M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

Having just read the set up and rules there is no obligation to vote that I can find. Wierd.

@GM please verify

GM NOTE:

This is correct. There is an obligation to meaningfully participate, but no obligation to vote.

wtf. who decides what's meaningful then?

[goldfinger0303]

Goldfinger time!
Water problems D1, he gets a pass.
Almost immediately comes back with a huge post which restates a lot of events and not much else. There's a bunch of reads at the beginning. The post is fine. Then a post with reads later, which is also fine. Gold finger completely forgetting I was a wagon, especially after reading through all of the EoD, is rather strange. He does not update his case on HR as a result.

Then goldie starts talking about DL8 and roleblocks... He says that scum would likely be roleblocking their kill target, which throws shade on Chaqa. He also states that scum might have killed DL8 because of something he mentioned offhand in his wall post. "DL was for sure scum sniping for PRs" is a very odd thing to say, and why would you come to that conclusion? And who would've decided that DL8 was a good PR snipe except goldie? He later pulls up three posts where people mention DL8, but none of them suggest that his activity is unusual for him. Which is what goldie states they are. This whole thing feels... off. Combine this with the fact that it has been dredged up that goldie has soft-gloated like this before and it looks worse again.

If he does flip scum, I think Chaqa is pretty much as good as clear. And he also strangely shades the Fox/Vecna wagon for being predicated on stuff in the first half of D1, which could be another connection.

I expected to come out of this scumreading goldie, but darn, I didn't remember the roleblock thing being so bad. I honestly like a ##vote goldie to see if we can get a wagon going.

Bob, for someone who draws the (somewhat correct, I suppose..) conclusion that Chaqa would be semi-clear if I flip scum, how are you not understanding my statement of "DL was the scum team sniping for PRs"?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you may have never been scum before, NK discussions roughly break down into 3 reasons 1) Someone is so obviously town (hard or soft clear) that they need to go. DL obviously did not fit this 2) This person might be a PR, but even if they're not they're a super scary town player, so let's kill them. Very typical N1 behavior, and you often see people like HR getting killed this way. And xorxes. DL is not one to inspire fear 3) Genuine belief someone is a PR.

Why did you expect to come out of it scumreading me though? That sounds like you went into the re-read looking for evidence to back up a scumread that would be believable. Honestly with that last paragraph, the whole post reeks something terrible.

##Vote Bob. Still willing to switch to my other votes, but holy shit how has nobody else caught that? For emphasis again.

I expected to come out of this scumreading goldie

[Vecna]

@Chaqa: I would actually like to read your answer to the question I asked about town!Vecna framing you.

Were you joking?

Or when you said you didn't like the Vecna wagon, was that actually a joke?

Apparently a lot of your posts are jokes but I can't always tell.

I was joking, yes. I have a mild town read on Vecna, actually.

Most of the other jokes you quoted are serious, though.

It just dawned on me that this shit you and ghug are doing is probably a very good reactiontest.

[Vecna]

I feel like Jamie has been a lot better at picking up on context lately so this game feels odd because he's reading everything as literal

I sometimes doubt whether jamiet could pick up on the context of the average porno

[Jamiet99uk]

I feel like Jamie has been a lot better at picking up on context lately so this game feels odd because he's reading everything as literal

Right now I'm treating Jamiet as a geriatric uncle. Pretty sure his heart is in the right place, but don't really pay too much mind to the words coming from their mouth. Liable to flip between going on rants about petty things, or just kinda sit there and take a nap.

Ehhh, my nephew, so disrespectful. No manners. No respect for his old uncle J.

[Jamiet99uk]

I feel like Jamie has been a lot better at picking up on context lately so this game feels odd because he's reading everything as literal

I sometimes doubt whether jamiet could pick up on the context of the average porno

I assure you, I have watched a lot of very average pornography.

[Jamiet99uk]

If scum roleblocked town!Chaqa so that they could push for his miskill isn't it strange that nobody is voting for Chaqa?

Back to the drawing board on that theory, perhaps?

I haven't thought about the theory in like two days, so I don't know why you're acting like it's relevant.

Two days?

The post in question was made by you during the current phase.

How could you have been thinking about a theory involving your roleblock, before you were roleblocked?

Is that a scum slip?

[Vecna]

Demon again has the agitated tone he often has as scum.

I had the opposite reaction, this reminds me of when he was a mason with me and started getting pretty aggressive in the thread on D2. When I was scum with him later he didn't get aggro, iirc

Are you just trying to copy always disagreeing with everything I say, or do you have some snippets to actually back this up?

[kgray]

Demon again has the agitated tone he often has as scum.

I had the opposite reaction, this reminds me of when he was a mason with me and started getting pretty aggressive in the thread on D2. When I was scum with him later he didn't get aggro, iirc

Are you just trying to copy always disagreeing with everything I say, or do you have some snippets to actually back this up?

I literally just said my sources, and no, I'm not going to go find actual posts. The mason game was Jamie's alien game with two scumteams, and we were scum together in the one where you were the item person and gave me a vest before we NK'd you. You can go look through them if you care.

[Vecna]

##vote Celaph

Not a big fan of RHK, Ghug, and I guess not damo after all either (although I doubt he's scum with RHK). Kgray, Bozo and Durga were pretty unmemorable as well in the few bits and pieces ive seen.

Im pretty sure I have a fluffy pillow-cloud of townreads somewhere stored in my brain.

Im also wondering if I should be suspicious about the Chaqa RB thing, but even though he loves stupid shenanigans, I think he knows too well not too put himself in the limelight with those, because we've come to expect them off of him. It indeed smells a little like someone tried to frame him or they have some weird reason to think he might be a PR.

If Chaqa was scum he wouldnt allow himself to be roleblocked, but he'd volunteer someone else for it. File under dangerous deductions.

imo bozo's night phase was memorable. He was under some suspicion but seemed to me to be scumhunting in a normal town!bozo way, jumping around and following a few different leads.

How much have you read of the thread in making this comment vecna?

Scantilly little, like the first 20-30 pages, and a bunch of current stuff at different times.

Basing plenty on second hand information. itll have to do

[Hellenic Riot]

I would tend to think the reason I was roleblocked specifically is so that it pushes some people like Durga, HR, or ghug to push me and get me daykilled.

Tbh kinda seems like something scum!Bona might do

You think that scum!Bona roleblocked you so that scum!Hellenic Riot (who is voting for Celaph) or scum!Durga (who has been defending you) or scum!Ghug (who is voting for Hellenic Riot with you) could push for your miskill?

I was implying that players like them might push me as town due to the roleblock, and that Bona was someone I could see doing a play like that, but probably it's too contrived to be realistic.

Is there any particular reason you think I'd push you for claiming RB? I don't recall ever doing that to anyone. I just don't pay it any attention whatsoever.

[Durga]

You think that scum!Bona roleblocked you so that scum!Hellenic Riot (who is voting for Celaph) or scum!Durga (who has been defending you) or scum!Ghug (who is voting for Hellenic Riot with you) could push for your miskill?

I was implying that players like them might push me as town due to the roleblock, and that Bona was someone I could see doing a play like that, but probably it's too contrived to be realistic.

Is there any particular reason you think I'd push you for claiming RB? I don't recall ever doing that to anyone. I just don't pay it any attention whatsoever.

Nor do I

[Hellenic Riot]

He is in MY towncore. That is a group of people I will not vote for barring a scan or cc or something major like that.

i think you're just wrong

Fair enough that's your opinion. I think I'm right.

@Bozo

What's the correlation between someone saying "fair enough" in a game of webDip Mafia and that person being scum?

[ghug]

I feel like I've been slacking off today, and I don't really like the wagons, so I'm gonna take stock of my thoughts. 90% of this is for me, so read at your own peril.

People I don't want to kill today because I townread them (this is ordered, TFB):
Lamp
Bob
Chaqa
bozo
Donny
Maniac
kgray
RHK
Boat

People I don't want to kill today because they're null reads and more likely to be valuable to town than scum:
Durga
Damo

Other people (scummier at the bottom):
gold
Vecna
Bona
Jamie
Rd
HR
Celaph


Honestly this is better than I thought it'd be. The scum pool is all pretty clustered, and Durga should probably be sitting next to gold there too, but I don't want to do that to either of them. The town pool is comfortably large. Some relevant thoughts on individuals:

RHK - Like gold, and I guess maybe also Bob in this game, he tends to say things that are just kinda icky and make us want to scumread him, so that needs to be considered. His vote for boat at EoD was also really bad, but I can't see him doing the stupid data thing as town, and his reaction to the roleblock nonsense was nice. I think killing him today is a mistake.

Bob - Again, probably harming his own case by being abrasive, but the guy is willing to talk a lot, and I think the explanation of his reaction to my roleblock claim is a little too intricate for him to have faked it. I've come around a lot to the townread.

Vecna - Fox wasn't playing great, so I get not townreading the slot, and Vecna seems likely to be useless, so I get not wanting to give him time, but how is this really anyone's best scumread at this point? It's a big fat load of nothing (with a beautiful, balding, burgundy head).

Damo - I feel like I usually have a stronger read. I disliked him early, and he remains kinda useless, but in a way that doesn't really strike me as scummy

Jamie, Rd - Dudes have sucked today, though I guess we all have. Jamie feels like he's coasting on being widely townread and rd feels like he's retreated after pressure to let us all attack each other instead.

HR - I've agreed with enough of his posts today that I'm slightly less inclined to kill him, not he's good enough (at this pointless game we play on the internet, don't let your ego get ahead of you) that I'm not gonna let that affect my read too much.

Boat - Has gotten a lot worse and nearly leapfrogged Damo in Durga in my list above. Needs to shape up.

With RHK I presume you meant you can't seem him doing the weird data thing as scum?

I do like the Bob re-eval even though I don't hold the same confidence in it as you do.

With Foxna, I think you understate the issues with Foxcastle's case and I get the feeling you are trying to kill the wagon while also still maintaining cover in case he does flip scum. Don't like this

According to you, Damo is pretty easy to read eventually (justification proffered to keep him alive both when you were scum and town iirc even when he looks bad). When do you think Damo will out himself to you? What makes him just seem bad town instead of scum?

Jamie, rd. Sure

HR ??? What was the basis under which you wanted to kill him in the first place? Maybe I missed it when I was following along, but I don't recall much other than you finding it weird he was on at EoD?

Me - yeah, I've sucked today. Should be better over the weekend when I have more time.


Anyways, questions regarding the ordering (since I do appreciate you ordering it), what makes you have Jamie below Vecna? I get being peeved by the perceived coasting, but that seems like a precipitous drop without the commensurate scummy behavior I would expect to justify it.

Next, why is Lamp so high in your list? I get the townread, he's done a lot of townie things and behaved far more experienced than you'd expect for someone that says they're brand new to forum mafia. I may be misremembering this but I think you mentioned you didn't like the Bona switch onto me at the end of they day as opposed to switching onto an actual counter wagon. Why do you not apply this same standard to lamp?

RHK - Yes

Vecna - Nah, it's a weak case.

Damo - Town damo is thinking about the game, his thought processes just don't make sense. Scum damo fakes this, and one can usually determine that there isn't a thought process.

HR - The activity at EoD was part of it. The fact that he spent the whole time shading every counter to Flum without really focusing on whether he scumread Flum, and specifically the way he generated his townread on Bob makes him look scummy.

Jamie - I scumread him yesterday too, so it's not a precipitous drop. I think the push on Flum is marginally more likely to come from scum Jamie than town Jamie, and he hasn't done anything else to impress me.

Lamp - I think the desire to get on the wagon you feel is best at the end is more likely to be legitimate coming from someone who's not used to playing mafia, and his stated preference was you or Flum rather than a flip from Flum to not Flum, so the whole thing irks me less than Bona's or RHK's vote. I appreciate the skepticism, as he'd definitely be better than most new players as scum, but I still think he's town.

[Jamiet99uk]

So nobody is interested in talking about how Chaqa just told us that he was apparently thinking of reasons for the scum team to roleblock him before the roleblock took place?

[Hellenic Riot]

So nobody is interested in talking about how Chaqa just told us that he was apparently thinking of reasons for the scum team to roleblock him before the roleblock took place?

If you mean the fact that he said he hadn't been pushing this theory for a couple days, no. That clearly meant that it was an initial reaction he hasn't brought up since (and he hasn't), and yelling GOTCHA! at that is just as crap as the theory was in the first place.

[Vecna]

ill talk with you about that if you stop scumreading me

[Hellenic Riot]

ill talk with you about that if you stop scumreading me

Do you have any townreads based on today?

[ghug]

the only thing to come out of the ghug fake claim for me is that bob’s immediate “seems legit” feels forced. still undecided on Bob as a whole though

what did ghug fake-claim? Did the wagon on him d1 actually got enough steam that he dismantled it with a fakeclaim?

This feels fake. Like you're trying to dumbtell. You were a little around at EoD, you're capable of checking votes in the bot, and you know that if I'd claimed a role to save myself, there'd be more pressure on me today.

[ghug]

This may be the most galaxy brained shit ever. The best part is if the guy gets two people right (33.3% chance (Math:((5C2)*(13C3))/(18C5))) or somehow 3 (9.10% chance Math:((5C3)*(13C2))/(18C5)) he'll be gloating forever. I love it. Is Maniac normally like this?

If any other people made a post like that I would say he just want to distract the thread, but Maniac is just Maniac.

In fact, I think most of the times he made some weird play he was town. But Bozo probably can confirm it.

I think we just have to accept that Maniac is the best use of a copscan, ever.

What?? He's so town right now.