M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[BesharamSabi]

Cause I be rereadin

Can you point out the post that gave you doubts about ghug town status? If it's not post, can you expand on the vibes you are getting. Is it because he's being difficult with answering questions? If it's that reason aren't you also doing the same? Snow please expand. You're killing me here cat boy.

[bo_sox48]

What are the items that make worcej a more informative flip than bozo?

Your reading comprehension needs work.

"I don’t see how either of those are informative flips"

Start there.

Ahhh you’re a detail person

How is it “interesting” then

I don't know how responding in kind to an utterly stupid question that you could have answered yourself by actually reading the post you quoted makes me a "detail person" but I appreciate the attempt to place the blame for the tone of this exchange on me.

I have little read on worcej or even memory of him playing other than buddying me. Thus, if a wagon against him develops, I would be interested in its progression and perhaps interested in joining it if the case for him as scum is strong enough because late day wagons tend to be informative when they are based in reality. On the other hand, the late day wagon against bozo was based on three people saying that he "feels off" to them and, given the low odds of the entire scumteam deciding to pile on a lurker for subjective bullshit at about the same time, that provides us nothing.

[BesharamSabi]

OK I suck at lylo/mylo math so someone please explain how many miskills can we have before we are fucked if there's 3 scum vs 4 scum? Would it be a bad idea to do a no kill for day one since honestly I can't think of one person that we could possible kill right now that would provide us with info. Please and thank you.

Also as a reminder my pronouns are they and them and not she/he/him/her.

[Squigs44]

And if he’s town it means he honestly gutted that fourman he listed, which is still valuable, and people voted for him, which is info.

Squigs, do you townread bozo? Why/not?

Do you think a team listed by town Bozo day 1 with little explanation is valuable to town? Like if Bozo flipped town, would you sheep his reads?
Also anyone that we flip will have votes on them, so you get that info from anyone voted out.

I do not townread Bozo, but I've seen town Bozo play like this and get miskilled so I'm NAI on him. I'd be fine with him being eliminated but I think there are better plays. I still think Celaph is acting unusual in his post style and inability to give a scumread. I'd prefer a worcej wagon over Bozo based on info gained too

How does worcej give info lol

Have you read his iso?

Worcej either votes or gives a read on:
Player (post#)
DL (157)
Jamie (159)
Damo (166)
Foodcoats(392)
Bosox (396)
Snowy (752)
Squigs (753)
Snowy again (762)

That's more interactions than Bozo

[Squigs44]

OK I suck at lylo/mylo math so someone please explain how many miskills can we have before we are fucked if there's 3 scum vs 4 scum? Would it be a bad idea to do a no kill for day one since honestly I can't think of one person that we could possible kill right now that would provide us with info. Please and thank you.

Also as a reminder my pronouns are they and them and not she/he/him/her.

3 miskills with 3 scum
2 miskills with 4 scum

No kill is bad for play and according to math

Also apologies if I ever mess up anyone's pronouns, I'm trying but I'm not perfect

[bo_sox48]

Why do you keep thinking Squigs is bussing celaph?

Squigs' main target today has been Bona. Yet he backed off Bona on page 26:

Ask me why I think you are scum and try to convince me that that reasoning is wrong.

Instead you tried convincing the other 11 or however many people in the game that I'm full of crap and my opinions can't be trusted. Town try to work together and correct incorrect lines of reasoning. Or at least they should.

I think my initial goal of voting you for pressure has accomplished its goal in getting conversations going and jumpstarting us out of the day 1 random question phase so I'll stand by that vote.

As for my thoughts on Bona now, I certainly haven't seen anything that convinces me Bona is town, but with input from Ghug and Sabi I might have to accept that my feelings towards Bona are mostly NAI and I'm gonna have to start looking at other players as well to get a better picture

It's worth noting that he made an actual case against Bona, one that was worth considering. How was that just a boring pressure vote? Why did he back off of it, and why did he credit you and ghug for convincing him to do so?

His next move is to jump to celaph:

So I liked Celaphs vibes early on, but since page 13 Celaph has made 7 posts:
1 question to me
4 posts defending/agreeing with me
1 posts giving the quote I asked for
1 post saying good job DL

I can't help but shake the feeling Celaph is trying to buddy me after my post saying I liked em.

He did, in fact, townread celaph early. So this post makes sense. Six minutes later, without Celaph posting again, he votes for Celaph:

Yeah I don't want to be pocketed by Celaph

##vote Celaph

I have done this a number of times as scum when I think "hmmm, maybe I should bus a teammate, but not that hard" and then realize that it's too obvious if I don't actually put a little heat on him. That's how this feels to me.

This is his first question to Celaph awhile after voting him:

@Celaph whenever they're back:

You have primarily given town reads and defended people. You haven't really given any reasons why anyone could be scum.

Why is this?

Does this seem like hardball to you? It's shit. He puts "pressure" on Celaph by voting for him and then leaves him a first grade level question to bail himself out of it.

Later:

Okay so I also went and reread (skimmed) Celaphs last game (well day 1), when they were a town cop. Celaph does townread people and defend people day 1, but they also place several votes and develop scumreads. Their tone is also different, that Celaph shared a lot more original insights rather than this Celaph who either says "I agree" or asks "Why do you think this?". Most notably Celaphs post count and average length of posts is much lower this game.

I'm gonna stick to my Celaph vote since I don't see any wagon that compels me more at the moment

More shit that he knows isn't going to stick with anyone else. He dropped his vote on a teammate on day 1 knowing it wasn't going to spur anyone else into wagoning him.

Since some people don't know what a scumread is, ##VOTE Squigs

[damo666]

I don't really get the 'info on flip' talk. That will not become apparent until near of day imo.

[Squigs44]

The thing most troubling to me is how Jamie hasnt been in the spotlight or thrown a fit or called GM or anything this game. Every game I've played with Jamie, he's been the center of attention at some point on day 1. I like the change, but also... it's weird and I don't know how to feel about his play

[snowy801]

bobo do you think your suspicions of Squigs holds true on the assumption that Celaph isn't scum?

[ghug]

I'd rather have Bozo that Worcej

##Vote Bozo

Whoa, Jamie did a reaction test.

[Jamiet99uk]

I dunno just a feeling

You're disappointing.

[snowy801]

The thing most troubling to me is how Jamie hasnt been in the spotlight or thrown a fit or called GM or anything this game. Every game I've played with Jamie, he's been the center of attention at some point on day 1. I like the change, but also... it's weird and I don't know how to feel about his play

I've been training him out of this tendency

[bo_sox48]

bobo do you think your suspicions of Squigs holds true on the assumption that Celaph isn't scum?

Yeah, he's scummy either way. If Celaph is town, dropping a vote on someone for dumb reasons that nobody will buy who you know won't fight back and force you to defend your shit play is smart. And why did he back off of Bona at the behest of other players?

[bo_sox48]

The thing most troubling to me is how Jamie hasnt been in the spotlight or thrown a fit or called GM or anything this game. Every game I've played with Jamie, he's been the center of attention at some point on day 1. I like the change, but also... it's weird and I don't know how to feel about his play

He literally voted for himself the second he got wagoned even a little

[ghug]

I grow ever more confident that ghug is mafia

I'm impressed that you can do this while I'm sleeping and you've been caught up.

[snowy801]

My power is boundless within reasonable limits

[Squigs44]

Bo you overestimate my scum play. Why wouldn't I have just stuck on Bona as scum, that wagon had more momentum than pretty much any other that has popped up today. If anything, a case for me bussing Bona then backing off makes more sense

[ghug]

We learn that Bozo was scum, and we should revisit his "early prediction" scum list to see if he was bussing anybody.

Plus flipping scum is always good, obv.

And if he’s town it means he honestly gutted that fourman he listed, which is still valuable, and people voted for him, which is info.

Squigs, do you townread bozo? Why/not?

Do you think a team listed by town Bozo day 1 with little explanation is valuable to town? Like if Bozo flipped town, would you sheep his reads?
Also anyone that we flip will have votes on them, so you get that info from anyone voted out.

I do not townread Bozo, but I've seen town Bozo play like this and get miskilled so I'm NAI on him. I'd be fine with him being eliminated but I think there are better plays. I still think Celaph is acting unusual in his post style and inability to give a scumread. I'd prefer a worcej wagon over Bozo based on info gained too

Can we not reduce this to a question of who provides the most info? Any competitive day one wagons are going to provide info eventually.

[bo_sox48]

Bo you overestimate my scum play. Why wouldn't I have just stuck on Bona as scum, that wagon had more momentum than pretty much any other that has popped up today. If anything, a case for me bussing Bona then backing off makes more sense

Your case on Bona wasn't terrible, that's the thing, and you had room to build on it by forcing him to interact further. I don't see why you would have just let that one go as town. Why is your case on Celaph so much more terrible and why won't you pry him on something harder beyond how many people he townreads?

[Squigs44]

bobo do you think your suspicions of Squigs holds true on the assumption that Celaph isn't scum?

Yeah, he's scummy either way. If Celaph is town, dropping a vote on someone for dumb reasons that nobody will buy who you know won't fight back and force you to defend your shit play is smart. And why did he back off of Bona at the behest of other players?

I dont think my reasons for voting Celaph are any dumber than any other reason a wagon has formed today. Celaph has had 5 different people vote for them, so characterizing my push as one that is doomed to fail seems incorrect. Do you disagree with my assessment of Celaph hiding behind townreads and acting differently than his usual meta, or do you just think there are better cases out there, and if so, which ones?