play i found suspect and he did nothing but act petulant and snarky in response rather than trying to justify his stances


what about that conversation, to you, looks faked rather than me being a townie who had gotten a correct read that scum chose to attack?

because in your view it seems like almost any interaction with scum is treated as theater


and again, the argument about the attempted hammer is nonsensical. i legitimately believed it was 1 vote away from hammer (this is obviously true regardless of alignment). i waited so other people would have a chance to post and so that bona would be able to come in and defend himself, because he had not posted that much that day

bona came back, and his defense was poor, and he started attacking me and suggesting i was partnered with damo. i get pissed because he starts giving me non-answers to my post. at this point, there is roughly an hour left to deadline and i am sick of arguing with someone who is being (in my view) deliberately evasive. so OF COURSE i am okay with hammering then, or at least i tried to.

you are ignoring completely the context of how much time has elapsed between me saying i was not going to hammer and me actually casting the vote. i do not think these actions are remotely inconsistent

you will quite literally NEVER catch scum using reasoning like you have here. not just below random, not just rarely, it quite simply will never work. "said they weren't hammering then tried to hammer several hours later" is not a scumtell. scum do not get caught this way.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2962 Post by wolfu » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:54 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:53 am
Why sabi? Well let's look at your other options on D4:
- bona -> going to die
- bo -> possible, but hard, given he's started trying
- ike -> probably town because of the whole GM would sub a scum theory (forgive me for meta-thoughts or w/e it's called)
- damo -> most people here ruled out a bona/damo scum team, also he keeps doing weirdly scummy things, probably should keep him around
- pyxxy (myself) -> damo and sabi both townread me so you would need a strong counter consensus and would have to openly lead it yourself
- rdr -> basically confirmed town, as you said yourself, which, more about that in a second

sabi is pretty clearly the easiest target, not to mention you already talked about looking into sabi on D3 before demon and rumi died
are they the easiest target? or are they just the scummiest player in the game?

again, your understanding of the game and how it works is completely backwards

a significant proportion of the game had expressed a townread on sabi prior to that day phase - i know bo did, i think you did, damo had said the last scum was most likely in bo or ike

to get a town eliminated, scum need VOTES FROM TOWN

and pushing a target that EVERYONE IS TOWNREADING is HARD

even as i speak right now i have received AN ABSURD AND COMPLETELY UNWARRANTED DEGREE OF PUSHBACK for DARING to suspect sabi

my arguments are largely being dismissed out of pocket by you and others YOU HAVE ALREADY DECIDED I AM MAFIA and i am pushing someone you don't want me to push

again, as scum the path of least resistance is somewhat obviously going to be to push the players PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT TO KILL and those names were clear yesterday

sabi was NOT even CLOSE to being the easiest option for a push and that should be clear simply by the sheer amount of resistance i have received - people legitimately won't even discuss my logic with me. you just want to shut me down and accuse me of doing scum theater and having an agenda

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2963 Post by wolfu » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:00 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:53 am
it's kinda wild actually, you demon and bona are all chatting it up in the thread _immediately_ after darg gets day vigged
https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g ... d=w:315323

you watch him die, drop this post to maybe try and set the tone on sabi, and then dip
wolfu wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:18 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:16 pm


i don't know who you're referring to here? me or him
demon not you

anyway i'm going to watch tv

sabi is still mafia
this is circumstantial

do you want to know the reason i was in the thread when darg got day vigged?

BECAUSE IT WAS THE START OF DAY TIME AS ANNOUNCED IN THE SETUP RULES

if your argument is somehow that


mafia were more likely to be in the thread because they were shooting a day vig

that is just absurd


town has just as much interest in being in the thread when the day starts and the nightkill is flipped

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2964 Post by wolfu » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:14 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:53 am
and then you come back pretty quickly, just to keep chatting with bona and believing demon's claim
https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g ... t=p105-109
wolfu wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:59 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:56 pm


you doubt demon is faking?
i doubt he's faking commuter yes because it puts him in a 1v1 as mafia for very questionable reasons, where he could just claim the scan and probably get away with it every time

possible i'm overthinking it but we will see
I'm not the best person to view this situation neutrally because I knew that demon was lying because of the scan claim since I had actually gotten the scrying stone on N1. But you don't look good, wolfu.
why does being wrong make me look bad, precisely?

do you believe the entire nefarious plan of the scumteam was to...get bozo DKed, and then have demon die to the venge, and then...what, exactly? what's the endgame here? how are they supposed to win?

the fact of the matter is, i am uninformed. i did not know who was scum. to me, it made NO SENSE that scum would openly claim commuter in that position, because they would ultimately get caught faking their claim. i had not looked at the roles in the setup and considered a vengeful. i was also townreading demon at the time. i was wrong, but the claim fit my reads and my view of the game.

i don't really think this is an unreasonable view for a town player to have whatsoever


this mindset of "wrong on scum (who was always going to be counter claimed and caught)" is incredibly simplistic. it will fail to catch scum in a majority of cases.

i fell into that same trap of thinking toward damo. it was that "he wrongfully pushed for bozo to be DKed before someone countered demon, he must be scum". in all likelihood that thinking is incorrect. as others pointed out to me, damo's actions more likely come from someone who is UNINFORMED and did not care about how he would look after demon flipped

my problem is you are being incredibly selective in choosing to apply this logic only to damo and not to me

where me thinking demon's claim is real is somehow indicative of me being scum

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2965 Post by wolfu » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:17 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:53 am
I've never seen your anything game, nor has anyone in this game besides sabi? So while it's a nice reassurance to say "I don't do X as mafia"...

...what tickled my brain at the time was it reads more like "ignore that other part where you pyxxy were suspicious about why you wolfu felt so comfortable saying something like that about rdr, a player that I pyxxy don't think you've ever played with before, but a player that you wolfu would have talked to your scummates about"
i felt comfortable saying that because the posts and analysis he was doing at that moment in time looked good to me, even if i was unfamiliar with him (i was also somewhat banking on bozo vouching for him but i did not say that at the time)

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2966 Post by wolfu » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:22 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:20 pm
Distant 2nd. Besharam - I can see the case, but it needs more substance and needs to go beyond Bona. I can see Besharam potentially trying to lurk as they realize they're the deep threat but they are struggling with it.
again, i have made arguments beyond how sabi handled bona - i thought sabi's lengthy argument with demon that went nowhere was pointless and sabi did not really try to read demon or solve him at all as well. i think bona and demon attacking me is likely because i started being vocally suspicious of sabi. i thik sabi's play itself has been limp and not shown solving intent but has rather involved performatively distancing from when town was making incorrect votes.

i have explained this all in painstaking detail


i get the feeling that because i am unfamiliar to the regulars here, my cases are being glossed over or dismissed out of pocket rather than being given actual consideration. it is like my words do not really have value because people do not know me. i find it very aggravating to deal with.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2967 Post by wolfu » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:23 pm

i am headed outside now. i will be back later. i want to take a look at any potential interactions/connections between rumi and sabi as well as review bo's posts just to be sure about him

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2968 Post by damo666 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:13 am

Probably not gonna vote Wolfu. Toss up beween Sabi and Bo.

##vote Sabi
1

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2969 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:30 am

most of rumi's posts about sabi aren't particularly illuminating but this reads list is worth highlighting.
Rumi Tobari wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:44 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:48 am
Hi can everyone share their general reads about people. I'm trying to see something
BesharamSabi - no particularly strong opinions, but I reread after bozo said wolfu's case was interesting and... Sabi doesn't feel too different to me? Everything they're doing feels within expectations? Neon knows Sabi better so I'm going to trust her if she says something might be off. no read, but trusting neon here.

bozotheclown - I was kind of ready to vote bozo, but then he comes along and explains whats been going on in a clear concise way (remniscent of President Eden last game) that is easily understood and makes me all "ohhh", and feels more value-adding than all the survey talk. maybe town? no read?

Bonatogether - related to the above, I was kinda scumreading Bona for some of the same reasons as Sabi was citing, but then Bozo comes along and kinda paints eveyrthing Bona did in a different light, which throws my entire read into a tizzy because I didn't think there was a different light. maybe scum but maybe town?

bo_sox - I barely remember anything bo has said. no read.

damo666 - doing more than last time, I don't know if that's meaningful because we afk killed him D1. null.

dargorygel - I didn't think darg was a good vote D1, but I also couldn't see anything particular that everyone else was. When he said "I crumbed" I read it as "I crumbled" and took it to mean that he choked in some way and gave up when everyone was voting for him, and then I felt really kinda bad about not being able to more strongly push back against voting for him. We'll find out if he's JOAT at EOD.

DemonRHK - some of DemonRHK's actions feel convenient and insincere, particularly positing that I'm "not that smart" for the paladin play then aboutfacing and being "she's a lowkey sociopath". This is is just my interpretation of the intent, but those feel like opposiing views, and that's reminding me of things I found suspicious in Neon last game. Similarly, he was like "damo guilty" then the moment damo townreads he turns around and says he's tunneling and unvotes. Feels very convenient, but I've never seen him play so I don't know if its meaningful. Kinda leaning scum.

Hellenic Riot - feels very solvey in his one big post, but I think his opinion on deathproof is enlightening, because I recall rdr having a similar role last game and thinking it sucked and wrote it off. But the explanation made me realize it was more useful than it looks. Interesting views and ideas. leaning town.

Princess Neon - feels like an entirely different person in this game, strongest townread I have.

pyxxy is feeling a little more towny and participatory than D1, which is in line with what I was expecting based on last game.
Princess Neon wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:09 pm
RagingIke297 - who?
He said like, three things on N1 (actualy six according to the bot), all I remember of them was the emoting at DRHK. No strong opinions at this time? But considering the sub is based on the other player's non presence on the forum for a week (as opposed to Byz or Neon last game), I don't think swinging the sub is a good plan. total null, not enough info.

rdrivera2005 - rdr doesn't feel different from last time, but given rdr's scheduling issues I'm kind of feeling the behavior is NAI at this point? (that said, I kind of want to know where the "if I die, kill bozo or Bo" thing interesting). proabably null?

Tom Bombadil - Despite his activity, I barely remember anything Tom has done and... considering some of the opinions around I think that might be a bad thing? kinda null?

wolfu - wolfu kinda doing therapying, he's offering opinions and rationales for his actions, but I'm not sure what to think

I dunno? am I doing it right? kind of half expect someone to come along and refute everything I said here becauuse all their reads are based in meta I'm not familiar with.
i think in particular the "i don't know about this person but i'm going to trust someone else's read" is a very typical thing for scum to say about their partner. rumi did similarly with regard to her read on bona where she used bozo as an excuse for not scumreading bona

by comparison the read on bo is pretty understated. i think that type of read is less likely for scum to give on their teammates because they're more aware of their actions. look how much she forces herself to write things about bona and demon.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2970 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:39 am

BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:06 pm
I have caught up on the eight pages I was sleeping thru.

Hi catbae.

Bozo is still pouting over people not doing his poll. If bozo actually read my post I have hinted at what I would have wanted. Something something skill issue.

Neon Rumi worcejic brain seem towny

That's all I got. I'm still sick.
BesharamSabi wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:59 am
Rumi Tobari wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:55 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:36 am

if i have something to say, i want a straight answer

what else is the constant repetition of 'i play the same as town and scum'?
Personally I think Neon is very different from last time. Neon and Sabi refuted me. I don't agree with this perspective, because I do think Neon is very different from last time, but I don't see too much of a point fixating on it because its not too productive to do.

As far as I'm concerned, its just more drama and arguing.
I agreed with you that neon is different this game. :(
BesharamSabi wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:07 am
Rumi Tobari wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:03 am
BesharamSabi wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:59 am
I agreed with you that neon is different this game. :(
Oops, that's my bad. Sorry. That's an attention span to what I'm reading problem.
Yea I said compared to her wolf game, she's a lot more aggressive this game. Before that game I never saw wolf neon. Now I'm familar with her. Her town games I played or spec in, she's been this aggressive.
BesharamSabi wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:09 am
Like legit two people I have townread so far are dead (worcejic and brain)

Rumi and Neon are the only ones I have any sort of confidence are town. Why do I think they are town:
  • rumi: still has the pure tone in her posts. She is driving conversation and trying to push the game forward.
  • neon: has been way more aggressive and less pocket compared to her mafia game, has tried to solve my slot and other slots, her pushes feel like they have nuance
My scumreads are people like Bona, bozo, and damo
  • bona: straight up feels weird. His obsession on three slots is super wolfy from him. His world view so far feels shallow. His push back on anyone trying to solve the game in their own way feels performative because he usually is this pedantic.
  • bozo: he feels like the shell of his former self. Very empty. Idk feels like the quiz was a look at me doing my meta.
  • damo: I just don't have great vibes on this slot. I'm also the least confident in this scum read because it's based off vibes
BesharamSabi wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:09 am
Like legit two people I have townread so far are dead (worcejic and brain)

Rumi and Neon are the only ones I have any sort of confidence are town. Why do I think they are town:
  • rumi: still has the pure tone in her posts. She is driving conversation and trying to push the game forward.
none of this is particularly damning for sabi but i feel as though they mostly lazily townbinned rumi and then didn't really do a lot with it, their interactions with her are weak and don't feel like they're meaningfully probing her thoughts

the description/reasoning for the townread on rumi is incredibly generic and not really accurate, at all - rumi wasn't really driving conversation or trying to push the game forward, she was hanging back and relying on the act of being a clueless newbie to get townread. to me that read looks manufactured

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2971 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:42 am

BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:12 pm
DemonRHK wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:08 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:00 pm


I just don't know what he is trying to do
What I am trying to do?!

I'm trying to scumhunt and make points, and your rebuttal to my vote is a strawman and 'nuh-uh we have the powa of frwendship'!
I'm friends with most of the people here so I dont get this argument.

Anyway demon, why is Rumi feeling like this about you? You haven't answered her.
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:34 pm
DemonRHK wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:19 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:12 pm


I'm friends with most of the people here so I dont get this argument.

Anyway demon, why is Rumi feeling like this about you? You haven't answered her.
Oh that's easy.

Unlike what I jokingly said about Rumi earlier.

I am a sociopath.

And Rumi has never seen me full on agressive. I've toned it well back.

I said, post one, this game was going to be me at full kaio-krellin.

I am going to be what is most likely my worst possible self.

And when I see scum, I persue it relentlessly. Shit, there was a game I had to curse the entire game thread up and down for 72 hours to get exposed scum HR killed.
OK fair.

I rather we not go aggresso.

Be calm. People listen to calmness more.
i said this before, but these posts don't feel like an attempt to solve demon at all

they let him off far too easily on his explanation

it doesn't feel like a genuine attempt to read him

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2972 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:45 am

BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:40 pm
Bozo why are you putting any sort of stock into trust tells.

They are fake.
i hate to even bring up this argument, but: this looks a LOT like "mafia who is upset that town (bozo) is clearing another town (rdr) based off a perceived trust tell"

being annoyed at bozo doing this and accepting it blindly most liely coes from sabi not wanting rdr to be town cleared

the immediate move is to dismiss the tell entirely rather than actually evaluate whether rdr is likely to be town for doing it or not

and that is because the mafia do not want people to be cleared

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2973 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:48 am

BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:41 pm
wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:38 pm
sabi's posting right now feels scummy
Because I'm annoyed at demon throwing up garbage in the thread.

Bozo is being a weird shell of himself.

Bona, he just exists.

Rumi, I feel bad for.
this was a bad post when it was made

it is still a bad post

the fact it comments on all 3 flipped mafia but does not state an actual read is baffling

it looks like a post intended to distance

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2974 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:52 am

BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:18 pm
##VOTE bozo
worth emphasizing too: sabi made this post at 42 minutes to deadline

they voted bozo, despite having no stated read on him whatsoever, instead of bona, who they claimed to be scumreading

at that point in time bona was a viable wagon - the count was 2 on bozo, 2 on bona

why does sabi vote bozo instead of bona if they think bona is a hit?

because sabi wanted to make the wagons darg/bozo

because they actually wanted to save bona rather than have him be a wagon, because they are bona's partner

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2975 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:52 am

abbove post is from day 1, to be clear

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2976 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:55 am

BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:19 pm
Let's pod race
oh, right, sorry, the stated reasoning was "let's pod race"

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2977 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:25 am

let me add a citation for that not having a read on bozo:
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:07 pm
Princess Neon wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:04 pm
Tom Bombadil wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:56 am


So you think his analysis of your vote move and his survey is both “look at me solve” type stuff?
Frankly yes. It's base level look I help stuff.
Unfortunately bozo doing polls and surveys is NAI because he does it as both scum and town.
this is the closest thing sabi states to having a read on bozo Day 1 (that him doing surveys is NAI), but they still vote him over bona

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2978 Post by wolfu » Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:26 am

anyway, i rest my case

##VOTE BesharamSabi

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2979 Post by pyxxy » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:38 am

You sure do like to write a lot of words, wolfu. It's pretty hard to keep everything coherent in my head.
wolfu wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:07 pm
pyxxy wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:43 pm
rdr was sussing bo a little bit but that would be galaxy brain for an experienced scum!bo to shoot the person that he just voted for + barely had a scumread on bo

which is to say

##VOTE wolfu

I had the privilege of holding my vote and thinking yesterday, which leads to today's conclusion. I think maybe I need to think more about what rdr dying means, but I also remember when snowy AtE'd me and would like to avoid getting verbally juked again by a (presumably) good experienced scum player like wolfu.

Once again though the ghost of bozo (boghost?, ghozo?) reminds me to remind us that hammering isn't necessary but of all the days in this game this is the one I'm least worried about.
rdr was actually suspecting bo quite a bit?

i don't know that that factors in to the kill, rdr buried bbona pretty hard yesterday

but he was also one of the only people who wasn;t calling me guaranteed scum and i think it's pretty wild you think i shoot him over damo or you??

unless you believe the mafia are just that afraid of the commuter, which is guess is plausible
re: rdr what I meant by sussing was right before he was killed rdr was actively pushing bo

this was right at the end of D4
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:00 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:57 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:51 pm
I didn't said I think you were town. I even said that I would look at you if Bona is scum (would quote it if I wasn't on phone, but it's on page,134).

And this pattern is probably true, but you also have a pattern of scumreading me when you are scum, lol.
Forgive me, you're right. You said this:
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:04 pm
To be honest, Bo's posts today made me feel he is less likely to be scum.
That's a pretty declarative statement to make if only to flip back to heavily scumreading bo the moment I start questioning anything you've done or not done.
I am not heavily scumreading you, otherwise I will be voting you. And I said I was less scumreading you, so where the third or forth option on my list Bona-Damo-Bo/Ike.

Anyway, it's time.
and then end of N4:
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:11 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:31 pm
I don't really care if you think I should be miskilled. Very few other people seem to have any issue townreading me based on several factors that they have laid out clearly, and you laid out some of those reasons yourself yesterday but forgot about them the moment that I recirculated by scum-has-a-lurker theory and voted for you. Stop playing that way.
First of all, I don't think you should be misskilled, I think you are scum.

Second, I don't think my play is unefecttive. Last game I identified both Snowy and you because the way you both tried to set me up. I also identified Bona as scum based on simple vote analysis logic, which you seem unable to understand and just kept saying "why Bona voted for a PR claimant" which is not a towny tell in any way. So, maybe you should reflect about your play if you are town.

Third, who said you are obviously town? Your only towny moment was that emotional outburst, but it can be easily done as annoyed scum too. And the fact you seem to be getting a pass worries me, because I think I might be NKed or shot tonight.
------
re: you shooting rdr over me or damo, and the fear of commuter

You've spent a lot of time talking about how we're all just fitting your behavior into a forgone scum conclusion so idk if you sincerely want me to answer this but here I go.

If you're town, you didn't shoot anyone :razz:

If you're scum, and granted you would be scum in the way that I have described and have formulated in my head, which may not be how you actually play scum nor how you think good scum would play. Disclaimer over.

If you're scum, yeah I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to kill rdr over me or damo because of damo's weird commuter claim nonsense. Which is to say I can't believe I'm saying this but, good job damo.

The worst case for you, as scum, is to try and kill one of damo or me and accidentally hit the commuter, no? It's a two vote reversal, instead of eliminating a _probable_ vote for yourself, it's still on the board and they know they lived. I feel like you're pretty smart and you would rather try to win with your brains than lose on some bad odds.

Who else you could have shot:
- sabi: (in my world) they're your miskill target, no can do
- fox/Ike/celaph: honestly I'm stumped on this one, this seems like a better target for you than rdr, because you could have both pushed your sabi case and had damo + rdr pushing a bo case, and then you've got all your cases bovered i mean bases covered
- bo: you tell me if it's bad to kill the people you're arguing with as scum, because according to you I don't know shit and I'll never find scum

---

Fuck man I'm trying to get through these posts but I just spent an hour reading everything + responding to the first one. Lightening round I guess:
- I never said you were obvious.
- I never said rdr didn't scumread bo.
- dang I didn't understand why bo said:
bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:29 pm
If you are just trying to keep me talking so you can keep talking yourself then give it up; I’m not going to give that kind of crap the time of day.
to you but now I sure do. There's just so much to try and address and I can tell if I miss anything somehow it's going to turn into like 10 more things that I have to address or somehow I'm just a useless biased embarrassment of a mafia player.

You want a question? Sure. What happens if you're wrong about Sabi? I've seen zero consideration about this possibility from you despite you reminding everyone constantly to prepare for it if you're the DK.
------------
interlude:
- yay celaph, love celaph putting in effort
- sabi dang I know you're busy but saying "go read an entire other game" is just as off-putting as the other 10 times it's been done by people new to webdip. I understand the idea but it's not convincing, drop us some sparknotes :(
- oh look it's me
- oh look it's damo picking between sabi or wolfu

re: sabi
wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:03 pm
if you are going to claim there is some actual difference between the games, beyond you being more motivated to win that game against a playerlist it was going to be difficult to fool, you are going to have to spell it out for me
Yeah this is a better way of saying what I was trying to say. Hm.
wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:02 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:40 am
This is said game

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?t=2417

I play under Sabiplz
also, the "this isn't my scumgame" [drop link with no explanation] argument was literally used against me by sabi in our last game together

they were on a 3rd party scumteam that game
Sabi, confirm?
--------------
and we're back
wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:27 pm
but i am town and you have given 0 reason why me casing sabi as well as bona does not come from town
It's taken you days to say something that's actually made sense to me about your defenses and it's this. You phrased it a bunch of different ways but I think I get what you're getting at now. Hm.
wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:35 pm
i think you are making an error here - that second bit about bona would be scummy REGARDLESS of sabi's alignment. it does not necessitate sabi being mafia. the lack of attempts to solve a player is an individualized scumtell

in the strictest terms bona not trying to solve sabi does NOT guarantee sabi mafia

but you have to go back and look at what he was doing in these interactions

was he trying to pocket sabi? no

was he trying to push sabi for an elimination? also no

was he starting a bunch of pointless arguments with sabi that went nowhere? yes. are those actions more likely to happen between a scum and a town, or scum and another scum? imo, it is the latter


and again you are faulting me for pointing out a connection i observed before bona had flipped, implying that making this observation can only come as part of a scum agenda rather than being

an actual read i had
Forgive me if you're already answered this. I should probably just post this and go to bed.

How would your read on sabi have changed if bona flipped town instead of scum?
wolfu wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:46 pm
pyxxy wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:53 am
And then idk the ending of D4 just feels like scum theater:
wolfu wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:49 pm

yes factual summaries tend to not be wrong

my issue is not that it is false it is that i do not get the sense you are attempting to solve sabi in that post, or have ever attempted to solve sabi
Does this explain better what I find suspicious about you?

You say you're not going to hammer. Then you spend the time to lay out this case for scum!sabi, a case which _largely_ depends on bona flipping scum. After the case is hot and fresh out of the oven then suddenly it's okay to (try to) hammer. Voilá! bona flips scum and you've got sabi in your sights as the next miskill.
does every argument between scum and another player necessitate it being scumthaeter? the line of logic is absurd

i pointed out things about bona's play i found suspect and he did nothing but act petulant and snarky in response rather than trying to justify his stances


what about that conversation, to you, looks faked rather than me being a townie who had gotten a correct read that scum chose to attack?

because in your view it seems like almost any interaction with scum is treated as theater


and again, the argument about the attempted hammer is nonsensical. i legitimately believed it was 1 vote away from hammer (this is obviously true regardless of alignment). i waited so other people would have a chance to post and so that bona would be able to come in and defend himself, because he had not posted that much that day

bona came back, and his defense was poor, and he started attacking me and suggesting i was partnered with damo. i get pissed because he starts giving me non-answers to my post. at this point, there is roughly an hour left to deadline and i am sick of arguing with someone who is being (in my view) deliberately evasive. so OF COURSE i am okay with hammering then, or at least i tried to.

you are ignoring completely the context of how much time has elapsed between me saying i was not going to hammer and me actually casting the vote. i do not think these actions are remotely inconsistent

you will quite literally NEVER catch scum using reasoning like you have here. not just below random, not just rarely, it quite simply will never work. "said they weren't hammering then tried to hammer several hours later" is not a scumtell. scum do not get caught this way.
"does every argument between scum and another player necessitate it being scumthaeter?"
Did I say that? Damn dude. You and bo argued yesterday. You and I are fucking throwing hands right now. We're not all scum! Jesus fucking christ.

Yeah bona was completely ineffective at defending against your case. Which makes you look really good, right? You nailed bona! He had no chance! Wow wolfu is such a good scumhunter, he must be town!

Like, this does nothing to change how I feel about you two! If I believe that your interactions were planned or contrived or other ingenuous, and you seem to understand that I do because you keep complaining about it, then I don't understand why you think that you pointing how "bona didn't do shit to defend himself against my *strikethrough, bus* cough, I mean _case_" is a good defense?!

Taking a breath.

Joke segment to help me calm down:
pyxxy wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:50 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:34 pm
Regardless we need a third wagon. Letting four people determine in the first two hours of the day who we are killing today is stupid. Similarly, we should stop holding out votes out. Wolfu obviously feels strongly about Besharam and should place a vote there. I obviously feel like rdrivera is scum and should place a vote there. The mechanics of voting in this game are scaring me out of voting and I'm probably not the only one, but those mechanics are letting scum drive things and I'm more scared of that than I am of allowing a speed hammer when it really makes no sense to plan for one anyway.

##VOTE rdrivera
@bo
If rdr is scum, was he trying to get a miskill on Bona D1?
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... rivera2005

Also I screwed up the hammer number again, it's 5 not 4, right?

Considering Ike showing up to vote to hammer a wagon would be an instant scumslip, it's really just me bo and wolfu.

So I'm going to try and follow your lead bo and

##VOTE bona

because that's where my mind is after >1 day of thinking. But I have a slow day at work today so I'll be online and reading the thread and thinking more.
You knew that I had voted for bona and that in your mind that would make you the hammer, yet in the post where I vote for bona, I point out how I messed up the hammer math and it's actually 5. You missed the "important" part :lol:

"you are ignoring completely the context of how much time has elapsed between me saying i was not going to hammer and me actually casting the vote. i do not think these actions are remotely inconsistent"
Sure. It was 3 hours. During which you missed my post about the hammer despite posting on both sides of it :lol:
https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g ... d=w:316061

A hammer is still a hammer. It ends the day and finalizes the result.

I give up I can't respond to all of this tonight there's still like an entire half fucking page of this. Consider me bumrushed or blustered or whatever the term is. See y'all in the morning.

celaph
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2980 Post by celaph » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:40 am

pyxxy wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:59 am
if this is town!celaph's level of effort as a substitute then I can see why y'all are able to spot scum!celaph every time :lol:

anyways gn y'all ttyl
And now you see the duality of my posting. I do my best while I'm around, but I just spent the last 8 hours making a poster for an undergraduate conference this fall.

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