M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[bozotheclown]

Why is Fluminator voting for Celaph?

The vote itself is the only time Fluminator makes any mention of Celaph, and it's a naked vote with no explanation.

This could be a low level defense of celaph, but Jamie was questioning everything Fluminator said.

[bozotheclown]

Why is Fluminator voting for Celaph?

The vote itself is the only time Fluminator makes any mention of Celaph, and it's a naked vote with no explanation.

Unless Celaph has changed his style a ton, this is not the Celaph I remember

When have you played with town!Celaph? Was it just his first game?

A not so low level attempt at discouraging a celaph vote.

[kgray]

I find it concerning that HR and kgray both started suspecting celaph during N1, spent the majority of D2 voting for him, then contributed to celaph almost avoiding the DK.

What’s concerning about it? I though celaph’s activity picked up D2 as I was pressuring him, and boatman was making baseless arguments against bona and I felt he was faking his reads. He seemed scummier to me at the time.

Part of it is that you did not seem to suspect celaph D1 for the same things you did N1, at which point celaph could have suggested bussing him.

Maybe, but I didn’t “suspect” celaph D1 because I wouldn’t have voted for him anyway because I was happy to be playing with him again. I don’t think he was very scumread N1 when I stated by scumread of him? Bob had been scumreading him D1 (and that’s what I meant by him voting celaph early, but not when celaph had traction D2, and also I think I remember Bob leaving celaph’s wagon D1 when it started to get some momentum) but otherwise he didn’t have much pressure so it wasn’t like I would have been bussing a lost cause.

[bozotheclown]

Guess I'll sheep flum ##vote celaph

@kgray how do you feel about tfb

Very neutral. And I've previously scumread him hard when he's been town, so that's not very encouraging.

Him jumping on fox's wagon looks very opportunistic but I like Fox's wagon so I'm conflicted.

I'd vote him with you and HR though. And not *just* to get you off celaph

I just feel like fox is such an easy miskill. I don't really remember celaph's meta and maybe he's just rusty but he's been pretty low key so far.

This looks good to me, I don't think celaph would be an obvious bus for Durga, and it has been my experience that Durga does not like to bus unless it is necessary. Even in M60 she held out fairly long in bussing summit.

[kgray]

Unless Celaph has changed his style a ton, this is not the Celaph I remember

When have you played with town!Celaph? Was it just his first game?

A not so low level attempt at discouraging a celaph vote.

Bozo I literally stated I refused to vote celaph on D1, you can save yourself the time looking for me defending him

[kgray]

I’m just glad town!bozo is back

[kgray]

I need to reread but that's not happening today. My initial thought is idk why hr does that as scum but I could be wrong. As for Bob, I was coming around on him and like I also got it wrong. Honestly maybe celaph was hella bussed. I'll take a look tomorrow but today I'm getting day drunk probably

Yo this sounds like a plan. Shine and Sake Saturday for all!

If I picked the town out of the Bob/Durga/HR trio I would say it's Durga. HR has given me off vibes like that alien/scum multi game and Bob has jus tbeen too conveniently in the wrong place for my taste. Like a bystander in electrical.

Still sus on damo. Vecna a little less. rdr pretty clear now. I think there is a deep cover still unless the scumteam is completely imploding.

Why sake? I thought you were a moscato fan.

Why less sus of vecna today?

[kgray]

I need to reread but that's not happening today. My initial thought is idk why hr does that as scum but I could be wrong. As for Bob, I was coming around on him and like I also got it wrong. Honestly maybe celaph was hella bussed. I'll take a look tomorrow but today I'm getting day drunk probably

Yo this sounds like a plan. Shine and Sake Saturday for all!

If I picked the town out of the Bob/Durga/HR trio I would say it's Durga. HR has given me off vibes like that alien/scum multi game and Bob has jus tbeen too conveniently in the wrong place for my taste. Like a bystander in electrical.

Still sus on damo. Vecna a little less. rdr pretty clear now. I think there is a deep cover still unless the scumteam is completely imploding.

Why sake? I thought you were a moscato fan.

Why less sus of vecna today?

Oh and Demon, what about HR’s vibes remind you of the alien game?

[Chaqa]

Kgray, can you explain a bit why you didn’t want to join the celaph wagon yesterday after how involved in it you had been previously?

[bozotheclown]

In summary, Bob, BusinessLamp, RHK, Donny, Durga, Jamie, Maniac, and rdrivera look less likely to be mafia based on their D1 interactions with celaph.

[bozotheclown]

In summary, Bob, BusinessLamp, RHK, Donny, Durga, Jamie, Maniac, and rdrivera look less likely to be mafia based on their D1 interactions with celaph.

From D2 I would add TFB, and since I am town, that leaves Bonatogether, Chaqa, damo, Vecna, ghug, goldfinger, HR, and kgray.

Chaqa, Vecna, and ghug all ended D2 voting for celaph, and I think they are all potential bussers.

damo and goldfinger were not online at EOD and ended on Bob. Maniac was also not online at EOD and ended on Bob, so I would add him to this category because celaph's interaction with Maniac was only marginal in pocketing potential.

HR and kgray are potential early celaph bussers who ending up almost preventing celaph's DK.

Bonatogether gets a category to himself. He aggressively tried to get TFB DKed (and therefore prevent celaph's DK).

[kgray]

Kgray, can you explain a bit why you didn’t want to join the celaph wagon yesterday after how involved in it you had been previously?

I did join it! I was on it most of the day. But I thought celaph's activity picked up and he seemed to be contributing more thoughts so I was doubting him. When his wagon came back all of a sudden near EOD I thought it was an attempt to save boatman (or bob or vecna, but tbh I was focused on boat being scummy at the time).

[kgray]

In summary, Bob, BusinessLamp, RHK, Donny, Durga, Jamie, Maniac, and rdrivera look less likely to be mafia based on their D1 interactions with celaph.

From D2 I would add TFB, and since I am town, that leaves Bonatogether, Chaqa, damo, Vecna, ghug, goldfinger, HR, and kgray.

Chaqa, Vecna, and ghug all ended D2 voting for celaph, and I think they are all potential bussers.

damo and goldfinger were not online at EOD and ended on Bob. Maniac was also not online at EOD and ended on Bob, so I would add him to this category because celaph's interaction with Maniac was only marginal in pocketing potential.

HR and kgray are potential early celaph bussers who ending up almost preventing celaph's DK.

Bonatogether gets a category to himself. He aggressively tried to get TFB DKed (and therefore prevent celaph's DK).

I feel like I should be bona's category. I told both you and HR to vote for boatman near EOD.

[Bonatogether]

What?

We are 100% certain that Celaph was scum. Celaph has died and the GM has revealed Celaph's alignment.

To rationally argue, now that we have this knowledge of Celaph's alignment, that TFB would have been the "better" kill, you would not only have to be 100% certain that TFB is scum, but you would also have to be certain that TFB is a Mafia PR.

How can you possibly be certain, at this point in time, that TFB is a Mafia PR?

celaph would have been killed later, but boat man is someone that no one wanted to vote and the wagon got traction only very slowly, which makes me think that scum did not prefer that wagon over celaph's

Nodoby wanted to vote for him apart from the 8 people who were all voting for him at one point.

Sure.

His wagon was very slow, and celaph's grew very quickly at EoD

[Bonatogether]

One could easily make the same argument about your insistence that we should not have killed Celaph even though Celaph has flipped scum.

i'm not saying killing celaph was bad, but killing boat man was the better move

HOW CAN YOU KNOW THIS?

I don't know/i], but under my current understanding of the game state, it is true. See earlier in this comment chain

[rdrivera2005]

Okay so celaph comes in, asks five questions (two to me), likes my read, and then dips. No real thoughts or anything given. It's exactly what I expect tbh, except the shading kgray bit.

Which is odd, because why call out that of all things, and also it requires some considerable effort or close attention to actually realise that kgray had shaded chaqa in two earlier comments. Why pay so much attention to that and... basically nothing else? Certainly something to keep an eye on.

This does not seem like bussing.

Yep, I was also doing some reading of the pages I just didn't read on both D1 and D2 and Bob looks a lot more towny after Celaph's flip.

[Bonatogether]

In summary, Bob, BusinessLamp, RHK, Donny, Durga, Jamie, Maniac, and rdrivera look less likely to be mafia based on their D1 interactions with celaph.

From D2 I would add TFB, and since I am town, that leaves Bonatogether, Chaqa, damo, Vecna, ghug, goldfinger, HR, and kgray.

Chaqa, Vecna, and ghug all ended D2 voting for celaph, and I think they are all potential bussers.

damo and goldfinger were not online at EOD and ended on Bob. Maniac was also not online at EOD and ended on Bob, so I would add him to this category because celaph's interaction with Maniac was only marginal in pocketing potential.

HR and kgray are potential early celaph bussers who ending up almost preventing celaph's DK.

Bonatogether gets a category to himself. He aggressively tried to get TFB DKed (and therefore prevent celaph's DK).

notably i hard-scumread both in the leadup to EoD

[Bonatogether]

In summary, Bob, BusinessLamp, RHK, Donny, Durga, Jamie, Maniac, and rdrivera look less likely to be mafia based on their D1 interactions with celaph.

From D2 I would add TFB, and since I am town, that leaves Bonatogether, Chaqa, damo, Vecna, ghug, goldfinger, HR, and kgray.

Chaqa, Vecna, and ghug all ended D2 voting for celaph, and I think they are all potential bussers.

damo and goldfinger were not online at EOD and ended on Bob. Maniac was also not online at EOD and ended on Bob, so I would add him to this category because celaph's interaction with Maniac was only marginal in pocketing potential.

HR and kgray are potential early celaph bussers who ending up almost preventing celaph's DK.

Bonatogether gets a category to himself. He aggressively tried to get TFB DKed (and therefore prevent celaph's DK).

I feel like I should be bona's category. I told both you and HR to vote for boatman near EOD.

no, i'm the most special so i get my own category >:(

[Chaqa]

In summary, Bob, BusinessLamp, RHK, Donny, Durga, Jamie, Maniac, and rdrivera look less likely to be mafia based on their D1 interactions with celaph.

From D2 I would add TFB, and since I am town, that leaves Bonatogether, Chaqa, damo, Vecna, ghug, goldfinger, HR, and kgray.

Chaqa, Vecna, and ghug all ended D2 voting for celaph, and I think they are all potential bussers.

damo and goldfinger were not online at EOD and ended on Bob. Maniac was also not online at EOD and ended on Bob, so I would add him to this category because celaph's interaction with Maniac was only marginal in pocketing potential.

HR and kgray are potential early celaph bussers who ending up almost preventing celaph's DK.

Bonatogether gets a category to himself. He aggressively tried to get TFB DKed (and therefore prevent celaph's DK).

I’m not sure it makes sense for any of the celaph voters to be bussers besides maybe TFB and Vecna. It took every single person on the wagon to make it happen, so it seems like a lower-likelihood bussing situation. If any of us hadn’t wound up there, TFB would have died.

If TFB is also scum, then a lot of things change, though.

[bozotheclown]

In summary, Bob, BusinessLamp, RHK, Donny, Durga, Jamie, Maniac, and rdrivera look less likely to be mafia based on their D1 interactions with celaph.

From D2 I would add TFB, and since I am town, that leaves Bonatogether, Chaqa, damo, Vecna, ghug, goldfinger, HR, and kgray.

Chaqa, Vecna, and ghug all ended D2 voting for celaph, and I think they are all potential bussers.

damo and goldfinger were not online at EOD and ended on Bob. Maniac was also not online at EOD and ended on Bob, so I would add him to this category because celaph's interaction with Maniac was only marginal in pocketing potential.

HR and kgray are potential early celaph bussers who ending up almost preventing celaph's DK.

Bonatogether gets a category to himself. He aggressively tried to get TFB DKed (and therefore prevent celaph's DK).

damo placed a number of votes between D1 ands D2 where celaph was a wagon yet had almost no interaction with celaph and never voted for him.

Vecna's vote for celaph could be a bus, celaph didn't seem to react to it.

It does not seem like the mafia would fake a disagreement about RB claims, so I doubt Chaqa and goldfinger are both mafia.

celaph seemed to be trying to persuade kgray more than I would expect from mafia teammates.

Despite moving his vote off of celaph more than once, ghug would have had to been bussing celaph fairly hard as mafia.

Maniac has posted so little that there is not much to make a read of him.

A damo/HR/Maniac/Vecna mafia seems possible with ghug and one one of Chaqa/goldfinger as alternates.