MAFIA 75: TROUBLE AT THE PRECINCT [HIDDEN]

[President Eden]

I think I buy rivera just being busy and driving at EOD. I’m pretty sure I’m stealing this thought from somebody else but can’t be fucked to look up who—but someone said that if he were mafia, he would know the alignments of the wagons and know where he needed his vote to be, so he wouldn’t just randomly check in and then not move his vote unless his vote were right where it needed to be from the mafia’s perspective. I don’t see any inherent reason why his explanation is implausible. It doesn’t have to be true, but it passes the BS test to me

What are your thoughts on Jamie and if I remember right pyxxy immediately jumping on board after I presented the case?

Have to go reread, but my first thought is that your argument was sound, so I don’t know that I make much of them acknowledging as much. And I found rivera’s explanation plausible, so if they are too, ???

But I realize that’s very unhelpful so let me review it and solidify my feelings

[celaph]

RIP damo

I think we need to seriously consider that pyxxy was trying to cause a tie there.

Likely the opposite. I think Pyxxy's vote going through decreases the chance of a tie by ensuring the number of people with relevant votes is odd. Assuming his vote goes through, we can only tie if one of the vote changing tags is off the wagons and the other is on the right wagon to make a difference. As for why he didn't vote earlier, I'm not entirely sure. @Pyxxy, if you haven't said already, why didn't you vote earlier?

One random thought is if Pyxxy and Byz are scum, does Pyxxy intentionally vote just after the deadline so that he can 'vote' for scum knowing his vote will be invalid?

Having read through the hour immediately after EoD, Pyxxy's frustration with ghug there feels genuine. I still see it as likely that he was not trying to tie it, though it was likely less of a calculated move than I was thinking.

[bo_sox48]

He was driving and wants to spend time with his family.

You therefore do not think this, which you said an hour ago?

By the way, post edits or not, Bo_Sox has Rdrivera bang to rights here.

Rdrivera said he'd be around at EoD to break a tie if that was a risk.

There was a tie, or the risk of a tie, in the last few minutes to EoD.

Rdrivera was around at EoD.

Rdrivera did nothing to attempt to break the tie.

Plain, indisputable facts.

It is a pretty big flip flop to go from “bang to rights” (I thought the phrase was dead to rights but whatever) and “plain, indisputable facts” to thinking that his justification for failing to contribute to EOD was completely valid. And all it took was me pointing out that my assertion only holds water if Byz/snowy is scum, which you believe and I do not.

You're so serious. Calm down Jamie.

Ok so I actually think, to be honest, that you've exposed a strange inconsistency in Rdr's behaviour, whatever the reason. I would speculate that he was paralysed by indecision and didn't want to be seen saving a team mate?

I like it. I still think it’s kinda scummy to jump on board a train with nearly 72 hours until the next kill with such certainty without actually explicating why you’re so enthusiastic about it (and maybe without thinking about why you’re so enthusiastic about it) but I like it

[ghug]

If I were going to ban you for having opinions I would have to ban productive members of our site that have opinions such as Mapleleaf, Draugnar, Tettleton’s Chew, and ghug

ghug has opinions?

After I asked ghug to be an admin with me he told me he preferred oatmeal raisin over chocolate chip. That was the final straw

I think I actually told you "I'll do it as long as I don't have to work" and you said "yes please, daddy". Oatmeal raisin is the shit though.

[bo_sox48]

That kinda sounds like something I would say doesn’t it

[Princess Neon]

That's because you act in obvious ways. For the record if you're mafia, I think Neon is innocent. If you're town, I think Neon could be scum.

I definitely think Byz/snowy might be scum. And Chaqa is town. (but if I'm NKed, assume I changed my mind) Those are the only stances I'm willing to commit to.


That said, if Sabi and Snowy are innocent, I'm personally more inclined to scumread Pyx over the other two. The other two at least felt marginally more participatory than Pyx?

Of course, I'm notoriously bad at reading everyone. Its why I stick to static mysteries like games and books rather than social situations. Why couldn't we all be doing a nice room escape together.

So if Sabi flips town do you tunnel me next?

This one on the other hand seems less well-intentioned. You’ve repeatedly lock cleared Rumi and it’s quite clear that she’s doing her best to solve, and she also clearly nervous about her contributions not being worthwhile. Why so dismissive? You wouldn’t want that done to you, would you?

I would because it's a legitimate question. I want to know if Sabi flips town am I always a wolf to this slot. I hardly see how that's a bad play.

[President Eden]

So if Sabi flips town do you tunnel me next?

This one on the other hand seems less well-intentioned. You’ve repeatedly lock cleared Rumi and it’s quite clear that she’s doing her best to solve, and she also clearly nervous about her contributions not being worthwhile. Why so dismissive? You wouldn’t want that done to you, would you?

I would because it's a legitimate question. I want to know if Sabi flips town am I always a wolf to this slot. I hardly see how that's a bad play.

I’m sorry but this answer is dishonest. That’s not how you asked the question. It was far more dismissive and I frankly don’t believe that you don’t follow how it was. “Do you suspect me regardless of Sabi’s flip?” is constructive feedback and exploration that would get you to the desired answer. “Are you gonna tunnel me next?” is not.

[Princess Neon]

Besharam is either mafia or whipped hard

or both

This shit actually makes me want to sub out no cap.

[Princess Neon]

This one on the other hand seems less well-intentioned. You’ve repeatedly lock cleared Rumi and it’s quite clear that she’s doing her best to solve, and she also clearly nervous about her contributions not being worthwhile. Why so dismissive? You wouldn’t want that done to you, would you?

I would because it's a legitimate question. I want to know if Sabi flips town am I always a wolf to this slot. I hardly see how that's a bad play.

I’m sorry but this answer is dishonest. That’s not how you asked the question. It was far more dismissive and I frankly don’t believe that you don’t follow how it was. “Do you suspect me regardless of Sabi’s flip?” is constructive feedback and exploration that would get you to the desired answer. “Are you gonna tunnel me next?” is not.

Your free to think that and your free to be wrong lol

[snowy801]

goddamn i spotted a snowy in the wild

das me

[ghug]

Besharam is either mafia or whipped hard

or both

This shit actually makes me want to sub out no cap.

It's best for mental health to understand that bo is the worst and nothing he says should ever be paid any mind.

[President Eden]

I would because it's a legitimate question. I want to know if Sabi flips town am I always a wolf to this slot. I hardly see how that's a bad play.

I’m sorry but this answer is dishonest. That’s not how you asked the question. It was far more dismissive and I frankly don’t believe that you don’t follow how it was. “Do you suspect me regardless of Sabi’s flip?” is constructive feedback and exploration that would get you to the desired answer. “Are you gonna tunnel me next?” is not.

Your free to think that and your free to be wrong lol

I can’t speak to what’s in your mind, but I can speak to the outward manifestation of what you said and how a normal, reasonable person would react to it. Your representation of what you say you were trying to do is markedly different from what you actually did.

[Bonatogether]

eden boldly assuming mafia players are normal or reasonable

[President Eden]

eden boldly assuming mafia players are normal or reasonable

Ban everyone less normal or reasonable than me, then ban me to be safe

[Bonatogether]

i discovered the boat man is a discord admin

[Bonatogether]

eden boldly assuming mafia players are normal or reasonable

Ban everyone less normal or reasonable than me, then ban me to be safe

me, celaph, and aaro can all be friends together

[Rumi Tobari]

I would because it's a legitimate question. I want to know if Sabi flips town am I always a wolf to this slot. I hardly see how that's a bad play.

Considering that an hour ago I clarified iwth this

Second. I clearly said "could be". I deliberately avoided using the word "is" because Is would be a definitive declaration and that is not one of the stances I commit to.

Watching the back and forth in which you don't even acknowledge this is just annoying me and making me more inclined to distrust you. And this whole "always a wolf to this slot" thing disregards how multiple times I have said that certainties and absolutes blind us to changing outcomes in an evolving game.

[President Eden]

bo, after review, I don’t really see anything overly suspicious or notable about pyx or Jamie, except Jamie’s change of heart which you’ve already noted.

I do think your initial observation on rivera was sound though. I’m rethinking whether it makes sense that he would just lurk as mafia or not. On balance, I think he would have just lurked and not called attention to his presence, but I don’t know how dispositive it is.

I realize this is ALSO unhelpful, but it’s all I got. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[President Eden]

I would because it's a legitimate question. I want to know if Sabi flips town am I always a wolf to this slot. I hardly see how that's a bad play.

Considering that an hour ago I clarified iwth this

Second. I clearly said "could be". I deliberately avoided using the word "is" because Is would be a definitive declaration and that is not one of the stances I commit to.

Watching the back and forth in which you don't even acknowledge this is just annoying me and making me more inclined to distrust you. And this whole "always a wolf to this slot" thing disregards how multiple times I have said that certainties and absolutes blind us to changing outcomes in an evolving game.

This too. I was granting the premise of a tunnel for sake of argument, because I dislike the dismissiveness even if you really were tunneling, since Neon has already lock cleared you. The overwhelmingly obvious thing to do in that situation is to work with the person you are lock clearing who is tunneling you and helping them out of the tunnel, not being dismissive. Like, obvious as a first principle of basic human interaction, let alone in a game where 25% of the players are actively trying to obscure the hunt for the truth.

But even granting the premise is going too far because at least as far as I can see, you’re not tunneling and you’re being quite objective about your concerns and reasoning.

[Princess Neon]

I would because it's a legitimate question. I want to know if Sabi flips town am I always a wolf to this slot. I hardly see how that's a bad play.

Considering that an hour ago I clarified iwth this

Second. I clearly said "could be". I deliberately avoided using the word "is" because Is would be a definitive declaration and that is not one of the stances I commit to.

Watching the back and forth in which you don't even acknowledge this is just annoying me and making me more inclined to distrust you. And this whole "always a wolf to this slot" thing disregards how multiple times I have said that certainties and absolutes blind us to changing outcomes in an evolving game.

This too. I was granting the premise of a tunnel for sake of argument, because I dislike the dismissiveness even if you really were tunneling, since Neon has already lock cleared you. The overwhelmingly obvious thing to do in that situation is to work with the person you are lock clearing who is tunneling you and helping them out of the tunnel, not being dismissive. Like, obvious as a first principle of basic human interaction, let alone in a game where 25% of the players are actively trying to obscure the hunt for the truth.

But even granting the premise is going too far because at least as far as I can see, you’re not tunneling and you’re being quite objective about your concerns and reasoning.

To be fair I've openly acknowledged my lock clear isn't a lock clear anymore. And tbf I think it is a tunnel and will continue to be a tunnel. I think the basis of their suspicion on Sabi is disingenuous, I think they have repeatedly used language that attempts to push a narrative that doesn't exist since your so big on what the words mean at face value and not reading the intent behind them.