MAFIA 75: TROUBLE AT THE PRECINCT [HIDDEN]

[rdrivera2005]

I have won as town (or had correct reads) when I started playing like this. I'm sorry for shading you.

Apologize by helping me and Vecna solve this :D

Eden is clearly dirty suspect #1

OK fair. I still feel weird by ghug and damo slot. I have zero idea how to read Vecna.

I am starting to think Sabi x Eden is town x town unless one of them have grown superb acting talents out of the blue (unlikely).

Vecna haven't done shit to get a read so it's not a question.

Ghug is less involved but it's NAI for him I think.

Damo is in his townrange but didn't make any post that screams town.

[BesharamSabi]

vibe checks and asking other people to play for you, V. V. V. Serious meta

Once again how I play is asking people I townread to give me second opinions on reads so I can see if my worldview is off base or not. It helps reassess my reads.

Vibe check is what I call reads on day one because there's no flips for me to put people in alignments because I need votes and interactions.

Can you just stop belittling how I'm playing for fucks sake. I adopted a play style that works for me. I build a town group and bounce my reads off them and go from there.

Maybe that's why I like you so much you play very similar to me lol.

That's why we get along in that game. I just ughhfvdjssj I don't want to tunnel on eden like I did to memes. I feel like everything I'm saying to him is getting twisted.

[BesharamSabi]

Apologize by helping me and Vecna solve this :D

Eden is clearly dirty suspect #1

OK fair. I still feel weird by ghug and damo slot. I have zero idea how to read Vecna.

I am starting to think Sabi x Eden is town x town unless one of them have grown superb acting talents out of the blue (unlikely).

Vecna haven't done shit to get a read so it's not a question.

Ghug is less involved but it's NAI for him I think.

Damo is in his townrange but didn't make any post that screams town.

What makes you think eden is town and that damo is in his town range?

[ghug]

No it’s not that. I’m having trouble figuring out how to say what I mean without coming off like a condescending asshole. And I’m really trying not to be, though I suspect I’m going to fail. I’m just trying to explain what I see as I see it in a way that can easily be understood, ideally as respectfully and delicately as possible.

But from my perspective, despite Sabi’s claims to the contrary, I don’t actually see a meaningful change in how they approach the game. They seem to have merely learned that townies who talk about “solving slots” and “forming a town core” and “avoiding confirmation bias” are regarded as smart and talented at the game, and have accordingly incorporated those words into their posting, while not actually changing the substance of how they play at all. It’s the same empty “vibes” reasoning, the same endless questions that go nowhere, the same hyperfocus on any post involving them, the same overarching drive less to win and more to be seen as good at the game and get approval from other players. And then there’s this weird condescension thrown on top, like my confusion over the typo was insincere and these odd demands to “work with me.”

It’s just all very performative and is throwing me off. It’s not even necessarily mafia behavior although it obviously could come from mafia. It’s more that everything feels like a simulacrum of solving, stage art to be seen and wondered at and praised, not investigation into a mystery to be solved.

I’m sorry if that comes off as mean, I really don’t mean it to be, but I’m posting on a phone which makes it hard to review and edit a post down to be less harsh. I just don’t know what to do with Sabi’s posting, it all feels so fake but it doesn’t even have to be mafia fake. I’m sure Sabi has gained plenty of experience playing elsewhere and maybe things have changed, but I just am not seeing the outward manifestation of it beyond the liberal use of buzzwords.

Sabi keep seaying "work with me" but voting for you doesn't encourage you to do so at all. And I'm not familair enough with this kind of terminology but see your point and I'd like to have something more doubtful to say, but I've been awake for around 20 hours and can't thin kenough to say anything subtantial.

I'm also not familiar neough with these temrs to sya anyhting either way, but htey did feel kinda weird and terminology-y and buzzwordy.

I think Rumi's town but this really reads like someone talking about a scum teammate.

[ghug]

Eden has a point, and I've pointed this out. You're trying to save Eden's slot, but you're voting for eden. That doesn't actually say "Save your slot" at all and isn't doing anything to deesclaate this discusison.

I'm voting him because I'm frustrated with the bad faith attacks on my play style. I can always change my vote.

What exactly does bad faith mean to you? Because I haven’t really been attacking your play and to the extent you could describe it as much, it is completely in good faith confusion as to what you are doing and why. If I were mafia, and you were my teammate, I wouldn’t be calling any attention to you like this, and if I were mafia and you were town, I would probably be making some shit up about seeing your progress and giving you credit for it, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’d fall for it hook line and sinker. I can only ever be taking this tough love approach that I know would upset you if I’m town, because the only way it’s in my interest to do so is if I’m not actually sure what your alignment is and I need to get my thoughts out there, unflattering though they may be, so my other 11-12 teammates can help me out.

I hate that I buy this

[worcej]

Already talked about eden.

Chaqa hasn't provided any game related content so can't say.

Rdr posted too little so can't say much.

I. Already explained damo.

I don't really have thoughts on your slot tbh. You are being more aggressive than usual since last two games you were afk/inactive.

So how are you concluding we may be rusty?

Maybe I grabbed the perfect random selection of participants but your lack of depth here has me intrigued.

I think you are twisting my words to find an Agenda.

Idk how you expect me to have content to talk about Chaqa and rdr when one just shit posted every post so far and the other has less than five posts. If I was bullshitting you I would have faked a read Instead of being honest about the lack of their content.

What is your motivation about this?

‘Rusty’ was a word that just got me a little interested in diving more into why you think that. In general, when I use that word it means people are ‘not in the game’ or ‘performing poorly’ and I am trying to gauge if you hold that same kind of definition/use of the term.

[rdrivera2005]

OK fair. I still feel weird by ghug and damo slot. I have zero idea how to read Vecna.

I am starting to think Sabi x Eden is town x town unless one of them have grown superb acting talents out of the blue (unlikely).

Vecna haven't done shit to get a read so it's not a question.

Ghug is less involved but it's NAI for him I think.

Damo is in his townrange but didn't make any post that screams town.

What makes you think eden is town and that damo is in his town range?

Last time I remember Eden engaging with someone this way and being upset because the way people read him he was town and I don't think this is easy to fake. Same valid to you, I really think you take things too personally (it's just a game), but it's usually a good town tell.

About Damo, he seems relaxed, I liked the meta thing he posted and I think this is more likely town Damo.

[worcej]

Already talked about eden.

Chaqa hasn't provided any game related content so can't say.

Rdr posted too little so can't say much.

I. Already explained damo.

I don't really have thoughts on your slot tbh. You are being more aggressive than usual since last two games you were afk/inactive.

Aggressive Worcej is more likely town.

[worcej]

Already talked about eden.

Chaqa hasn't provided any game related content so can't say.

Rdr posted too little so can't say much.

I. Already explained damo.

I don't really have thoughts on your slot tbh. You are being more aggressive than usual since last two games you were afk/inactive.

Aggressive Worcej is more likely town.

Aggressive and wrong means worcej is town

Hey now, I am right sometimes.

[Chaqa]

Eden has a point, and I've pointed this out. You're trying to save Eden's slot, but you're voting for eden. That doesn't actually say "Save your slot" at all and isn't doing anything to deesclaate this discusison.

I'm voting him because I'm frustrated with the bad faith attacks on my play style. I can always change my vote.

What exactly does bad faith mean to you? Because I haven’t really been attacking your play and to the extent you could describe it as much, it is completely in good faith confusion as to what you are doing and why. If I were mafia, and you were my teammate, I wouldn’t be calling any attention to you like this, and if I were mafia and you were town, I would probably be making some shit up about seeing your progress and giving you credit for it, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’d fall for it hook line and sinker. I can only ever be taking this tough love approach that I know would upset you if I’m town, because the only way it’s in my interest to do so is if I’m not actually sure what your alignment is and I need to get my thoughts out there, unflattering though they may be, so my other 11-12 teammates can help me out.

Ewww Eden is town.

[President Eden]

I'm voting him because I'm frustrated with the bad faith attacks on my play style. I can always change my vote.

What exactly does bad faith mean to you? Because I haven’t really been attacking your play and to the extent you could describe it as much, it is completely in good faith confusion as to what you are doing and why. If I were mafia, and you were my teammate, I wouldn’t be calling any attention to you like this, and if I were mafia and you were town, I would probably be making some shit up about seeing your progress and giving you credit for it, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’d fall for it hook line and sinker. I can only ever be taking this tough love approach that I know would upset you if I’m town, because the only way it’s in my interest to do so is if I’m not actually sure what your alignment is and I need to get my thoughts out there, unflattering though they may be, so my other 11-12 teammates can help me out.

I hate that I buy this

Yeah, I know it’s self-serving, and people rightly pinch their noses at these “if I were mafia I’d do X instead of Y” arguments, but I figured in this case it was self-evidently true enough to be fine. You’re right to hate it but you’d be wrong not to buy it, y’know?

[worcej]

I tend to agree that worcej is a town lean, though for different reasons. It’s not about any aggression—I don’t think worcej has been particularly aggressive in the first place, but to the extent he may have been, that’s just a personality interaction that’s role-independent.

worcej is a busy guy—young kids, job, etc.—and I find you can often read him by investment level in the game. When he’s mafia and only has to keep up enough appearances to avoid being the kill for the day, he tends to let IRL commitments get in the way of posting a lot more. When he’s town and actually has to solve, he manages to make time. It’s not that he just so happens to be busy when he’s mafia, it’s that he’s always busy and you can generally figure him out by whether he manages to find time for the game anyway or allow being busy to interfere.

That rivera is the source of this insight into worcej being town isn’t lost on me. I’m not sure whether and how that affects my read on him yet. It’s an insight he could give away as mafia, but it’s also the more salient and concrete observation I’m used to him having as town. I’ll give him credit for pointing it out while reserving judgment on whether I need to move my vote and to whom.

Selfishly noting I need to adapt my gameplay next time I am scum.

[worcej]

There are far better ways to get actually pertinent information out of me.

But let me ask you why are you more or less likely to believe my answer to that question over any other?

Nobody believes self meta but everyone believes whatever you say about your experience even though it's extremely easy for me to lie about that as well no?

You not actually answering my original question has been far more damning than any possible malicious thing you were concerned about.

You wanting to ‘protect’ yourself over engaging is troublesome and a great D1 kill.

I'm really bored of this discussion. She clearly has a chip on her shoulder about this question, which means not answering it doesn't tell us a lot about her alignment, she's clearly played a lot, which answers the question.

I don't like not answering it but I don't see the need to dwell on it.

FWIW I’ve moved on from it.

[Bonatogether]

pensees
for sabi
by bona together

to start: day 1 is best read in hindsight, but we have to start somewhere

going in alphabetical order:

i agree with eden that sabi is playing in basically the same way (people don't really change), but i also agree with chaqa that sabi has added some other stuff (skill). killing sabi on d1 would be funny but sabi spew and interactions are nice for just getting interactions. it can go too far (see: that one game i knowingly led a dk on town!sabi for being a liability) but i think sabi has improved on getting in into the sweet spot. hard to say wrt actual alignment.

i am the best

bo_sox is about to be hammered lol

byz is complex. i have not completed a game with him where he was town, so i have no idea of his meta. as scum though, he successfully powerwolfed to win in f3. probably indicative of the fact that he is usually some kind of town leader as town? not sure about that. in this game, his posts really grate on me in a way that's hard for me to view as town. other people (rdr) have said they like him for the exact posts that make me suspicious, so i figure we need to devote some more brainpower to him.

celaph has not posted anything worthwhile

chaqa has been shitposting/meming for a fair bit but sometimes comes in with smart/perceptive things to say. i feel that lines up with his townplay fairly well, but this could change depending on how things go (seeing his reaction if he gets some pressure from someone like eden would be a very solid way to read him, for ex)

damo has not said much interesting. has not done math yet. his description of players is pretty good.

darg is hasn't done a lot, and the stuff he has done is meh. could be anything

ghug is lowposting. he said hi to me but didn't respond when i said hi back. im sad

jamie is indeed jamie. he read the rules and uses colors. no read

eden is edenposting, by which i mean that he's posting big walls, talking to the newbs, and getting in fights when people misunderstand his tone. this feels like eden from sabi's first game. i have no idea what eden's scumplay looks like but in when we played among us a year ago ( ) he was similar. pretty sure that would not immediately translate to forum mafia as such so i'm pretty comfortable calling him town

someone said that neon is like snowy, and i agree, with the addendum that neon fights more. the ego is basically the same though. not sure if the results are there to back it up - none of the 'weird methods' have been demonstrated or explained. i read this as town in an unfamiliar environment going around chest beating to show how cool they are.

i love the pyx

rdr is making the smart rdr observations that i would expect of town!rdr. not gonna call it yet though

rumi is in a really weird niche. they're the 5th most active player by posts, and 2nd by words. they have thoughts, they're thinking about things analytically, they're making observations and not saying much about it. i feel like once he hits his stride he'll pop off.

nothing much to say about vecna

worcej had a thing with neon. feels town, but it could also be scum knowingly following a route that will give 0 info.

[worcej]

I rather not spend all game tunneling and conf biasing you eden. I rather save my time and energy to solve your slot and hope you're town so I can focus on actually finding scum

Is anyone else sensing too much anger for the level of conversation here?

[worcej]

For having 47 posts, I feel like Jamie has done nothing of merit other than providing me opportunities to troll.

Well that isn't true. Also do you really need to attack me at every opportunity? It's tiresome.

Is my comment an attack to you? It’s a notable observation that is not common from you imho

[worcej]

No it’s not that. I’m having trouble figuring out how to say what I mean without coming off like a condescending asshole. And I’m really trying not to be, though I suspect I’m going to fail. I’m just trying to explain what I see as I see it in a way that can easily be understood, ideally as respectfully and delicately as possible.

But from my perspective, despite Sabi’s claims to the contrary, I don’t actually see a meaningful change in how they approach the game. They seem to have merely learned that townies who talk about “solving slots” and “forming a town core” and “avoiding confirmation bias” are regarded as smart and talented at the game, and have accordingly incorporated those words into their posting, while not actually changing the substance of how they play at all. It’s the same empty “vibes” reasoning, the same endless questions that go nowhere, the same hyperfocus on any post involving them, the same overarching drive less to win and more to be seen as good at the game and get approval from other players. And then there’s this weird condescension thrown on top, like my confusion over the typo was insincere and these odd demands to “work with me.”

It’s just all very performative and is throwing me off. It’s not even necessarily mafia behavior although it obviously could come from mafia. It’s more that everything feels like a simulacrum of solving, stage art to be seen and wondered at and praised, not investigation into a mystery to be solved.

I’m sorry if that comes off as mean, I really don’t mean it to be, but I’m posting on a phone which makes it hard to review and edit a post down to be less harsh. I just don’t know what to do with Sabi’s posting, it all feels so fake but it doesn’t even have to be mafia fake. I’m sure Sabi has gained plenty of experience playing elsewhere and maybe things have changed, but I just am not seeing the outward manifestation of it beyond the liberal use of buzzwords.

FWIW, I think your correct that there is no change at a substance level to Sabi’s attempt to play but is definitely asking less ‘noisy’ questions than the last time Sabi played.

I would mark it as an improvement but also NAI for them.

[ghug]

What exactly does bad faith mean to you? Because I haven’t really been attacking your play and to the extent you could describe it as much, it is completely in good faith confusion as to what you are doing and why. If I were mafia, and you were my teammate, I wouldn’t be calling any attention to you like this, and if I were mafia and you were town, I would probably be making some shit up about seeing your progress and giving you credit for it, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’d fall for it hook line and sinker. I can only ever be taking this tough love approach that I know would upset you if I’m town, because the only way it’s in my interest to do so is if I’m not actually sure what your alignment is and I need to get my thoughts out there, unflattering though they may be, so my other 11-12 teammates can help me out.

I hate that I buy this

Yeah, I know it’s self-serving, and people rightly pinch their noses at these “if I were mafia I’d do X instead of Y” arguments, but I figured in this case it was self-evidently true enough to be fine. You’re right to hate it but you’d be wrong not to buy it, y’know?

Well, it's entirely possible you'd prefer actions that the masses might torrential to banking a tornado from someone who doesn't have a great track record of convincing others of their reads, and it's entirely possible you'd be comfortable calling out a scum teammate like this, so I wouldn't be wrong not to buy it, but nonetheless I do.

[BesharamSabi]

I really don't think asking people their reads and asking their explanation for their reads is noisy for fucks sake. You people don't fucking explain your reads.

[ghug]

pensees
for sabi
by bona together

to start: day 1 is best read in hindsight, but we have to start somewhere

going in alphabetical order:

i agree with eden that sabi is playing in basically the same way (people don't really change), but i also agree with chaqa that sabi has added some other stuff (skill). killing sabi on d1 would be funny but sabi spew and interactions are nice for just getting interactions. it can go too far (see: that one game i knowingly led a dk on town!sabi for being a liability) but i think sabi has improved on getting in into the sweet spot. hard to say wrt actual alignment.

i am the best

bo_sox is about to be hammered lol

byz is complex. i have not completed a game with him where he was town, so i have no idea of his meta. as scum though, he successfully powerwolfed to win in f3. probably indicative of the fact that he is usually some kind of town leader as town? not sure about that. in this game, his posts really grate on me in a way that's hard for me to view as town. other people (rdr) have said they like him for the exact posts that make me suspicious, so i figure we need to devote some more brainpower to him.

celaph has not posted anything worthwhile

chaqa has been shitposting/meming for a fair bit but sometimes comes in with smart/perceptive things to say. i feel that lines up with his townplay fairly well, but this could change depending on how things go (seeing his reaction if he gets some pressure from someone like eden would be a very solid way to read him, for ex)

damo has not said much interesting. has not done math yet. his description of players is pretty good.

darg is hasn't done a lot, and the stuff he has done is meh. could be anything

ghug is lowposting. he said hi to me but didn't respond when i said hi back. im sad

jamie is indeed jamie. he read the rules and uses colors. no read

eden is edenposting, by which i mean that he's posting big walls, talking to the newbs, and getting in fights when people misunderstand his tone. this feels like eden from sabi's first game. i have no idea what eden's scumplay looks like but in when we played among us a year ago ( ) he was similar. pretty sure that would not immediately translate to forum mafia as such so i'm pretty comfortable calling him town

someone said that neon is like snowy, and i agree, with the addendum that neon fights more. the ego is basically the same though. not sure if the results are there to back it up - none of the 'weird methods' have been demonstrated or explained. i read this as town in an unfamiliar environment going around chest beating to show how cool they are.

i love the pyx

rdr is making the smart rdr observations that i would expect of town!rdr. not gonna call it yet though

rumi is in a really weird niche. they're the 5th most active player by posts, and 2nd by words. they have thoughts, they're thinking about things analytically, they're making observations and not saying much about it. i feel like once he hits his stride he'll pop off.

nothing much to say about vecna

worcej had a thing with neon. feels town, but it could also be scum knowingly following a route that will give 0 info.

You didn't figure out why I said hi to you though.