M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

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TheFlyingBoat
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1121 Post by TheFlyingBoat » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:46 pm

BusinessLamp wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:37 pm
Durga wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:12 pm
i think damo and tfb are good choices for today. tbh i can never really read damo but he hasn't done his usual math bs yet and keeps asserting that flum needs to die and i can't follow any reasoning behind why.
i think the reasoning (or at least mine conflated with his) is that Flum has been such a mess that there's likely no way he survives the game without being voted out or at least being a discussion point every day. so like why not take him out now for more clarity later? idk if i agree with it but i see the argument

The "there's likely no way he survives the game without being voted out" is not a major thrust of my argument. The "or at least being a discussion point every day" is certainly. Flum is going to be a time suck for the rest of the day until he gives a good answer to legitimate questions that have probably been asked 4 or 5 times so far. And given how he keeps on digging in with every post instead of just answering, it's just going to create more and more lingering issues we'll have to deal with during each day going forward until he's dead.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1122 Post by Durga » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:48 pm

kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:43 pm
Durga wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:38 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:28 pm


I'm not familiar with the phrase "went ham" but I don't think Chaqa and Fluminator are all that similar in their approaches, so I'm not sure this comparison is useful.

I've not totally caught up on the posts that I've missed, but unless Fluminator gave a very good explanation of his behaviour, I'll be unlikely to change my view (so, ok, I should go and look).
the situation being that eden was so sure because chaqa changed his story regarding his crumb that he was scum, when chaqa was town

like idk, maybe flum is scum, but i don't think your case is that strong and i don't think being finnicky over something like this is helpful - either way, i'm not shocked you're tunnelling in on it, i was just shocked tfb agreed.
tbf I don't think Chaqa changed his story with his crumb, I think Eden (and other misguided townies who shall remain nameless) just thought it was such a bad explanation that it couldn't be true.

I agree that if it were just the lie it'd be finicky, but it's really not. I think flum was flustered even if he says he thought it was funny - nothing I saw from him made me think he was enjoying the exchange, and the only result of it was to produce an omgus scumread on boatman. And I think town!flum would have seemed a lot more relaxed about it.

Are you shocked that I agree with them?
Your reasoning is different than Jamie - Jamie is saying that he lied therefore he's scum. You're saying that he was flustered and not relaxed enough and therefore he's scum. I agree that scum!flum is a lot less relaxed than town!flum - but also having jamie drill you like that is exhausting so I can see why he might not have had fun.

Are you scum reading flum then?
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1123 Post by Fluminator » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:48 pm

TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:42 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:38 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:10 pm


Why do you think I came clean?
You're the one who isn't moving on.
Damn right I'm not moving on. I think you are scum and have so far seen nothing to change my mind (although I'm still catching up).

Admitting you "came clean" is an acknowledgement that your initial claim was a lie. Yet you have also claimed you were "not trolling".

If you were not trolling, and if you are town, then you must have had a sincere, helpful, pro-town reason for doing it. So please help us to understand. Why did you decide to make up this lie about your trust-tell? How did you think that your lies would help town catch scum?
I've asked these questions to Flum multiple times and still have yet to get a coherent answer.
I've caught you being sus for one.
Lot of interesting stuff regarding bozo and donny and Jamiet. A few others like Chaqa and Kgray and Durga have given me some stuff too although I haven't fully analyzed it yet.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1124 Post by Durga » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:49 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:45 pm
Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:34 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:28 pm


So read other people then, you've only commented on donny and boatman.

Did you read of boatman change after his recent (mostly anti-Flum) activity?
I'm evaluating. I also dislike Flum changing his story under pressure rather than brushing the whole thing off as typical Flum-like trolling, so I don't detest the focus on that even if it yet again seems like Boat going after the lowest hanging fruit.
I don't remember changing my story. I came clean after there was noting more to gain from keeping the story up.

But I would like to point out that TFB originally voted me for lying about the trust tell, and only now after being pressured he's saying it wasn't the lie and it was actually about the process.
this
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1125 Post by Fluminator » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:49 pm

kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:43 pm
I agree that if it were just the lie it'd be finicky, but it's really not. I think flum was flustered even if he says he thought it was funny - nothing I saw from him made me think he was enjoying the exchange, and the only result of it was to produce an omgus scumread on boatman. And I think town!flum would have seemed a lot more relaxed about it.

Are you shocked that I agree with them?
You mean my exchange with Jamiet where I said I was roleplaying Maniac and Jeff in my reads list and thus not talking about myself? Really?
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1126 Post by Hellenic Riot » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:50 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:45 pm
Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:34 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:28 pm


So read other people then, you've only commented on donny and boatman.

Did you read of boatman change after his recent (mostly anti-Flum) activity?
I'm evaluating. I also dislike Flum changing his story under pressure rather than brushing the whole thing off as typical Flum-like trolling, so I don't detest the focus on that even if it yet again seems like Boat going after the lowest hanging fruit.
I don't remember changing my story. I came clean after there was noting more to gain from keeping the story up.
I don't remember changing my story. I changed my story after there was nothing more to be gained from the original story.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1127 Post by kgray » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:53 pm

Durga wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:48 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:43 pm
Durga wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:38 pm


the situation being that eden was so sure because chaqa changed his story regarding his crumb that he was scum, when chaqa was town

like idk, maybe flum is scum, but i don't think your case is that strong and i don't think being finnicky over something like this is helpful - either way, i'm not shocked you're tunnelling in on it, i was just shocked tfb agreed.
tbf I don't think Chaqa changed his story with his crumb, I think Eden (and other misguided townies who shall remain nameless) just thought it was such a bad explanation that it couldn't be true.

I agree that if it were just the lie it'd be finicky, but it's really not. I think flum was flustered even if he says he thought it was funny - nothing I saw from him made me think he was enjoying the exchange, and the only result of it was to produce an omgus scumread on boatman. And I think town!flum would have seemed a lot more relaxed about it.

Are you shocked that I agree with them?
Your reasoning is different than Jamie - Jamie is saying that he lied therefore he's scum. You're saying that he was flustered and not relaxed enough and therefore he's scum. I agree that scum!flum is a lot less relaxed than town!flum - but also having jamie drill you like that is exhausting so I can see why he might not have had fun.

Are you scum reading flum then?
Yeah you're right, my reasoning isn't the same as Jamie's.

I mean yeah, I think I'm scumreading flum. You're right that there are other reasons why he might not have enjoyed that exchange but Flum knows Jamie and knows that he does this, so he could've just let it blow over. I guess that would be true regardless of Flum's alignment, but it feels more scummy to me that he was tripping over his explanation and trying to seem unperturbed about it when (imo) he clearly wasn't.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1128 Post by TheFlyingBoat » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:54 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:45 pm
Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:34 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:28 pm


So read other people then, you've only commented on donny and boatman.

Did you read of boatman change after his recent (mostly anti-Flum) activity?
I'm evaluating. I also dislike Flum changing his story under pressure rather than brushing the whole thing off as typical Flum-like trolling, so I don't detest the focus on that even if it yet again seems like Boat going after the lowest hanging fruit.
I don't remember changing my story. I came clean after there was noting more to gain from keeping the story up.

But I would like to point out that TFB originally voted me for lying about the trust tell, and only now after being pressured he's saying it wasn't the lie and it was actually about the process.
Yes, I originally put the vote on you because you lied to put pressure on you to respond to getting caught. As you responded, my scum read got stronger and stronger as nothing you said ever made any sense. I explicitly bring out my issues regarding process pretty damn early on as you start to change your story in response to pressure:
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:30 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:25 pm
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:13 pm


How do you square that with your play this game?
What's there to square?
You seem to have recognized such play is bad back then and that your more mature self at that time was a better person than the one who got mad at getting teamed out in a diplomacy game for blackmailing a rulebreaker. Yet here we are almost a year and a half later and you're bringing out the trust tell again except instead of it being the pizza tell you claim it is the "I am town" tell or "im town" tell, none of which you have used before.

The point is why do you think using trust tells is now ok after thinking it was bad almost a year and a half ago? Second, if you were intentionally lying/trolling around with it, what did you hope to get and what did you get out of it in terms of information? Third, why should I believe that you were intentionally lying as town instead of blowing your trust tell as scum?

My vote on you seems to have achieved its desired end of making you respond to issues brought up regarding your initial claim of a trust tell given the complete evolution the story behind it has taken on from beginning to now. When it comes to getting you to answer the tough questions. To pretend I haven't been harping on process for a significant portion of this whole debacle is farcical.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1129 Post by Fluminator » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:54 pm

lol fair enough. I guess worded that way.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1130 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:54 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:45 pm
Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:34 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:28 pm

So read other people then, you've only commented on donny and boatman.

Did you read of boatman change after his recent (mostly anti-Flum) activity?
I'm evaluating. I also dislike Flum changing his story under pressure rather than brushing the whole thing off as typical Flum-like trolling, so I don't detest the focus on that even if it yet again seems like Boat going after the lowest hanging fruit.
I don't remember changing my story. I came clean after there was noting more to gain from keeping the story up.

But I would like to point out that TFB originally voted me for lying about the trust tell, and only now after being pressured he's saying it wasn't the lie and it was actually about the process.
Of course you changed your story!

You claimed you had a trust-tell which involved not claiming to be town, when you were scum. Then you admitted that there was actually no such trust-tell. What is that if not a change in your fucking story?
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1131 Post by TheFlyingBoat » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:55 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:48 pm
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:42 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:38 pm


Damn right I'm not moving on. I think you are scum and have so far seen nothing to change my mind (although I'm still catching up).

Admitting you "came clean" is an acknowledgement that your initial claim was a lie. Yet you have also claimed you were "not trolling".

If you were not trolling, and if you are town, then you must have had a sincere, helpful, pro-town reason for doing it. So please help us to understand. Why did you decide to make up this lie about your trust-tell? How did you think that your lies would help town catch scum?
I've asked these questions to Flum multiple times and still have yet to get a coherent answer.
I've caught you being sus for one.
Lot of interesting stuff regarding bozo and donny and Jamiet. A few others like Chaqa and Kgray and Durga have given me some stuff too although I haven't fully analyzed it yet.
You haven't caught me being sus. You're just OMGUSing. As for the interesting stuff, care to actually say what that is? Or are you just going to dissemble and name drop until time runs out?
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1132 Post by kgray » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:55 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:49 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:43 pm
I agree that if it were just the lie it'd be finicky, but it's really not. I think flum was flustered even if he says he thought it was funny - nothing I saw from him made me think he was enjoying the exchange, and the only result of it was to produce an omgus scumread on boatman. And I think town!flum would have seemed a lot more relaxed about it.

Are you shocked that I agree with them?
You mean my exchange with Jamiet where I said I was roleplaying Maniac and Jeff in my reads list and thus not talking about myself? Really?
No, mostly I'm suspicious of how you tried to make it seem like you were originally trolling but then "clarified" you weren't.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1133 Post by Fluminator » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:57 pm

TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:54 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:45 pm
Hellenic Riot wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:34 pm

I'm evaluating. I also dislike Flum changing his story under pressure rather than brushing the whole thing off as typical Flum-like trolling, so I don't detest the focus on that even if it yet again seems like Boat going after the lowest hanging fruit.
I don't remember changing my story. I came clean after there was noting more to gain from keeping the story up.

But I would like to point out that TFB originally voted me for lying about the trust tell, and only now after being pressured he's saying it wasn't the lie and it was actually about the process.
Yes, I originally put the vote on you because you lied to put pressure on you to respond to getting caught. As you responded, my scum read got stronger and stronger as nothing you said ever made any sense. I explicitly bring out my issues regarding process pretty damn early on as you start to change your story in response to pressure:
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:30 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:25 pm

What's there to square?
You seem to have recognized such play is bad back then and that your more mature self at that time was a better person than the one who got mad at getting teamed out in a diplomacy game for blackmailing a rulebreaker. Yet here we are almost a year and a half later and you're bringing out the trust tell again except instead of it being the pizza tell you claim it is the "I am town" tell or "im town" tell, none of which you have used before.

The point is why do you think using trust tells is now ok after thinking it was bad almost a year and a half ago? Second, if you were intentionally lying/trolling around with it, what did you hope to get and what did you get out of it in terms of information? Third, why should I believe that you were intentionally lying as town instead of blowing your trust tell as scum?

My vote on you seems to have achieved its desired end of making you respond to issues brought up regarding your initial claim of a trust tell given the complete evolution the story behind it has taken on from beginning to now. When it comes to getting you to answer the tough questions. To pretend I haven't been harping on process for a significant portion of this whole debacle is farcical.
This is word salad. You may win the battle, but you won't win the war.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1134 Post by kgray » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:59 pm

I get ghug's point that Jamie could be doing this as scum, and originally I agreed with Flum that boatman latching on to Jamie's 'gotcha' was scummy, but the way they've both dug into this really feels to me like they're townies vibing with each other convinced they've caught scum. At the very least I think there's about zero percent chance that boatman is scum and Jamie is town, as Flum is arguing.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1135 Post by Fluminator » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:59 pm

kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:55 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:49 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:43 pm
I agree that if it were just the lie it'd be finicky, but it's really not. I think flum was flustered even if he says he thought it was funny - nothing I saw from him made me think he was enjoying the exchange, and the only result of it was to produce an omgus scumread on boatman. And I think town!flum would have seemed a lot more relaxed about it.

Are you shocked that I agree with them?
You mean my exchange with Jamiet where I said I was roleplaying Maniac and Jeff in my reads list and thus not talking about myself? Really?
No, mostly I'm suspicious of how you tried to make it seem like you were originally trolling but then "clarified" you weren't.
The trust tell post isn't trolling though. Trolling is bugging people in a funny way to get a reaction. Nothing about the Trust tell was intended to be funny. It had a purpose.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1136 Post by kgray » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:00 pm

@Durga do you think Flum is town or scum? I feel like you've been avoiding giving a direct opinion.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1137 Post by ghug » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:01 pm

Flum, you've gotta get serious or they're gonna kill you for this shit.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1138 Post by rdrivera2005 » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:01 pm

kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:15 pm
I don't like that Rivera is still on no-kill especially after finding reasons to agree with multiple people's scumreads (especially the flum one is bothering me).

I feel like town!Chaqa would care more. He apparently hated the boatman wagon but has done nothing to counter it and I don't know who he actually scumreads, if anyone.

HR not commenting on the boatman wagon that he started but hinting he'd move to Donny is kind of yucky.
I also hate I am at no-kill but I am having a hard time finding who to vote. Tfb isn't that bad of a choice but I don't want a runaway wagon. I could possibly vote for Celaph but you will yell at me.
I would vote for Fox but he subbed.
Flum wagon is weird and Bob is sleeping.

Anyone want to ##vote Ghug ? I got a feeling.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1139 Post by ghug » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:02 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:49 pm
kgray wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:43 pm
I agree that if it were just the lie it'd be finicky, but it's really not. I think flum was flustered even if he says he thought it was funny - nothing I saw from him made me think he was enjoying the exchange, and the only result of it was to produce an omgus scumread on boatman. And I think town!flum would have seemed a lot more relaxed about it.

Are you shocked that I agree with them?
You mean my exchange with Jamiet where I said I was roleplaying Maniac and Jeff in my reads list and thus not talking about myself? Really?
kargy, I'd appreciate a response to this.
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Re: M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

#1140 Post by BesharamSabi » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:02 pm

VOTE COUNT VERSION 1.09

Final Count Down

TheFlyingBoat: (4) Hellenic Riot, Durga, Bonatogether, Fluminator
Fluminator: (3) Jamiet99uk, TheFlyingBoat, damo666*
BobMcBob: (2) Maniac, DeathLlama8
Celaph: (2) DemonRHK, Donny Dude
Durga: (2) Chaqa, BusinessLamp
damo666: (1) ghug
DeathLlama8: (1) bozotheclown
Foxcastle: (1) BobMcBob
Hellenic Riot: (1) goldfinger0303
No‑Kill: (1) rdrivera2005
Unvote: (1) kgray

Non-votes: celaph, Vecna

AS OF RIGHT NOW, BOATMAN IS ABOUT TO GET A VIKING FUNERAL

EOD IN 2 HOURS

Nintendo was founded in 1889. Before it sold video games, the Japanese company specialized in playing cards.
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