Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

[thamrick]

The information is much less the story than the way you guys acted when being pressured to peek.

So Durga's just an idiot, and I think Bozo is too, but anyone else who tries to spin this into not looking at anyone but the two of us today (and then probably tomorrow) is suspect as fuck. We've got three more mislynches here, and wasting them all on what at the end of the day amounts to mechanical policy is going to leave us in a bad position.

We lynched scum yesterday, normally a treasure trove of information, and it's barely being analyzed. There's obvious fucking scum in xorxes right now, and there are plenty of other good candidates. Don't let this day be pigeonholed.

You can't have it both ways ghuggy. Asking for reactions then criticizing discussion about you and Foxy.

Anyways, I agree and would hardly consider you and Foxy being the only lynch candidates.

I'm still very concerned that we haven't heard from nesdunk since page 36. Xorxes is definitely a suspect.

I've reread BB. It's hard af to make anything from him. I'm confident he open wolfed with his scummates at some point. I'm confident there's a ton of misdirection in it. I've already said the interaction with nesdunk at the start of D2 feels weird to me. What have you taken from rereading BB?

[ghug]

Firstly, the fact that you seem to *know* foxy is a townie is really off putting and if you're town you should stop with that bs

Second, no one's fucking spinning it into the two of you, it was obviously pressure votes because you two were being dumb

Thirdly, why don't you analyze it instead of being angry that there are 3 votes on you for being scummy

I don't know Fox is a townie. I do see legitimate town motivation in his actions, them being largely the same as mine, and the rest of you don't, which to me warrants defending him. I will continue to do so.

Thamrick very directly did try to spin it into the two of us. Xorxes spent all that time discussing mechanics of it without voting and then gladly jumped on only when asked. Ezio, bo, and rd were also very lazy in jumping on just to fuel this fire (I'll give the biggest pass to bo out of the three of them because he's busy). The only people who looked legitimately motivated to help town here are you and bozo, and I already said as much, so don't claim I'm not analyzing.


@Tham, I think more useful than looking at brain's words is looking at people's reactions to everything. If there is anything useful in what brain said, it's probably early in the day. I don't have a answer yet because we got sidetracked by this bullshit, but I intend to look more closely later.

[Foxcastle]

Looking back over BB...

The illusionist gunshot "reads like scum wants us to think ezio is a mislynch. which makes it seem like they wanna drive votes onto the next highest scumread person, (you xorxes)". Is this BB trying to protect Xorxes?

A quick summary of BB's reads/progressions:

He read Bo_sox as town throughout (reads on pp. 20, 27, 29, 30) as well as Reedeer (pp. 28, 35). Those were the only two he consistently read as town.

Consistent scum reads include: nesdunk (pp. 20, 22, 27), xorxes (pp. 20, 22, 25, 27), snowy (pp. 20, 27), yavuz (pp. 20, 22, 225, 27, 28, 30, 35).

Durga went from Town (p. 20) to a slight scum read (23) to town (27).

Ghug was town (20, 22), then scum to the end (pp. 23, 27, 30, 32).

Ezio was town (20) then null (27), then scum (28, 35).

Foxcastle was town (20, 27) then scum (29, 30), then null (32).

Tham was mostly town (20, 27, 32) then ended scum (35).

Rivera was null (20, 27) then scum (32).

Bozo was scum (25), then null (27), then town (34), then scum (34).

[thamrick]

Seems like pretty typical BB reads progression lol

What conclusions do you draw Foxy?

[Foxcastle]

I am also backing off my scumread of Ezio somewhat. He felt scummy because he's posting a lot more than in the previous two games I've played with him where he's basically lurked (until being shot). His switch on Jamiet struck me as scummy, because I didn't think Jamiet was scum and also because he didn't really explain it. It seemed opportunistic. But he seems to have dug into ghug some, and besides the jamiet vote, I don't have anything else against him.

Bozo is hard for me to read. He mostly just @'s people with questions and replies to their assertions, so I'm not getting much on him.

Nesdunk has vanished, so that's unhelpful.

[Foxcastle]

Seems like pretty typical BB reads progression lol

What conclusions do you draw Foxy?

Well, the amount he read some people is due to how much he was interacting with them. So Rivera and Reedeer are pretty low just because they're not around. But Durga also gets short shrift on the reads in either direction, and I wonder if it's because she's town and BB didn't want to get into a conflict with her over actual game stuff, as opposed to the conflict they got into over other stuff. Is that because he didn't want to fire up Town Durga, or didn't want to bus his scummate too hard? I don't know, but Durga is pretty townie these days...

Of his consistent scumreads, he pushed Yavuz real hard, possibly thinking Yavuz would have a harder time defending himself because he's yavuz. Snowy is dead. Nesdunk is new, and maybe if he were town, BB would have pushed him because he might stumble defending himself, but he's also been absent, so I don't know...

Xorxes gets pretty clear attention as a scumread. If BB was bussing a scummate in his reads, Xorxes seems like a good bet.

I'm not sure BB would consistently scumread his teammates. So that says maybe Reedeer and Bo_sox are town. Them gets pretty consistent town read, and only scumread at the desperate end...

In terms of sowing confusion to throw people off his scumteam, Bozo is the one he wandered around on the most, followed by myself.

Ghug and Ezio started out as town, and then progressed to scum. Possibly he was starting out townreading his team in case he managed to build some goodwill/trust with town; but then bussed them when things fell apart for him.

[thamrick]

I'm going back to ##VOTE nesdunk

We definitely need to hear more from him.

[Durga]

##vote xorxes

[Ezio]

Lol ok ##vote ghug. Yes we lynched scum yesterday, normally a treasure trove of information.

That person was brainbomb on d2 after he subbed in for maniac who was literally gone all of d1. We only lynched him because cop claimed un ccd with a guilty on him.

Would you like us to go through and analyze all of brainbombs entirely inconsistent reads to find it? If you think there's something to find, find it yourself. Don't make hints about things and leave others to do your work for you while you take credit.
Looks like foxcastle has your back though.

[ghug]

Don't make hints about things and leave others to do your work for you while you take credit.

When do you get so bogged down in rhetorical bullshit, Ezio? I've honestly never seen that from you as either alignment.

I'm being plenty up front about my own lack of looking on the subject. I just think it's looking worth doing, and I'm annoyed that we've spent a large chunk of the day on mechanical nonsense rather than actual scumhunting. What about any of that is scummy?

[bozotheclown]

@Foxcastle: Did you check your nametag last night also, or had you checked it previously?

[ghug]

Alright, some brain rereading:

I alluded to this briefly after brain flipped, but I've found the posts (p29-30 for reference).

Thamrick votes brain

##VOTE Brainbomb - this brainbomb has a different feel than the one I'm used to

This is the first vote brain receives. It doesn't seem all that substantial, but brain flips out.

And you have no idea why? Subbing into a game where were getting assjammed doesnt alarm you?

Ok, well im not losing another fucking game. If you have to kill me then fuck you

This is total BS by the way. Theres reasons you should know why this is BS

[a couple posts from Foxcastle]

Just let him think what he wants. Its personal

[tham questions the personal comment and notes that he subbed in too]

Just stop

Brain subsequently made a bullshit cop claim with an inno scan on bo.

Is brain pissed at his bussing teammate or what? This actually kinda makes me lean more town on Tham. Brain tends to be pretty cool with bussing, but he gets very sensitive when he feels he's under legitimate pressure. Tham, do you have any idea why brain thought your vote was personal?

Also of note here is Fox being pretty hedgy when tham votes brain:

I can't read Brainbomb that well. I agree that he's coming off differently from previous games, but that doesn't mean he's scum.

However, he's already the second highest poster after less than 24 hours, so... I'd say his pass for subbing in is pretty much used up.

rd doesn't seem to believe brain's cop claim, but says he won't lynch him un-CCed.


Yavuz claims his guilty scan immediately following this interaction. Tham claims cop with a guilty on brain as well (tham were you just trying to cover for yavuz or be silly or what?). Durga voted brain once yavuz confirmed he was really claiming cop, but called tham scummy for his shit and said that the yavuz claim seemed fake. More town points for her. Bozo voted brain pretty quick after brian retracted his claim, which seems pretty NAI for Bozo. Then he starts thinking out loud a bunch, which is one of the main reasons I've been townreading him heavily. bo advocated for lynching outside of brain so that the lynch would be informative, which seems too fucking weird for scum to do with their teammate caught. Town points there as well. Ezio drops in and votes brian without comment (Ezio, why no urging to hammer or anything?).

Brain starts talking again, quite a lot, I'm ready to dismiss everything he says from this point on entirely as a combination of WIFOM and an attempt to overwhelm any attempts at other discussion. The lynch is pretty much assured from this point on. Everyone who shows up votes for him. Nobody (except brain) votes end until Durga and I do though, which was lame of all of you. There's an additional pause before a big group of people vote end in quick succession (tham, yav, fox, xorx, bozo in order) and then the phase is over.


CONCLUSIONS:
People who come out looking townie: Durga, bozo, bo, tham
People who don't: Fox, xorxes, Ezio, kind of rd
Not much to be gleaned: reedeer, nesdunk

[thamrick]

@ghug - no clue why Brain flipped out after my vote. It's what sealed my scumread of him before the Yav claim. I'd consider us friends outside of the game. We talked a good bit during the Sci-Fi sim he ran and after. So maybe he was just mad that I made a good gut read of him. Beyond that, I couldn't tell ya.

I was trying to give cover for Yav but admittedly I didn't do a very good job of it. I was annoyed that he openly claimed cop, especially when Brain was already receiving some pressure and probably would've been a viable lynch.

[thamrick]

I don't really follow why you're giving Durga town points for voting Brain after Yav confirmed he was claiming cop and for not believing mine or Yav's claims.

[Foxcastle]

@Foxcastle: Did you check your nametag last night also, or had you checked it previously?

Oh, I have poor impulse control and peeked when game started.

I thought about trying to crumb cop (asking BB who he would cop scan, referring to them as badges instead of tags once at EON) in the hopes that if scum picked up on it they might RB me and thus inherit DD. But Yavuz's claim pretty much threw project that off, and I was being too optimistic that scum would risk touching anyone who might be DD.

But now I have to go out into a snowstorm, so won't be active for a bit.

[Durga]

I don't really follow why you're giving Durga town points for voting Brain after Yav confirmed he was claiming cop and for not believing mine or Yav's claims.

Because if I were scum I'd know its true and not fight it, I imagine

[ghug]

I don't really follow why you're giving Durga town points for voting Brain after Yav confirmed he was claiming cop and for not believing mine or Yav's claims.

It's easier for town to be wrong in those situations. Scum are going to immediately believe a guilty scan on their guilty teammate, and they're not going to want to draw attention to themselves by doubting what they know is going to be universally accepted in a few minutes anyway. She was, at least temporarily, wrong.

[ghug]

@Foxcastle: Did you check your nametag last night also, or had you checked it previously?

Oh, I have poor impulse control and peeked when game started.

I thought about trying to crumb cop (asking BB who he would cop scan, referring to them as badges instead of tags once at EON) in the hopes that if scum picked up on it they might RB me and thus inherit DD. But Yavuz's claim pretty much threw project that off, and I was being too optimistic that scum would risk touching anyone who might be DD.

But now I have to go out into a snowstorm, so won't be active for a bit.

You... knew you were DD the whole time and didn't tell us?


For real, if anyone else has peeked, they should tell us when they did and what they learned immediately. There's no reason to hide that once you know.

Also please no more peeking yet. The bo clear is wasted if it happens now, and I think a mass peek is better if we all do it at the same time (though we don't have that many people visiting anymore, so it doesn't matter that much).

[thamrick]

@Foxcastle: Did you check your nametag last night also, or had you checked it previously?

Oh, I have poor impulse control and peeked when game started.

I thought about trying to crumb cop (asking BB who he would cop scan, referring to them as badges instead of tags once at EON) in the hopes that if scum picked up on it they might RB me and thus inherit DD. But Yavuz's claim pretty much threw project that off, and I was being too optimistic that scum would risk touching anyone who might be DD.

But now I have to go out into a snowstorm, so won't be active for a bit.

You... knew you were DD the whole time and didn't tell us?


For real, if anyone else has peeked, they should tell us when they did and what they learned immediately. There's no reason to hide that once you know.

Also please no more peeking yet. The bo clear is wasted if it happens now, and I think a mass peek is better if we all do it at the same time (though we don't have that many people visiting anymore, so it doesn't matter that much).

Is claiming peeks actually a good play here? CaptainMeme is still out there. Scum could want that tag. Plus if you claim a non-BO_SOX tag, it tells scum it's safe to NK you without risk of picking up the tag. This is all assuming that scum haven't peeked already, which is possibly a poor assumption.

[thamrick]

I also find it weird that Foxy says he knew he was DD the whole time. Especially when he claimed his instinct was to vote no-lynch to avoid confusing town.