M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Hellenic Riot]

I don't see why kgray being RB'd is at all damning for rivera. N1, sure, that makes sense. But N3?

If rivera was that worried you were going to go after him and might be cop... Why wouldn't he just kill you?

You don't see how me being RB'd after I said Rivera is 100% getting my vote the next day is damning to Rivera?

And idk why I'm not dead. Maybe they didn't have enough votes to change the kill target? And besides, if they kill me and I flip cop Rivera is dead today.

If you were town you should assume that they left me alive so today could be you vs Vecna

Not particularly, no. Perhaps because I knew why you said it in advance, but there's no guarantee that the scum changed their roleblock based on your message (and if I were scum and saw a message like that without context, I'd assume it was NK-Bait anyway).

If they thought it was legit, there'd be no reason whatsoever to not kill you so you couldn't out your other reports - Who cares about one guilty that is *definitely* going to be outed if you're actually still alive. So I either view that as something that makes rdrivera look extremely town, or something the scum didn't react to at all.

[Chaqa]

Why?

I townread him and it doesn't provide any information about wagons as a whole.

And yet you were willing to use the possibility of scum!Rivera to get your boatman wagon going again. Cool.

No.

I was pointing out that if you believe this as a possibility, it should also make you more open to the TFB being saved theory. Otherwise why does scum!rdr move to celaph there?

I need to start going into Eden-levels of excruciating detail I guess

[DemonRHK]

I don't see why kgray being RB'd is at all damning for rivera. N1, sure, that makes sense. But N3?

If rivera was that worried you were going to go after him and might be cop... Why wouldn't he just kill you?

After the effect keeping a cop in doubt did in M70, plus the fact kgray was already allegedly rb'd N2, makes no additional clears. It makes sense to purma rb one target and kill clears or hunt in a second pool. The fact you of all people can't allegedly see it is puzzling.

[Hellenic Riot]

Like I do not fundamentally understand how someone sees someone softing a guilty and assumes that you should not kill the person softing it in order to protect the target... That's utterly backward. You can argue your way out of a soft (particularly given rdrivera would be blatantly aware of the OOG reasoning). You cannot argue your way out of a cop claiming a guilty on you.

[kgray]

Also don't forget Damo fell for my Bofa joke earlier and earnestly thought I had a guilty on Bona. scum!Damo probably doesn't do that (unless maybe it's Damo AND Bona?)

You said you have an inno on bona. Scum!Damo could totally fall for that if bona is town.

I said I had something on *bofa*

Was it an inno? That’s less fun, oh well

Yes I got your terrible joke, I'm saying that clearly damo thought you meant bona and clearly he believed it. Doesn't at all prevent damo from being scum unless bona is non-GF scum.

[kgray]

I townread him and it doesn't provide any information about wagons as a whole.

And yet you were willing to use the possibility of scum!Rivera to get your boatman wagon going again. Cool.

No.

I was pointing out that if you believe this as a possibility, it should also make you more open to the TFB being saved theory. Otherwise why does scum!rdr move to celaph there?

I need to start going into Eden-levels of excruciating detail I guess

Why wouldn't Rivera move to Celaph for credit? Don't be a dick.

[kgray]

Like I do not fundamentally understand how someone sees someone softing a guilty and assumes that you should not kill the person softing it in order to protect the target... That's utterly backward. You can argue your way out of a soft (particularly given rdrivera would be blatantly aware of the OOG reasoning). You cannot argue your way out of a cop claiming a guilty on you.

Yes and that's why my theory was that the RB'er didn't know it was OOG reasoning.... And the further comment that maybe the RB'er left before Rivera was online. And they didn't have the votes to change the NK target.

[Chaqa]

And yet you were willing to use the possibility of scum!Rivera to get your boatman wagon going again. Cool.

No.

I was pointing out that if you believe this as a possibility, it should also make you more open to the TFB being saved theory. Otherwise why does scum!rdr move to celaph there?

I need to start going into Eden-levels of excruciating detail I guess

Why wouldn't Rivera move to Celaph for credit? Don't be a dick.

I wasn’t being a dick?

I feel like every single post I make gets misinterpreted. My conclusion is I need to be more specific.

[kgray]

No.

I was pointing out that if you believe this as a possibility, it should also make you more open to the TFB being saved theory. Otherwise why does scum!rdr move to celaph there?

I need to start going into Eden-levels of excruciating detail I guess

Why wouldn't Rivera move to Celaph for credit? Don't be a dick.

I wasn’t being a dick?

I feel like every single post I make gets misinterpreted. My conclusion is I need to be more specific.

Oh. Yeah I misinterpreted your Eden comment lmao

Yeah, okay, if Rivera flips scum then it's more likely boatman was being saved. I think Rivera is more sus then boatman though, and I don't like info flips, so at this point I wouldn't vote boatman before Rivera.

[Hellenic Riot]

Like I do not fundamentally understand how someone sees someone softing a guilty and assumes that you should not kill the person softing it in order to protect the target... That's utterly backward. You can argue your way out of a soft (particularly given rdrivera would be blatantly aware of the OOG reasoning). You cannot argue your way out of a cop claiming a guilty on you.

Yes and that's why my theory was that the RB'er didn't know it was OOG reasoning.... And the further comment that maybe the RB'er left before Rivera was online. And they didn't have the votes to change the NK target.

Have we gone back to majority voting? Last time I checked anyone could override on NK's. And that six hour window is an awful long time to 'not have time to change'. Particularly given that Maniac, Vecna, and Jamie were the only people not to post in the game thread in said window.

This theory has more holes than a lump of Swiss cheese

[Chaqa]

Like I do not fundamentally understand how someone sees someone softing a guilty and assumes that you should not kill the person softing it in order to protect the target... That's utterly backward. You can argue your way out of a soft (particularly given rdrivera would be blatantly aware of the OOG reasoning). You cannot argue your way out of a cop claiming a guilty on you.

Yes and that's why my theory was that the RB'er didn't know it was OOG reasoning.... And the further comment that maybe the RB'er left before Rivera was online. And they didn't have the votes to change the NK target.

Have we gone back to majority voting? Last time I checked anyone could override on NK's. And that six hour window is an awful long time to 'not have time to change'. Particularly given that Maniac, Vecna, and Jamie were the only people not to post in the game thread in said window.

This theory has more holes than a lump of Swiss cheese

There’s generally little uniformity to how the mafia kills are handled.

Anyone know what system Tom is using?

[kgray]

Like I do not fundamentally understand how someone sees someone softing a guilty and assumes that you should not kill the person softing it in order to protect the target... That's utterly backward. You can argue your way out of a soft (particularly given rdrivera would be blatantly aware of the OOG reasoning). You cannot argue your way out of a cop claiming a guilty on you.

Yes and that's why my theory was that the RB'er didn't know it was OOG reasoning.... And the further comment that maybe the RB'er left before Rivera was online. And they didn't have the votes to change the NK target.

Have we gone back to majority voting? Last time I checked anyone could override on NK's. And that six hour window is an awful long time to 'not have time to change'. Particularly given that Maniac, Vecna, and Jamie were the only people not to post in the game thread in said window.

This theory has more holes than a lump of Swiss cheese

I don't know how scum are voting, but Rivera only posted in the thread about an hour before EON. It wasn't necessarily a 6-hour window.

[Hellenic Riot]

Rivera posted with 1:06 to go at night.

After that, Myself, Donny, you, RHK, and Bob all posted (plus Lamp).

Chaqa and ghug posted immediately after the daystart, and given ghug never leaves you can safely assume he was around before the deadline. TFB & Bona turned up within 15 minutes of the phase change too.

So you're once again looking at basically Vecna-Jamie-Maniac, plus damo & goldie, as the people who might not have been able to react even if all the other requirements were met.

[kgray]

Rivera posted with 1:06 to go at night.

After that, Myself, Donny, you, RHK, and Bob all posted (plus Lamp).

Chaqa and ghug posted immediately after the daystart, and given ghug never leaves you can safely assume he was around before the deadline. TFB & Bona turned up within 15 minutes of the phase change too.

So you're once again looking at basically Vecna-Jamie-Maniac, plus damo & goldie, as the people who might not have been able to react even if all the other requirements were met.

Great, and I did say I thought damo was the likely RB'er, so I don't know why you have such a problem with this. Seems overly defensive to me.

[Hellenic Riot]

(And again, that's operating on an assumption they weren't lurking the thread - A reasonable assumption in the case of the Europeans, not so much in the case of goldie).

[kgray]

Okay then HR you explain why I was RB'd last night.

[Hellenic Riot]

Okay then HR you explain why I was RB'd last night.

I have no idea; and I don't particularly care to theorise on night wifom of any variety.

[kgray]

Okay then HR you explain why I was RB'd last night.

I have no idea; and I don't particularly care to theorise on night wifom of any variety.

That's ridiculous. If you believe I was RB'd twice in a row then you have to believe they think I'm the cop, and there has to be a reason they'd think that.

[Hellenic Riot]

Rivera posted with 1:06 to go at night.

After that, Myself, Donny, you, RHK, and Bob all posted (plus Lamp).

Chaqa and ghug posted immediately after the daystart, and given ghug never leaves you can safely assume he was around before the deadline. TFB & Bona turned up within 15 minutes of the phase change too.

So you're once again looking at basically Vecna-Jamie-Maniac, plus damo & goldie, as the people who might not have been able to react even if all the other requirements were met.

Great, and I did say I thought damo was the likely RB'er, so I don't know why you have such a problem with this. Seems overly defensive to me.

Isn't your theory that the scum team is Rivera, Me, and Damo? Because clearly there's enough votes to override the RB *regardless* of who it is doing it in said scenario.

Now if you're leaping to the conclusion that Tom refuses to allow people to redirect other scum members actions, you're also reliant entirely on me being the Godfather for the rest of this to fit together. And that, as the godfather, not only did I jump off of a teammate near the end of a day for reasons that are beyond comprehension, but also that I made an aggressive push against Goldie that was almost certain to end in a Me vs Him and get me as much attention as possible.

Which, to quote the great Hellenic Riot, is not a case. It's garbage.

[Chaqa]

Okay then HR you explain why I was RB'd last night.

I have no idea; and I don't particularly care to theorise on night wifom of any variety.

That's ridiculous. If you believe I was RB'd twice in a row then you have to believe they think I'm the cop, and there has to be a reason they'd think that.

Maybe they don’t really have any idea, so they’re continuing to roleblock you to limit potential new town clears?