M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

If you have a game you want to play on the forum, you can do so here.
Forum rules
This is an area for forum games. Please note that to support mafia games players cannot edit their own posts in this forum. Off Topic threads will be relocated or deleted. Issues taking place in forum games should be dealt with by respective game GMs and escalated to the moderators only if absolutely necessary.
Message
Author
Hellenic Riot
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Karma: 1333
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3941 Post by Hellenic Riot » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:58 pm

I'm very confused how anyone can scumread DemonRHK after the Durga flip - He was the person she defaulted to making lazy pushes on pretty much consistently through the whole game, and I find it very hard to believe they were trash tier busses.
2

Hellenic Riot
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Karma: 1333
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3942 Post by Hellenic Riot » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:06 pm

Strong Town:
BobMcBob
Chaqa
DemonRHK

Town:
ghug
Jamie (Certain town if Vecna is town. The only way I can see Jamie as scum at this point is if the reason Durga tried to flashwagon him was her being annoyed at him for hardcore bussing Fox off the bat)

Slight Town:
Donny Dude
Maniac
TheFlyingBoat

Null:
BusinessLamp

Slight Scum:
kgray
rdrivera

Scum:
damo666
Vecna
Bonatogether

Strong Scum:
goldfinger0303
2

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29455
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18257
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3943 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:11 pm

@HR: Welcome back. You are widely scumread. Any remarks about that?
2
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

kgray
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 7667
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:34 pm
Karma: 4804
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3944 Post by kgray » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:17 pm

Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:06 pm
Slight Scum:
kgray
wtf is this?
2

Hellenic Riot
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Karma: 1333
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3945 Post by Hellenic Riot » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:18 pm

Not really any big VCA that can be done on Durga given her surrender, so the only interesting votes from D3 to look at are all early on before that was clearly what she was doing.

As such, I think there's only really 2.5 votes that can be somewhat viewed as attempts to alleviate pressure on Durga:

41:39 - goldfinger changes from me to Vecna (making it 3 Vecna, 2 Durga, 1 HR). Given the strength of his scumread on me, it was quite odd to change off of me so fast, and gives credence to the possibility that Vecna was an attempt at a low resistant wagon to save Durga (I'm many things, but low-resistance ain't one of them).

29:37 - damo switches from Durga to Business Lamp
29:06 - damo switches from BusinessLamp to Vecna (4 Vecna, 4 Durga, 3 HR)

Counting this as one vote, it's an interesting way to shift off of Durga and onto the only plausible easy counterwagon without doing it directly. Given how BLamp was blatantly never going to the vote, that part is just weird, and this again raises the possibility of Vecna being an 'easy' rescue wagon.
2

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29455
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18257
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3946 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:20 pm

I'm taking another look at Goldfinger as per Ghug's demands.

First, I'm looking for key interactions with Durga:

Night 1:
On Page 89 Goldfinger repeatedly praised Durga and said she was doing a lot of things he liked and supported. Then he also listed her as a null read, an "enigma".

Night 2:
Goldfinger was now "feeling pretty bad" about Durga following EoD2.

Day 3:
He voted for her (after earlier voting HR and Vecna) and was on the wagon until the end.

Next, Durga-on-Gold interactions:

Night 1:
Durga was pleased that Goldfinger had shown up.

Day 2:
Durga insisted she would not vote for Goldfinger.

And that's all.

Coming up: Goldfinger and Celaph.
2
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

Hellenic Riot
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Karma: 1333
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3947 Post by Hellenic Riot » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:25 pm

kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:17 pm
Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:06 pm
Slight Scum:
kgray
wtf is this?
Easing off on one scumread is forgivable; but given you scumread Durga pretty early on and eased off her in the exact same way the consideration that you might be scum has to be given some credence.

Also, I'm known to be susceptible to buddying, and you certainly did that.
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:11 pm
@HR: Welcome back. You are widely scumread. Any remarks about that?
Not particularly. I'm yet to hear an explanation about why I would sit on celaph the entire time he was the lead wagon and only get off him after that was no longer the case on D2, though.

I would accept the explanation that my TFB vote was a protection vote on Bob (Spoiler: It was. I was more concerned with keeping my top townread alive than with which of the two people I had moderate but not certain scumreads on died, and I only changed off celaph onto TFB when Bob was now the level second placed wagon there so I wanted to make the gap bigger), but given pretty much everyone has come around to my view that Bob is patent town, all I really see is a lot of people throwing a lazy scumread at my vote timing without actually making any attempt to delve into an explanation of why I'd do it as scum.

I also find ghug screaming Forced Theatre at me vs goldie to be pretty pisspoor, because I think if there's one thing that is consistent in my scumplay it's utter disdain for scum theatre. And doing a totally stupid crossbus on Goldie while one teammate is dead (celaph) and yet another is widely scumread by literally everyone (Durga) and thus likely to die is also some tragically shite scum play. ghug seems to simultaneously be saying I'm a great scum player and also that I'm utterly terrible at it, which is mildly offensive.
2

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29455
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18257
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3948 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:28 pm

Night 1:
On Page 89 Goldfinger criticises Celaph's contribution thus far, as part of his wall-post about D1 wagons. Declares Celaph a null who has made "zero impression" on him.

Day 2:
P.124 - Goldfinger now describes Celaph (who is a wagon) as "better" [than on D1, presumably] and says he has no opinion on the wagon.

P.140 - Votes Celaph "to please Ghug".

P.151 - Now says he doesn't have any strong views on Celaph and moves off, because Ghug did.

P.153 - Does not like the Celaph wagon and warns people to keep off it (and Vecna's wagon too).


Night 2 (after Celaph flipped):
Reminds people he was null-reading Celaph.
Has a massive argument with Hellenic Riot about his attitude to the Celaph wagon - it's on Page 174 and is worth reading if you're trying to work out how you feel about HR and Gold.


Now for Celaph's comments about Goldfinger:

Day 2:
P.113. Celaph says "town vibes" in response to Goldfinger's catch-up posts.

P.113. Asks Goldfinger's read on Chaqa.

P.114. Agrees with Goldfinger's coments about Kgray being "wishy washy".

P.126. Calls Goldfinger "towny" again.

That's all.
2
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

kgray
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 7667
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:34 pm
Karma: 4804
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3949 Post by kgray » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:35 pm

Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:25 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:17 pm
Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:06 pm
Slight Scum:
kgray
wtf is this?
Easing off on one scumread is forgivable; but given you scumread Durga pretty early on and eased off her in the exact same way the consideration that you might be scum has to be given some credence.

Also, I'm known to be susceptible to buddying, and you certainly did that.
Eased off? Is that a joke? I switched from Durga to my other scumread who was also scum. And the next day I went back to Durga immediately. You can see my name at the beginning of her wagon. And unlike you who just stuck your vote on celaph all day I actually pushed him and interacted with him to try to figure out his alignment.

I'd never do that to celaph and Durga and you know that for a fact.
2

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29455
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18257
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3950 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:37 pm

So on the basis of re-reading Goldfinger's interactions with the two dead scum:

- Durga hardly interacted with Goldfinger at all, but expressed that she did not want to vote for him.

- Celaph only mentioned Goldfinger a few times, but townread him on the occasions he was mentioned.

- Goldfinger initially praised Durga. However, he actually voted for Durga two times on D3. The first of those votes put the Durga wagon back into the lead over Vecna when Damo had tied it. The second of those votes (after a short spell voting for Chaqa) happened when Durga was becoming a runaway wagon.

- Goldfinger's inconsistent takes on Celaph are probably the most interesting thing to look at here.

@Ghug: Do you think that Scum!Goldfinger would bus Durga hard enough to make her the lead wagon in a tie with Vecna? Or could it be that Durga/Vecna was scum v scum and therefore Goldfinger just wanted credit for being on the one that would flip? What's your specific take on Goldfinger's two votes for Durga?

@Ghug: Do you still think that what we witnessed on page 174 was Scum!HR aggressively attacking Scum!Goldfinger over his inconsistent votes for Scum!Celaph? Any further comments in light of HR's response to this?

(Anyone else feel free to comment too)
2
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29455
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18257
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3951 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:41 pm

My own conclusion:

The interactions with Celaph and HR are puzzling, and the puzzle has even more nuance because Ghug, who is scumreading Goldfinger, is a participant in the Celaph vote interactions.

However I certainly cannot rule Goldfinger out as scum.

I would prefer to wagon Vecna tomorrow, and then possibly Hellenic Riot next. I am happy to add Goldfinger to the "possible scum" pile, but I think there are some un-answered questions.
2
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

Hellenic Riot
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Karma: 1333
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3952 Post by Hellenic Riot » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:41 pm

kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:35 pm
Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:25 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:17 pm


wtf is this?
Easing off on one scumread is forgivable; but given you scumread Durga pretty early on and eased off her in the exact same way the consideration that you might be scum has to be given some credence.

Also, I'm known to be susceptible to buddying, and you certainly did that.
Eased off? Is that a joke? I switched from Durga to my other scumread who was also scum. And the next day I went back to Durga immediately. You can see my name at the beginning of her wagon. And unlike you who just stuck your vote on celaph all day I actually pushed him and interacted with him to try to figure out his alignment.

I'd never do that to celaph and Durga and you know that for a fact.
You stayed on celaph for a mightily impressive one hour before voting Bob (bad) and only rejoined celaph when he had taken off without you - You're welcome. You then left both to go after TFB, and rallied people (including myself) to join you there. I'm not inclined to ascribe any of that as particularly townie behaviour, no matter how you wish to dress it up.
2

Hellenic Riot
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Karma: 1333
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3953 Post by Hellenic Riot » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:43 pm

Indeed if damo is scum, which I think is eminently plausible, then the timing of your switch back to celaph D2 when damo was a rising wagon looks even worse.
2

Hellenic Riot
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Karma: 1333
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3954 Post by Hellenic Riot » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:44 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:41 pm
My own conclusion:

The interactions with Celaph and HR are puzzling, and the puzzle has even more nuance because Ghug, who is scumreading Goldfinger, is a participant in the Celaph vote interactions.

However I certainly cannot rule Goldfinger out as scum.

I would prefer to wagon Vecna tomorrow, and then possibly Hellenic Riot next. I am happy to add Goldfinger to the "possible scum" pile, but I think there are some un-answered questions.
Do you have any responses or questions of your own to my response?
2

kgray
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 7667
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:34 pm
Karma: 4804
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3955 Post by kgray » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:56 pm

Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:41 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:35 pm
Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:25 pm

Easing off on one scumread is forgivable; but given you scumread Durga pretty early on and eased off her in the exact same way the consideration that you might be scum has to be given some credence.

Also, I'm known to be susceptible to buddying, and you certainly did that.
Eased off? Is that a joke? I switched from Durga to my other scumread who was also scum. And the next day I went back to Durga immediately. You can see my name at the beginning of her wagon. And unlike you who just stuck your vote on celaph all day I actually pushed him and interacted with him to try to figure out his alignment.

I'd never do that to celaph and Durga and you know that for a fact.
You stayed on celaph for a mightily impressive one hour before voting Bob (bad) and only rejoined celaph when he had taken off without you - You're welcome. You then left both to go after TFB, and rallied people (including myself) to join you there. I'm not inclined to ascribe any of that as particularly townie behaviour, no matter how you wish to dress it up.
Yeah as I said when I voted Bob I wanted to see his explanation of his reaction to ghug's fake RB claim. You didn't push celaph during any of that time you were voting him, I don't see why you think you get towncred from that. You can't blame me for you voting boatman. If you didn't think it was a better vote you shouldn't have moved.

But yeah, just ignore the part where I help get my two favorite people in this game killed despite them also being on my team. Sure.
2

Maniac
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 1813
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:20 am
Location: https://www.parliament.uk/
Karma: 1114
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3956 Post by Maniac » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:56 pm

BobMcBob wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:36 pm
Maniac wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:49 am
BobMcBob wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:39 am
The 4 remaining scum are all the non-posters this phase, game solved.
What? How many scum do you think there is?
Four
I think you’re playing a different game fella.
2

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29455
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18257
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3957 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:56 pm

BobMcBob wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:36 pm
Maniac wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:49 am
BobMcBob wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:39 am
The 4 remaining scum are all the non-posters this phase, game solved.
What? How many scum do you think there is?
Four
How many scum do you think there were to begin with, and how many have we killed so far?
2
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29455
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18257
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3958 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:59 pm

Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:44 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:41 pm
My own conclusion:

The interactions with Celaph and HR are puzzling, and the puzzle has even more nuance because Ghug, who is scumreading Goldfinger, is a participant in the Celaph vote interactions.

However I certainly cannot rule Goldfinger out as scum.

I would prefer to wagon Vecna tomorrow, and then possibly Hellenic Riot next. I am happy to add Goldfinger to the "possible scum" pile, but I think there are some un-answered questions.
Do you have any responses or questions of your own to my response?
I think your response is plausible.

Currently I have you both in my scum-pool, but that is not because I think, as Ghug appears to, that you and Goldfinger have been engaging in tremendous scum theatre. In fact I would rate it as relatively unlikely that you are *both* scum together. I just think it appears highly plausible that one of you is.

I have seen you aggressively go after people as town in exactly the way you did to Goldfinger, I must admit. On at least one occasion, it was me.

I remain of the view that we should flip Vecna first.
2
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

damo666
Posts: 16597
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:04 am
Location: London
Karma: 5524
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3959 Post by damo666 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:10 pm

I think we should flip Bona first but I doubt that will be the most popular view.
2

User avatar
Chaqa
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 13229
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:33 pm
Location: Allentown, PA, USA
Karma: 7985
Contact:

Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#3960 Post by Chaqa » Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:17 pm

Let’s see how the night goes and re-evaluate.

It’s hard to say whether Durga giving up means she just didn’t want to bother or if her team is in trouble. For those more familiar with her, is she more likely to give up like that when the rest of her team is well-covered, or under suspicion?
2

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aristocrat, Ribbel, Wattsthematter, wintergreen and 257 guests