TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:35 am
bozotheclown wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:44 pm
BesharamSabi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:11 pm
Sorry bozo. I don't want a tie. I want to win.
What I suspect TFB plans to do is switch his vote off of me at the last minute to force a tie, to set up a prisoner's dilemma N6. If we both go for the solo win N6, we NK each other and town wins. If only one of us NKs the other, that player would win. If we both NK TFB, we tie for the win.
This is the only good play left for town, so I assume that is why TFB wanted to make sure you left him alive for D6.
So, unless TFB is willing to hammer me, you have a choice to accept the joint mafia win today or risk losing N6.
##VOTE TheFlyingBoat
From Jamie when asked by Sabi if this game could end in a tie.
Yes. Some might interpret a "tie" as a shared loss. It is not a shared win. But yes, there is a scenario where that can happen.
There is no such thing as a shared win. Your object is to eliminate the town and the enemy mafia or to make such an event essentially fait accompli. You have failed at that task if you choose to vote for me and tie. The only way you can win this game is to go into the night and hope you can convince Sabi to shoot me instead of you by lying to them that the best play is for both of you to shoot me and then surreptitiously taking your shot at them while they shoot me. Now when I made the threat I was very angry with your play and viewed it as playing away from your win condition by playing he entire game to go for a tie instead of a win. And st that point I was willing to kill you without giving you any shot at redemption as punishment for the poor play and a lesson to never do so again. While not as angry as brainbomb, I was pretty damn close, even though I chose to keep some of it inside
That being said, this is a new year and a new new me. I'm trying to be kinder, gentler than I have in the past. To that end I'll offer you mercy.
If you hammer a no kill vote, I will follow you with a hammer and you can sort out that dilemma you mentioned with Sabi. You clearly have given that scenario more thought than I have and I thank you for mentioning it.
Otherwise, I'm going to be hammering you once I get back from dropping my cousin off at the airport on Jan 4th around 2:30 am (Jan 3rd 1pm Pacific). I won't be on here much between the next couple hours and then, since I intend to spend the remaining time I can with family before they fly back to Chicago, and I figure with time differences it is very likely there will be long gaps between us seeing each other's posts.
To be clear the only way this phase ends is with a no kill or with you dying and Sabi getting a well, well deserved win. They managed to slip under the radar incredibly well so as far as I'm concerned if you're not going to play to win bozo, I should reward the one scum team that is.
##VOTE bozo
Tick tock
I don't know why you think I was playing the "entire game" for a tie. When my teammates where eliminated by D2, my goal was to try to get rid of the other mafia team before they NKed me and then try to survive the DKs until the end of the game. That is why I NKed ghug N2, pushed for captainmeme's DK D3 (when the scan was revealed), and NKed rdrivera N3 (he was my best guess at the time for the last E mafia). Even D4 I was hoping Macca would turn out to be the last E mafia, because I thought I still had a narrow path to victory (NK Foxcastle N4, mis-kill damo D5, NK you N5, and go into D6 with BesharamSabi, brainbomb, and lfischl, needing a mis-kill). It was not until D5 that I was relatively confident that BesharamSabi was the other mafia (I could not afford any more Foxcastle scans, where Foxcastle was not the biggest threat to the forger, so I thought brainbomb or damo, being relatively more experienced in mafia than BesharamSabi, would have realized that and NKed someone else). I knew D5, though, that I would have a tough time avoiding the DK, and had no real chance of getting BesharamSabi DKed ahead of me, so at that point I decided to go for the damo mis-kill, knowing that a draw was likely the best result I could obtain. However, I was planning on staying quiet N5 knowing BesharamSabi would likely NK a clear, withhold my NK, and go into D6 with BesharamSabi, brainbomb, and the remaining clear, and doing my best to convince the last clear that I was the 1 town of the remaining 3. It was not until brainbomb tried to trick BesharamSabi into NKing me that I decided my best option was to go for the draw.
In diplomacy, I play for the solo win. When that is no longer possible or very improbable, I play to be included in a draw. I think that most diplomacy players would agree that being included in the draw is better than being eliminated.
I think this is the proper interpretation for this game:
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:21 pm
damo666 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:19 pm
@GM if it is left with 2 scum is it a 2 way draw, a 3 way draw (ie an auto 3wd at 1-1-1), or nobody wins?
If 2 scum are left and nobody else, then town loses and scum share in a draw.
1-1-1 however is *not* an automatic draw.
It is fair to call it a draw instead of a "joint win", but from my point of view, it is still better than being eliminated, and I am OK playing for the draw here because I no longer see any path to victory.
I don't care if you want to give BesharamSabi and their team the win, but I take my obligation to the game when drawing mafia seriously, even though it is not my preference to play as mafia. As part of that obligation, my interpretation is that it is the proper play in this setup to play for a draw with one of the other teams when a win is not possible or very improbable. Based on what BesharamSabi has already said, I consider it very improbable that I would be able to win in the scenario you presented, so I think the proper play for me is to try to convince BesharamSabi to accept the draw.
From your position, however, you have no chance at a draw, and your only chance at a win is to try to force a tie vote D6, so hammering me and letting BesharamSabi win when you would lose instead of being included in a draw would go against the argument you made, so I have to assume that you have no intention of hammering me and that you plan on doing whatever you can to force a tie vote today.