M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[celaph]

Hr could you explain your progression on Bob at eod
I feel like you went from Bob is clueless to him being your strongest townread?
Was there a reason for flum over myself at that time of your vote on flum?

Bob got called out for making a lot of clueless posts going 'WTF is X wagon??@. Bob then started being voted. Bob then reacted by making even more clueless posts going 'WTF is Y wagon???'. This is not a response I would expect scum-Bob to make.

Agree with these conclusions after Bob's rdr post. I agree that his impulse to see himself being proposed as a cw and go spend 5 researching and ultimately defending the other cw is a rather towny one. Though I still don't agree with HR's defense of Bob before that post.

Also, good line of questioning from Donny.

@HR, can you explain why you think scum Bob would have just shut up at EoD there when people started voting him? I would find such behavior immediately suspicious, especially from Bob.

[TheFlyingBoat]

D2 Reads List

BobMcBob - Null. At first I found him to be townie then I found his weird can you explain X wagon to be really grating and I started to feel he was scum. Looking back though I feel like that was more me starting to loathe his posting and then that infiltrating my subconscious feelings about alignment.

Chances of scum!Bob being that bad in terms of asking stupid questions about what was happening right before his eyes and doubling and tripling down behavior as people called him out for it are low, but at the same time Bob did seem overly confident in Flum being town and the rest of his posts weren't great either.

Since it bears mentioning, DL's death doesn't look great for him given he was one of DL's biggest focuses, but I don't think mafia would let Bob target DL here even if he wanted to kill DL and I think he would know better than to target him UNLESS he thought DL was a PR so I don't think it should make up the crux of anyone's case against him or even a sizable part of it and would probably question anyone that chooses to make it so.


Bonatogether - Null. King of fluff posts and insults this game and the very rare occasional useful post here and there. I feel like at first when I read him I had light scum leans on him for being really weird but then ignored it because it was bona. They kinda got stronger as the day went on but I started to suppress it because I felt I was OMGUSing him and that was bad. I think HR was right to call me out for it because my explanation on Bona was a little bit too hand wavy in his defense and a sign that I may have been overcorrecting in my desire not to OMGUS him by letting it cloud my judgment the other way.

Bozotheclown - Slight town. As mentioned in my EOD analysis I started to lose confidence in my gloating, self-assured view of Bozo's fallibility being satisfactory justification for him missing the Flum tell past. That itself isn't really AI per se. Him still town reading Flum, voting him anyways on the basis it was a good information kill, and then calmly washing his hands of it all afterwards and not commenting on any of the information gleaned from it at the time of my EOD post really irked me. But between my EOD post and now he did bring back some activity. The count of 98 votes on D1 is so funny to me it sounds almost like a caricature of something bozo would do, but I love it. I also like that he does eventually provide some analysis on what the Flum death tells him. I don't even necessarily like all the content per se, like I think his attack on kgray is kinda off base, but you know I like the process and his state of mind.


BusinessLamp - Null. At first I liked a lot of his play because it seemed really town for a first time a mafia player. But the more I read his posts the more I come to the conclusion that he's played forum mafia somewhere else before as he has these heuristics, some good, some bad, that seem to come from some degree of experience. If you assume he has played mafia before, his willingness to go after Durga, the person he knows best, and other town-for-a-new-player posts rapidly become NAI.

celaph - Null. His D1 was really lazy imo and I got bad vibes from it but I think he's come around a lot D2 and posted more reads and been better, I think.

Chaqa - Slight town. Hasn't done much but has pointed guns at people that weren't necessarily popular targets when he did so and has tried to start discussions on them. I don't think the RB claims make me view him that much more favorably, given that I just don't know if I buy it 100% tbh, but it is something and given the allusions to chats with the gm, I am slightly inclined to buy it even if I don't like that type of play at all.

damo666 - Slight scum. I don't know if I like his follow onto the Flum wagon. Seemed a bit easy, didn't engage in the justifications as much as me and Jamie despite being the 3rd guy on and seemed like an easy place to park his vote and disappear without questions, especially if the Flum wagon disappeared.

DemonRHK - Slight town. His weird mea culpa and weird data shit just doesn't seem to have any scum motivation behind it. Really weird play and I don't like it, but I think it weird town not scum.

Donny Dude - Slight town. His frustration with celaph early in D1 seemed really genuine to me, his composure and reaction under duress in D1 also seemed pretty townie to me. The death of DL is mildly concerning, but not quite as bad for him imo as it was for Bob, though obviously once again prolly just PR hunting and shouldn't assume either Bob or DD are scum because of it. Got generally decent vibes from him

Durga - Slight scum. Let me preface this by saying I think the attacks on her for not defending Flum hard enough are opportunistic and stupid. That being said the Durga/Fox links are ones I found interesting when presented by Jamie and something about her just seems off to me this game.

Fox/Vecna - Med Scum. As mentioned early I really liked Jamie's case. Vecna has done literally nothing to change my mind.

ghug - Med Town. Need to revisit this one later when I am less tired. interactions with kgray and others after I last called him town leave me with questions but I don't necessarily think they would end up pointing against him.

goldfinger0303 - Null. Managed to avoid all of D1, but I do buy his RL issues claims. His D2 leaves something to be desired in terms of factual inaccuracies in both his coverage of flum's timeline (didn't matter that much in the end for his reads I think) and with what caused that spat with HR. I don't think they're necessarily the worst though that's subject to change depending on how he posts the rest of the day.

Jamiet99uk - High town. I loved the Fox/Durga case early. I loved the Flum case after I did my own research. Either I am a fool who has fallen in love with scum's cases and spent 7 hours adding research of my own to it or Jamie is town. If I am wrong here, feel free to pillory me for it; it will be well deserved.

HR- Null. I like some of his original posts and his reads list even though I don't share all his opinions, I do agree with him on quite a few. That being said with a guy like HR I am not sure that means much.

kgray - High town. Some of the stuff she said about the wagon shifting post Flum wall still seems wrong to me but in an AI way. Some other posts rub me the wrong way, but she's still my #1 town read. As said in the EOD "Her frustration seemed genuine, her analysis on rdr seemed to well-directed. Her evolution on flum seemed townie. Tbh her general vibe was very townie throughout the day."

Maniac - Null. I just don't get him but others say this is normal.

rdrivera2005 - Slight scum. I still find the way he avoided the Flum wagon really puzzling. Yeah damo's post was weird but who cares? Damo's actions shouldn't be enough to deter him from picking the wagon on a player he thinks is scummy. Him calling my voting for Flum weird is SUPER weird. It would be weird if I wasn't voting for Flum. I spent basically 7 hours pounding my fist on the table listing Flum's sins. The only thing weakening my resolve here is that Flum was town. That being said I did mention how rdr came out looking bad either way so still slight scum

Definitely ran out of steam at various parts as I am really tired from work, but here are my initial reads a few hours into D2. I have seen but am not quite sure what to make of the RB issue entirely beyond accepting ghug's retraction and being peeved Chaqa tried to use the GM to create a clear from himself.

Anyways time to go to bed again. These reads will probably undergo major changes tomorrow. We'll see.

[damo666]

The NK probably implies one of my supposed towncore is scum.

@ghug silly reaction test

Chaqa no longer scum suspect

@Demo you just want to look at total wordcount as a metric

@Jamie from what pov and at what stage?

Basically 1 - ((PlayerCount-Bcount)C5/PlayercountC5)

What is/was that towncore?

You Jamie blamp HR rdr kgray

[BusinessLamp]

after reading everything the interaction that stands out to me the most is the chaqa/bozo one. it feels like bozo's defense into chaqa was implying more malicious intent on chaqa's end than I personally read into it. while i don't think bozo's defense was particularly illogical or false, the tone of it feels... opportunistic about having something to drill in on someone for?

this was a stupid take by me, didnt get that impression the second time over

[BusinessLamp]

@BusinessLamp, please don’t kill me. I’ll be good I promise. I’m really lonely right now and signed up to have some purpose in my life and catch up with old friends and old foes. Please please please don’t kill me D1. I’ll be a good boy, I pinky promise

it is interesting though that (even though this is a casual plea mainly) nowhere in it is there any indication of "you're wrong, i'm an innocent player."

this is something that still sticks out to me a lot. i dont think anyone else commented on this at the time. is it salient to others?

[damo666]

Bozo's find on Bob strengthens the case against him. I do not foresee changing my vote so #$end

[damo666]

##end

[damo666]

@BusinessLamp, please don’t kill me. I’ll be good I promise. I’m really lonely right now and signed up to have some purpose in my life and catch up with old friends and old foes. Please please please don’t kill me D1. I’ll be a good boy, I pinky promise

it is interesting though that (even though this is a casual plea mainly) nowhere in it is there any indication of "you're wrong, i'm an innocent player."

this is something that still sticks out to me a lot. i dont think anyone else commented on this at the time. is it salient to others?

Yeah, looks a tad suss.

[BobMcBob]

So it was a coincidence that you mentioned M64 and M69 in your first post?

Yes it was purely a lucky guess, and I found it very amusing.

That is either very coincidental or you already had that information for some reason.

If you're going to keep pretending this has any meaning, I already knew I was in M69 as I think my most recent game, so I chucked that in. M64 was entirely pulled out of my ass, I didn't even know if I was in that game. M56, which you are conveniently ignoring that I also listed, did not have ghug in it, but was mentioned earlier this game, and I needed three examples for symmetry and emphasis about how silly it was that ghug expected me to remember exact examples. So yes, it was a slightly strange coincidence, would you like to vote me over it, or will you wait until celaph and Donny jump on first?

[BobMcBob]

Yes it was purely a lucky guess, and I found it very amusing.

That is either very coincidental or you already had that information for some reason.

I like this observation a lot.

DeathLlama was also a Bob voter. Eliminating a potential PR that was also onto something. Perhaps?

##Vote Bob

I'm gonna be honest, it's getting hard to not kill someone who scumreads me at this point. Why would I go after DL8, and why would my scumteam listen to the most scumread player on their team trying to convince them to fearkill to protect myself? I would've thought I made it clear by now that I don't quite care how many people scumread me.

[BusinessLamp]

##vote Bob

Either scum or an inconvenience

this didnt really work out yesterday

[BobMcBob]

I wouldn't worry too much about kgray, she only wins as scum when I'm on her team

What are people's thoughts on Maniac? Long gone are the days where he posted a lot, but I feel like he's lurking more than he normally would.

Lean town, but getting worse the more I think about it. I liked his arguments around Bob and Flum mid-D1. That said, he has been coasting hard on his Bob read without elaborating further.

@Bob, why did you not ask Maniac to share his reason for voting you last night? Looking ahead at your iso, you upgraded your opinion to him from bad to fiiiine. Why?

Because he had stated his case and then proceeded to decide that was enough work for one day and left and hadn't developed any further.
I believe I actually moved Maniac to fiiine because I felt like I had too many scumreads on the list already to put maniac as one as well, and he hadn't got any worse, but I still wasn't happy with it, hence fiiine.

[BusinessLamp]

Got town Vecna vibes from Goldie's catchup.

what does this mean

[BobMcBob]

@BusinessLamp, please don’t kill me. I’ll be good I promise. I’m really lonely right now and signed up to have some purpose in my life and catch up with old friends and old foes. Please please please don’t kill me D1. I’ll be a good boy, I pinky promise

it is interesting though that (even though this is a casual plea mainly) nowhere in it is there any indication of "you're wrong, i'm an innocent player."

this is something that still sticks out to me a lot. i dont think anyone else commented on this at the time. is it salient to others?

No, I wouldn't expect town Maniac to say "I am town" in such a post, it usually sounds awkward. It's more odd that he didn't mention his handsomeness in it tbh.

[BobMcBob]

Bozo's find on Bob strengthens the case against him. I do not foresee changing my vote so #$end

This is just lousy play. It doesn't strengthen the case in any logical way. Not that damo... Has a case on me. I am even simultaneously in his top 5 scumreads and not in them at the same time, which he still hasn't accounted for.
##vote damo

[BobMcBob]

Got town Vecna vibes from Goldie's catchup.

what does this mean

I missed that, that's so funny.

[Jamiet99uk]

Hello.

@Durga / @Kgray: I apologise if I was rude to you just after EoN. I had consumed one too many bloody Mary's.

Damo, what is your obsession with end-voting in this game? Is Brainbomb sitting your account?

[Jamiet99uk]

The NK probably implies one of my supposed towncore is scum.

@ghug silly reaction test

Chaqa no longer scum suspect

@Demo you just want to look at total wordcount as a metric

@Jamie from what pov and at what stage?

Basically 1 - ((PlayerCount-Bcount)C5/PlayercountC5)

@Damo: Now, and from either your POV or that of a neutral spectator who doesn't know the rolls, or both.

[BobMcBob]

Okay, question time!
Maniac, why is your entire game so far focussed solely on me?

Damo, why do you have no cases for anyone or original thoughts all game? Why is your voting so lazy?

Kgray, why were you so quick to jump off both durga and celaph after apparently resolving to call them out, and why have you completely forgone exposing this change?

Bona, as much as I like you, when are you going to start making meaningful thoughts on the game?

Bozo, why has your only contribution today been scumreading me over a meaningless coincidence (and also one post scumreading me by proxy)? Do you plan to vote me? If so, why haven't you done it yet? Who are your other reads?

Question time may continue later if I have more questions for people, but that's what I've got for now. Also why the actual heck are there three people who have done basically nothing today except talk about me? Do I have a lazy lurker magnet or something?

[BusinessLamp]

ghug when did you decide to fakeclaim roleblocked