M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

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Bonatogether
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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2661 Post by Bonatogether » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:40 pm

wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:33 pm
i don't *love* bona's d2 but it's honestly an open qusetion of if scum-bona and scum-demon both go all in on trying to push me on day 2 like that
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:24 pm
wolfu becomes a wagon! i was happy about this but then the wagon fell apart cause it had zero momentum. cringe! the votes were me, demon, and ike - that inspiring triad. i voted wolfu because i believed they scumslipped knowledge of damo's alignment, demon voted him because of some unclear reasons, and ike because of wolfu saying that he thought someone was softclaiming pr during the night. i think only my vote is really like, fair, here. ike's is fine, but demon's just looks bad. he also notably avoids voting either bozo or tom for the entire day. :sick:

tl;dr:
sabi looks bad
demon looks bad
the group of six (HR, Neon, wolfu, darg, the pyx, rdr) almost certainly has scum just cruising on a path to kill town
bozo looks somewhat better
im the best
this is super weird to me though - i'm not sure how the conclusion demon looks bad tracks just from him voting me? or why avoiding the main wagons is supposed to be bad?

also that "group of six"" he talks about very likely has all town in it...
demon avoiding making a choice regarding the major wagons and avoiding giving reasons for his votes - i don't see what is possibly not bad about that

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2662 Post by Bonatogether » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:43 pm

wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:40 pm
the reasons given for townreading bona have mainly been due to him being loud, which i don't think is a good reason to townread someone
in case you forgot, you gave a reason for townreading me that's not that i post a lot. it wasn't all that long ago, so what changed? scumbuddy on the ropes? :)

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2663 Post by wolfu » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:43 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:28 pm
wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:27 pm
bo_sox48 wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:18 pm


It got interrupted as in you didn't get Besharam flipped yeah, but your vote stayed and you weren't online during that sequence. Did you have other things you intended to do later in the day?
i mean i was going to assess the claim from demon except rumi got herself modkilled and then i went afk to work and when i came back the day had been hammered
My real question is what did you intend to do to get Besharam flipped if all the stupidity that happened didn't happen
probably post a bunch about how they're mafia and repeat it until i was able to hammer my point home or people got sick of me and voted me to get me to shut up. idk i can be very annoying about a read when i want to be

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2664 Post by Bonatogether » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:44 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:55 pm
bo and the rest of y'all made some good points

If bo's being honest about asking to be subbed out, I think that basically eliminates Ike as a reasonable DK, because he would have gotten subbed out before bo.

He also made good points about who could feasibly be the lurker.

So right now I would put 1 scum lurking inside {Ike, rdr, bo}, but I'm feeling like Ike is truly afk town and bo just did some solid analysis so that kinda just leaves rdr on my radar. That's all I'll write about the lurker though.
para 2 - meta point, cringe

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2665 Post by Bonatogether » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:45 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:08 pm
pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:56 pm
damo666 wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:42 am
All remaining town should consider which two players they would vote for next if today is a miskill. This particularly applies to those voting me.

If Bona flips town (unlikely imo) I think my next vote would be Wolfu or Ike.
Maybe I missed this. Who would you vote for if Bona flips scum?
Actually maybe this is just a good question for everyone to answer.

If Bona flips town, your next vote(s) would be:
If Bona flips scum, your next vote(s) would be:

For me, if Bona is town, then I would feel like I've been played by damo, and would vote damo.

If Bona is scum, then I would feel like I've been played by Bona, and would kick his corpse >:( but I wouldn't have a great next vote. I would want to see the NK first (if I'm not it).

Maybe I would have to reconsider Sabi at that point because of them insta-voting damo at the SOD. Respect to Bona for at least holding his vote a little, although maybe it's just OMGUS between the two of them.
if bona flips town, i will not be able to vote
if bona flips scum, i will not be able to vote

8-)

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2666 Post by pyxxy » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:47 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:00 am
I gotta decide on dinner and then cook it so I'll be gone for a while.

Things that are on my mind:

1) Is trying to find a scumpair really that useful if one of bo/Ike has been lurking?

2) gonna re-read Bona and damo

3) maybe just revisit D1 through N2 e.g. who besides bozo was pushing the Tom wagon? why did damo end on rdr and does it make sense?

4) Bona promised us VCA on damo, @Bona I would love if I could get a deadline for that so that I know you won't just drag out an empty promise

5) Ike didn't post D3 or N3 (keep in mind D3 was ~24 hours because of the demon hammer), no idea what he thinks about any of this

6) Need to compare Neon's and Bozo's scumreads now that we know they're both town but they didn't know each other was town

7) I feel like I'm softening on wolfu but maybe it's because they're the only person who seems to respond to my ideas aka not for a good reason

8) no shot this is scum rdr playing his greatest game ever right?

(this quote is edited for convenience)
1) No, not useful to find a scumpair, even swapping rdr for Ike in this hypothetical. The lurker has lurked well since basically nobody seems to have a good lurker read from what I can tell rn?

2) Bona D1:
- fights with town!Neon about her town and scum games being indistinguishable
- says bozo is being bozo
- doesn't believe darg's PR claim and votes him anyway

Bona N1:
- keeps fighting with town!Neon
- also tells Sabi that they're defending people again
Bonatogether wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:23 am
(edited down to only people still alive & dead scum)

BesharamSabi - white knighting their new people again. seriously detracts from any attempt to read wolfu. too tired atm to say something smart but i feel like the repeated attempts to dismiss people questioning wolfu just looks bad but because it's sabi, who knows about alignment.
bo_sox48 - i really liked his angle on wolfu. similar to pyxxy in that he came in late but put in a ton more effort and a ton more thought in a really nice way.
damo666 - liked the survey. not much else. rhk made a good post about him but he dismissed it by saying 'doesn't follow' and then only posting twice more in the thread.
DemonRHK - didn't really do a lot? rereading his d1, not sure what he thought. voted me when i said that most of the game was on vanity wagons - easy jump? nearly ended there but switched off onto worcej.
pyxxy - came in late, didn't really have opinions. see bo_sox
rdrivera2005 - did nothing really interesting except voting me (had a feeling)
Rumi Tobari - feels similar. i have no idea how they'd play scum so it's hard for me to make a distinction - admittedly no towny pureness like last game, but it's very hard to do that on game 2, so a topic of thought.
wolfu - can barely remember anything he posted aside from making a readslist, saying he had reasons, and then not posting them. apparently he had sixty posts???
CrimsonFox/Ike - ike has felt fine but it's easy to do that as any alignment when you have the benefit of being detached from any d1 posting. no idea. see HR
- (ed. note: if Bona is scum, he described Demon and Rumi as "did nothing". He gave the same description to me and rdr.)
- pushes scum!wolfu as an idea (ed. note: I feel like he's kept doing this?)

Bona D2:
- the top poster O.o
- weak pushback on the weird Demon damo interaction from D2, Bona never really follows up on this
Bonatogether wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:25 pm
damo666 wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:24 pm
DemonRHK wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:21 pm
Also, it shouldn't need to be said, but if brain gave you something DON'T SAY A FUCKIN THING
Xpost. Yep demon is town. Misguided, but town.
i dont understand why you derive this from that
- casts doubt on brain's scum list (ed. note: brain had N1 scumreads on town!bozo, town!Tom, and bo)
- makes a case on wolfu halfway through the day, even though he's been voting wolfu from SOD
- talks a lot with Rumi, Neon, Sabi, damo, wolfu, and a bit with me, darg, and Tom

(ed. note: SOMEONE HELP ME HERE. This is weird. Bona quotes Demon once on D1 and then never quotes him again until D3. I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, searched through the daily ISOs. Someone tell me if this is TAI NAI or SAI for scum to ignore scum.)

Bona N2 is mostly this, bo maybe you were thinking about N3?
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:24 pm
looking back at d2

(supposed VCA by Bona)

tl;dr:
sabi looks bad
demon looks bad
the group of six (HR, Neon, wolfu, darg, the pyx, rdr) almost certainly has scum just cruising on a path to kill town
bozo looks somewhat better
im the best
Re-reading Bona took all my lunch so damo happens later.

3) I'll do 3 when I re-read damo.

4) Bona responded, 5) I like Ike!

6)
pyxxy wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:06 am
Neon ended on a scum team of rumi demon wolfu and ???, where ??? was most often damo.
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:52 pm
We have a mis-kill left, so we can DK Bonatogether, damo, and wolfu, but my preference is to start with Bonatogether.
Neon wasn't killed for her scumreads (although she did die for them). Bozo could have been.

7) ty wolfu for keeping me honest, and keeping yourself honest re: Bona seeming genuine

8) The odds of god mode scum!rdr have increased since I last posted 8-)

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2667 Post by wolfu » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:49 pm

Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:43 pm
wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:40 pm
the reasons given for townreading bona have mainly been due to him being loud, which i don't think is a good reason to townread someone
in case you forgot, you gave a reason for townreading me that's not that i post a lot. it wasn't all that long ago, so what changed? scumbuddy on the ropes? :)
i reread and changed my mind

i think in particular the post about your motivation being bottomed out by the rumi debacle resonated with me because the fallout from that cast a pall over the game and i attributed towniness to that thought. that's probably not a great idea though because scum would obviously not be happy about that either

and in terms of how both of you two have been responding to things here damo has started to come across as more town to me based on how he's talking. he looks more like he's actually trying to analyze things and at some point arguing with him i just got the feeling he might be town

the only reads you gave at the start of this phase were wishy-washy and it feels like you only backed off on calling me scum because i was tunneling damo and it was convenient for you

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2668 Post by pyxxy » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:53 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:25 pm
pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:55 pm
bo and the rest of y'all made some good points

If bo's being honest about asking to be subbed out, I think that basically eliminates Ike as a reasonable DK, because he would have gotten subbed out before bo.

He also made good points about who could feasibly be the lurker.

So right now I would put 1 scum lurking inside {Ike, rdr, bo}, but I'm feeling like Ike is truly afk town and bo just did some solid analysis so that kinda just leaves rdr on my radar. That's all I'll write about the lurker though.
I didn't push hard to be subbed out and when Chaqa gave me a death stare matched only by my momma I just let it go. For whatever that's worth

I don't think we can reasonably read anything into Ike other than that he is absent. But his night 2 interactions with RHK caught my eye in the brief amount of time I spent rereading him. It was odd. Reread it and tell me what you think? Here's the bot but context obviously makes things better so it's pages 99 and 100. http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... gingIke297
Sorry in my wallpost I mentioned this because I thought you thought Bona and Demon were being suspicious. I was just focused on Bona, ignore it. I'll read this now...

This Ike Demon interaction is like fresh snow. All fluff. And then it just sorta ends because Ike has to go.

Idk. I might be willing to interpret this as Demon attempting to chat up a townie so that he looked active during the night. But I guess that goes both ways i.e. scum chatting up scum so both look active and not busy in scum chat.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2669 Post by Bonatogether » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm

wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:49 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:43 pm
wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:40 pm
the reasons given for townreading bona have mainly been due to him being loud, which i don't think is a good reason to townread someone
in case you forgot, you gave a reason for townreading me that's not that i post a lot. it wasn't all that long ago, so what changed? scumbuddy on the ropes? :)
i reread and changed my mind

i think in particular the post about your motivation being bottomed out by the rumi debacle resonated with me because the fallout from that cast a pall over the game and i attributed towniness to that thought. that's probably not a great idea though because scum would obviously not be happy about that either

and in terms of how both of you two have been responding to things here damo has started to come across as more town to me based on how he's talking. he looks more like he's actually trying to analyze things and at some point arguing with him i just got the feeling he might be town

the only reads you gave at the start of this phase were wishy-washy and it feels like you only backed off on calling me scum because i was tunneling damo and it was convenient for you
i wasn't able to be here for much of today, and i've tried to put in an effort as best i can, like now

ok, but how on earth does that obviate the fact that his d3 was practically open wolfing

are you saying i should have given strong and confident reads on all of our lurkers? i can barely distinguish them. 'it feels like' is also a crap argument. i thought you were looking genuinely better and i took into consideration that everyone else thought my argument about you was shit, but now once damo's on the line, you're looking a ton worse. i dont get it

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2670 Post by pyxxy » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:57 pm

Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:32 pm
damo VCA:

d1: voted me for the entire day because i didn't answer bozo's survey

d2: votes ike as a placeholder (??? - crimsonwhatever never posted, ike had made six posts and wasn't obviously scum), has a readslist early d2 where he says the only person he scumreads in any capacity ("As rdr is my only read on the scumside of NULL"), he votes rdr and never moves. he also nullreads every single non-participant of the survey despite saying that was his POE just over a day before.

d3: opens with a bozo vote after demon's claim, which he doesn't question whatsoever, despite nullreading both bozo and demon as of his last readslist. becomes 'confused', unvotes, before switching to rumi after rumi's claim and departure, which is like, the definition of a meaningless vote, so idk what he was thinking. then he does a 180 and says he thinks bozo is town and demon is scum. what a funny man

today is d4

this guy just doesn't have good reasons, or consistent reasons, for basically any vote he makes this game. i dont understand what the fuck he's doing but in any case, specifically wrt the d3 stuff, i have no idea why he immediately holds demon up as basically confirmed town and then turns around to vote with bozo.

i can't think of any reason why town would do this kind of stuff. i really have no idea why people got off the 'damo is scum' train recently
I mean that great news is that we still have damo around and alive to respond to this :D

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2671 Post by pyxxy » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:59 pm

wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:49 pm
cast a pall over the game
yesss.....my phrases are infiltrating wolfu's mind.....yesssssss

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2672 Post by wolfu » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:03 pm

Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm
i wasn't able to be here for much of today, and i've tried to put in an effort as best i can, like now

ok, but how on earth does that obviate the fact that his d3 was practically open wolfing

are you saying i should have given strong and confident reads on all of our lurkers? i can barely distinguish them. 'it feels like' is also a crap argument. i thought you were looking genuinely better and i took into consideration that everyone else thought my argument about you was shit, but now once damo's on the line, you're looking a ton worse. i dont get it
am i looking worse because i decided to suspect you? lol

i agree his day 3 was bad i'm just unsure if it was scum or town being a derp

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2673 Post by Bonatogether » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:05 pm

wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:03 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm
i wasn't able to be here for much of today, and i've tried to put in an effort as best i can, like now

ok, but how on earth does that obviate the fact that his d3 was practically open wolfing

are you saying i should have given strong and confident reads on all of our lurkers? i can barely distinguish them. 'it feels like' is also a crap argument. i thought you were looking genuinely better and i took into consideration that everyone else thought my argument about you was shit, but now once damo's on the line, you're looking a ton worse. i dont get it
am i looking worse because i decided to suspect you? lol

i agree his day 3 was bad i'm just unsure if it was scum or town being a derp
you're looking worse because the stuff you're putting out is entirely conditional on damo being in a worse spot.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2674 Post by wolfu » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:06 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:59 pm
wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:49 pm
cast a pall over the game
yesss.....my phrases are infiltrating wolfu's mind.....yesssssss
didn't even realize you'd used it but its a good turn of phrase for what happened
1

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2675 Post by wolfu » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:08 pm

Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:05 pm
wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:03 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm
i wasn't able to be here for much of today, and i've tried to put in an effort as best i can, like now

ok, but how on earth does that obviate the fact that his d3 was practically open wolfing

are you saying i should have given strong and confident reads on all of our lurkers? i can barely distinguish them. 'it feels like' is also a crap argument. i thought you were looking genuinely better and i took into consideration that everyone else thought my argument about you was shit, but now once damo's on the line, you're looking a ton worse. i dont get it
am i looking worse because i decided to suspect you? lol

i agree his day 3 was bad i'm just unsure if it was scum or town being a derp
you're looking worse because the stuff you're putting out is entirely conditional on damo being in a worse spot.
shrug

if damo flips scum i'm probably always getting yeeted anyway. i can live with that

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2676 Post by Bonatogether » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:10 pm

wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:08 pm
Bonatogether wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:05 pm
wolfu wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:03 pm


am i looking worse because i decided to suspect you? lol

i agree his day 3 was bad i'm just unsure if it was scum or town being a derp
you're looking worse because the stuff you're putting out is entirely conditional on damo being in a worse spot.
shrug

if damo flips scum i'm probably always getting yeeted anyway. i can live with that
good

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2677 Post by BesharamSabi » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:22 pm

Convince me not to vote for damo

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2678 Post by rdrivera2005 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:38 pm

Some random thoughts to justify my vote on Bona:

I don't think Demon plan was to get Bozo hammered. He will need 7 votes and this was hard to get. Also, he made two claims that were possible to counter (the scan, as they know pixxy got an item) and the Commuter. If he wanted a quick hammer he would have claimed just a red on a less active player. I think Demon's plan was to out both claims and to get killed, using the Vengeful power and leaving it to the UB. If Rumi didn´t made that “thing” town will be left without any miskill and having to find three scum (we will be 6 -3 today, but scum will have Vengeful again and no risk to lose a kill for commuter), so we can´t miss (4-3 with Vengeful is game over).

That's why I don't read that much on Damo voting Bozo. He could still be scum, trying to distance from his partners that didn't vote Bozo, but it could be just a town reaction to vote for a red.

I also don't read much on D2 voting, Bozo and Tom were leading most of the day and scum were probably comfortable with this. At some point Demon put a second vote on Wolfu that made him a possible wagon, so I would give Wolfu some towny points for this. The vote on Ike is a vanity vote to get uninvolved in the EOD.

So, the main point to make some analysis is D1 and for me there is a reasonable chance that Bona was saved. Both Demon and Rumi jumping into Worcej and Rumi later unvoting is a real red point I can't just ignore. I don't think it's just a coincidence that both scum decided to jump into Bona´s counterwagon. Another point from looking this EOD is that I don't think Wolfu could be scum with Bona as he tried to start a wagon on me instead of pushing Worcej that was a more obvious counterwagon.

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2679 Post by rdrivera2005 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:42 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:08 pm
pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:56 pm
damo666 wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:42 am
All remaining town should consider which two players they would vote for next if today is a miskill. This particularly applies to those voting me.

If Bona flips town (unlikely imo) I think my next vote would be Wolfu or Ike.
Maybe I missed this. Who would you vote for if Bona flips scum?
Actually maybe this is just a good question for everyone to answer.

If Bona flips town, your next vote(s) would be:
If Bona flips scum, your next vote(s) would be:

For me, if Bona is town, then I would feel like I've been played by damo, and would vote damo.

If Bona is scum, then I would feel like I've been played by Bona, and would kick his corpse >:( but I wouldn't have a great next vote. I would want to see the NK first (if I'm not it).

Maybe I would have to reconsider Sabi at that point because of them insta-voting damo at the SOD. Respect to Bona for at least holding his vote a little, although maybe it's just OMGUS between the two of them.
If Bona flips scum I would look into one of the lurking people: Bo and Ike (you can include me, but I don't think I am lurking).
If Bona flip town I will be completely wrong and would need to re-read a lot to get what's happening. Sabi will keep screaming at me and we will be screwed anyway.

If Damo flips town I will be pissed and will keep pushing Bona.
If Damo flips scum I will have to analyze the game again and I will need to re-read Wolfu.
1

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Re: M76 - Dungeons and Dragons - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#2680 Post by pyxxy » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:51 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:42 pm
pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:08 pm
pyxxy wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:56 pm


Maybe I missed this. Who would you vote for if Bona flips scum?
Actually maybe this is just a good question for everyone to answer.

If Bona flips town, your next vote(s) would be:
If Bona flips scum, your next vote(s) would be:

For me, if Bona is town, then I would feel like I've been played by damo, and would vote damo.

If Bona is scum, then I would feel like I've been played by Bona, and would kick his corpse >:( but I wouldn't have a great next vote. I would want to see the NK first (if I'm not it).

Maybe I would have to reconsider Sabi at that point because of them insta-voting damo at the SOD. Respect to Bona for at least holding his vote a little, although maybe it's just OMGUS between the two of them.
If Bona flips scum I would look into one of the lurking people: Bo and Ike (you can include me, but I don't think I am lurking).
If Bona flip town I will be completely wrong and would need to re-read a lot to get what's happening. Sabi will keep screaming at me and we will be screwed anyway.

If Damo flips town I will be pissed and will keep pushing Bona.
If Damo flips scum I will have to analyze the game again and I will need to re-read Wolfu.
ty rdr!

Can you clarify, if damo flips scum, you would be suspicious of wolfu as the last scum?

If yes, then you actually align with Bona's opinions here. Just an observation for you to consider.

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