M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

If you have a game you want to play on the forum, you can do so here.
Forum rules
This is an area for forum games. Please note that to support mafia games players cannot edit their own posts in this forum. Off Topic threads will be relocated or deleted. Issues taking place in forum games should be dealt with by respective game GMs and escalated to the moderators only if absolutely necessary.
Message
Author
DeathLlama8
Posts: 783
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:10 am
Karma: 675

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2881 Post by DeathLlama8 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:46 am

damn i can't believe they killed off literally everyone in a non central/eastern timezone

DeathLlama8
Posts: 783
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:10 am
Karma: 675

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2882 Post by DeathLlama8 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:55 am

hmm no i feel pretty good about sabi actually. I want to see everyone's reactions to them tomorrow though so no end until i wake up

DeathLlama8
Posts: 783
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:10 am
Karma: 675

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2883 Post by DeathLlama8 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:08 am

maybe it is doom
or i should go to bed

BunnyGo
Posts: 10324
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
Karma: 3260

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2884 Post by BunnyGo » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:48 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:24 am
bunny notes
+ on reread, the only thing vecna did d1 that could be alignment indicative is voting kakarroto
• wow i forgot how bad the ghug case was
• keep tunnelling me if I'm wrong ig but I think a lot of my immediate scum vibes that come from bunny are just because we have different playstyles (he focuses more on behavior patterns)
+ is mechanistically wrong on tracker in a way that feels genuine? like there's no clear scum reason to pursue the line of questioning he does early d3 (tracker is negative utility PR) but I think scum would've talked that out by now
@bunny - why did you discuss the whole ghug-TFB connection so openly d3?
+ gives up a pretty strong rdr read (admittedly based on a fake scumslip) to follow damo, who he had previously shown no indication of wanting to follow, onto jamiet. Rdr was also still a pretty viable wagon at the time? Could be bussing I guess but wouldn't he want to get more credit out of it. At worst NAI, I don't buy the earlier argument that this is a clear bus
@bunny - "Much of it is research/rereads, which is easy to just do as town or scum with time." do you think this has been my style, and what kind of styles do you think are harder to fake?
@bunny - can you explain the evolution of your read on rdr starting like n3? how important did the scumslip end up being to your final decision?

I think the main thing that's pinging me is that it does genuinely seem like bunny's been less interested in solving the game starting from when he subbed to now, but it's hard to extricate that from his RL lack of free time. The push on Ghug is weird but attributable to a different playstyle, and I think the jamiet vote buys him at least a way to KILO.

still happy to stay on sabi for now.
Holy wall of text death man!

It's because it's early, but I had to literally copy and paste the questions into another location to read them.

To answer the first question: I was asking Durga about who you are, because my first win as scum here I was the high poster who did rereads and mech reads and VCA much like you're doing. I think it's VERY easy to fake. It's part of why I'm voting you.

My style until very recently as been to do big detailed rereads and then focus in on "slip" or a "mech" issue or a general interaction between players (both as town and scum). I'm particularly bad at building cases though. My best successes were when I had a gun, and I have a 100% hit rate because I don't need to convince anyone.

My issue with rdr is that prior to EOD3/BON3 I didn't really follow his thoughts. They either seemed wrong, or unexplained in a way I could follow, or pulled from thin air. It just seemed unlike him (to me at least, I usually find him very clear and logical which I enjoy). Starting N3 he seemed to shift and make a lot of sense. So I had 2 reactions:

1) Oh...It's been me; I'm off, he's fine
2) Wait...he's alone now, so he's changed his playstyle
3) PoE I still think Llama or rdr winning as scum would be town screwing up. Durga I'm less sure about than I was, but still willing to pay off to it. Doom at the time I was very willing to pay off to.

I didn't remember a scum slip by him. Did a search for "scumslip" and "scum slip" and reread his and my N3 and D4. Still not sure what you're asking. So I guess the answer is: clearly not memorably important.

Question for you: Why did someone kill TFB? Why did they kill snowy? Why did they kill ghug? I'm surprised you haven't been digging into this, it's what I'd be doing if I were rereading the game 5 times.

BunnyGo
Posts: 10324
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
Karma: 3260

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2885 Post by BunnyGo » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:51 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:08 am
maybe it is doom
or i should go to bed
What made you say this?

BunnyGo
Posts: 10324
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
Karma: 3260

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2886 Post by BunnyGo » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:52 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:46 am
damn i can't believe they killed off literally everyone in a non central/eastern timezone
Aren't you pacific?

Durga
Posts: 8834
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4257

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2887 Post by Durga » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:55 pm

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:08 am
maybe it is doom
or i should go to bed
Why would it be doom

Durga
Posts: 8834
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4257

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2888 Post by Durga » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:56 pm

Bunny, what's with your sleep schedule

Doom427
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:54 am
Karma: 973

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2889 Post by Doom427 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:03 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:52 am
DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:46 am
damn i can't believe they killed off literally everyone in a non central/eastern timezone
Aren't you pacific?
Don't answer that Death! It'll mean they'll kill you next :(

BunnyGo
Posts: 10324
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
Karma: 3260

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2890 Post by BunnyGo » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:06 pm

Durga wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:56 pm
Bunny, what's with your sleep schedule
I’ve been trying to train myself to get up at 5 so I can get off work at 2 and be with my kids. But this week I’m visiting my grandmother and cousin and dad while maintaining my work schedule. So I’m up till midnight socializing but up at 5-6 to work.

And sadly work is crazy.

BunnyGo
Posts: 10324
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
Karma: 3260

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2891 Post by BunnyGo » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:13 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:06 pm
Durga wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:56 pm
Bunny, what's with your sleep schedule
I’ve been trying to train myself to get up at 5 so I can get off work at 2 and be with my kids. But this week I’m visiting my grandmother and cousin and dad while maintaining my work schedule. So I’m up till midnight socializing but up at 5-6 to work.

And sadly work is crazy.
Normally the best part of being an actuary vs mathematician/data scientist/coder etc is I don’t work nearly as hard. Projects that would be expected to take a day to a week as any of those other jobs take 6 months. But sadly deadlines are being missed and I’m trying to push the dumpster fire over the finish line and screwed up.
1

Doom427
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:54 am
Karma: 973

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2892 Post by Doom427 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:30 pm

I've mostly been trying to game out the final three since last night, and where I'm at is

Reads- 2 mostly town, 1 Nya, 2 Possible Scum.

If we kill me or Death today, I'm worried about endgame, but that isn't happening so we can skip the Nya/Scum combo.

2 Town/1 Nya- because of how random that kill would be, most of it would be spent trying to figure out why that was the night kill. Would likely raise spectre of if towncore are not town.

2 Town/1 Scum- Rarest option I think- if Town is actually scum, they would just choose to be lone town with 2 scum, and scum team wouldn't want to kill most likely miskill. If it does happen, WIFOM craziness I guess

So, the ones that could actually happen-

1 Town/1 Nya/1 scum-Would default to just killing scum, and hoping that will turn up with the last scum. If Nya or Town are scum, they'll likely be totally safe. Good if we feel 100% confident Durga/Bunny are scum, but otherwise is weak if we feel unsure with Sabi/ Me and Death.

1 Town/2 Scum- Basically, all groups put forward their best case and reads. Bunny and Durga have to defend themselves/read the other, and we'll have the most amount of information at this point. Good if both parties feel confident about their ability to convince the town core, and also gives us best chance of killing towncore if they are scum (because this option will, imo, give the most amount of opportunity for Durga/Bunny to think their both town, so if Death is playing a crazy game, we have chance here)


This is the main reason why I think voting out Sabi makes the most sense. I'm pretty sure Death is town, but obv. not 100%. Bunny and Durga will keep giving reads and talking, and that extra info feels more likely to help all players. The biggest problem is I don't think an extra day will give more information from Sabi one way or the other. But another night and day will give more info about everyone else in the game.

BunnyGo
Posts: 10324
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
Karma: 3260

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2893 Post by BunnyGo » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:42 pm

Doom427 wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:30 pm
I've mostly been trying to game out the final three since last night, and where I'm at is

Reads- 2 mostly town, 1 Nya, 2 Possible Scum.

If we kill me or Death today, I'm worried about endgame, but that isn't happening so we can skip the Nya/Scum combo.

2 Town/1 Nya- because of how random that kill would be, most of it would be spent trying to figure out why that was the night kill. Would likely raise spectre of if towncore are not town.

2 Town/1 Scum- Rarest option I think- if Town is actually scum, they would just choose to be lone town with 2 scum, and scum team wouldn't want to kill most likely miskill. If it does happen, WIFOM craziness I guess

So, the ones that could actually happen-

1 Town/1 Nya/1 scum-Would default to just killing scum, and hoping that will turn up with the last scum. If Nya or Town are scum, they'll likely be totally safe. Good if we feel 100% confident Durga/Bunny are scum, but otherwise is weak if we feel unsure with Sabi/ Me and Death.

1 Town/2 Scum- Basically, all groups put forward their best case and reads. Bunny and Durga have to defend themselves/read the other, and we'll have the most amount of information at this point. Good if both parties feel confident about their ability to convince the town core, and also gives us best chance of killing towncore if they are scum (because this option will, imo, give the most amount of opportunity for Durga/Bunny to think their both town, so if Death is playing a crazy game, we have chance here)


This is the main reason why I think voting out Sabi makes the most sense. I'm pretty sure Death is town, but obv. not 100%. Bunny and Durga will keep giving reads and talking, and that extra info feels more likely to help all players. The biggest problem is I don't think an extra day will give more information from Sabi one way or the other. But another night and day will give more info about everyone else in the game.
What does nya mean?

Are you going to pay off to your read on DL being wrong if neither of you die tonight? It seems like you’re calling your shot without considering what the actions would indicate. Suppose that DL is the witch and we DK Sabi, who *should* deathllama NK?

Suppose I die tonight after we DK Sabi: why would the witch!Durga do that? Why would witch!deathLlama do that? (I’m assuming you’re town for these questions)

Suppose DL dies tonight after we kill Sabi: why would witch!durga choose him over you? Why would witch!bunny? Both seem weird to me. But there’s a reason it happens.

Doom427
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:54 am
Karma: 973

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2894 Post by Doom427 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:04 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:42 pm

What does nya mean?

Are you going to pay off to your read on DL being wrong if neither of you die tonight? It seems like you’re calling your shot without considering what the actions would indicate. Suppose that DL is the witch and we DK Sabi, who *should* deathllama NK?

Suppose I die tonight after we DK Sabi: why would the witch!Durga do that? Why would witch!deathLlama do that? (I’m assuming you’re town for these questions)

Suppose DL dies tonight after we kill Sabi: why would witch!durga choose him over you? Why would witch!bunny? Both seem weird to me. But there’s a reason it happens.
Nya is NAI, it's an anime joke.

Deathllama should NK me, same as I should NK deathllama. Same as basically everyone else- we're getting the most townreads, so we're the safest kills.

Witch Durga would do that to attempt to question the towncore, and Deathllama would do that because WIFOM. ("Of course I wouldn't do that, why would I ever do that? If I was scum I Would never do that, so I can't be scum").

Durga doing it goes pretty far to clear her name, b/c as scum her best move is to leave the other scum arround to daykill. So it would force both town players to investigate the other a lot more. Not a bad option, if Durga was worried about you convincing one of the town players that you're right. DL has rather limited reasons to want to kill you, though. It would only really be because it's "clears" him, as a scum player voting off the other two scum players AND removing one of the most scum read players when they could be the most townread going into Endgame? Wouldn't happen.

As far as me vs DL, that's just WIFOM all the way down. It's possible they think DL is more town clear, I guess, or that they think I'm more easy to manipulate, but... it doesn't really lend any difference between the two of you, as far as I can tell.

Could you explain what you mean by "Both seem weird to me. But there's a reason it happens?" What's weird about killing DL?

Durga
Posts: 8834
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4257

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2895 Post by Durga » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:21 pm

Honestly no reason for me as scum to push Sabi instead of bunny here. Scum chances of winning are far higher with Sabi in end game si yeah idk. I'm also not entirely willing to mark off death as confirmed town should we both be together next day

BunnyGo
Posts: 10324
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
Karma: 3260

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2896 Post by BunnyGo » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:17 pm

Doom427 wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:04 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:42 pm

What does nya mean?

Are you going to pay off to your read on DL being wrong if neither of you die tonight? It seems like you’re calling your shot without considering what the actions would indicate. Suppose that DL is the witch and we DK Sabi, who *should* deathllama NK?

Suppose I die tonight after we DK Sabi: why would the witch!Durga do that? Why would witch!deathLlama do that? (I’m assuming you’re town for these questions)

Suppose DL dies tonight after we kill Sabi: why would witch!durga choose him over you? Why would witch!bunny? Both seem weird to me. But there’s a reason it happens.
Nya is NAI, it's an anime joke.

Deathllama should NK me, same as I should NK deathllama. Same as basically everyone else- we're getting the most townreads, so we're the safest kills.

Witch Durga would do that to attempt to question the towncore, and Deathllama would do that because WIFOM. ("Of course I wouldn't do that, why would I ever do that? If I was scum I Would never do that, so I can't be scum").

Durga doing it goes pretty far to clear her name, b/c as scum her best move is to leave the other scum arround to daykill. So it would force both town players to investigate the other a lot more. Not a bad option, if Durga was worried about you convincing one of the town players that you're right. DL has rather limited reasons to want to kill you, though. It would only really be because it's "clears" him, as a scum player voting off the other two scum players AND removing one of the most scum read players when they could be the most townread going into Endgame? Wouldn't happen.

As far as me vs DL, that's just WIFOM all the way down. It's possible they think DL is more town clear, I guess, or that they think I'm more easy to manipulate, but... it doesn't really lend any difference between the two of you, as far as I can tell.

Could you explain what you mean by "Both seem weird to me. But there's a reason it happens?" What's weird about killing DL?
I think in general it’s a weird choice for a witch to kill someone who has been scum read by the other remaining town.

Similar to your statement of “Wouldn’t happen.” If I’m scum, why kill the person I’m pushing for a miskill? If Durgas scum, why kill the person the other town is focusing on? If you’re scum, then why not kill Durga and get an easy push on me? IfSabi dies today and isn’t scum, and DL dies tonight then the scum has done something to help me find them. The reason you/Durga would do it is hard to fathom behind thinking it’s easier to get me as the final miskill (but DL is onboard for that too, so I don’t get it).

BunnyGo
Posts: 10324
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
Karma: 3260

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2897 Post by BunnyGo » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:21 pm

BesharamSabi wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:34 am
DeathLlama8 wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:31 am
Durga wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:29 am
Okay Sabi, if you're actually town can you stop asking for death please. It's easier to defend you if you're also defending yourself
^^ if you're town, please help me understand that you're town
Well if I was scum I would have jumped on bunny making a wagon on you and also voted for you. I don't get scum reads off you even with the tunneling on me. I have no hard scum reads at this point in the game. In my order of scumminess:

Tfb
Bun
Doom
Durga
Death
Rdr

(did I miss anyone?)
This is Sabis most recent scum read ranking. I don’t see them really updating it. So why @Durga do you think you could win as scum with Sabi at KiLo? If you’ve already pushed me (as you said) I think Sabi is as likely to vote you as the other person. Or do you just think Sabi is an easy KiLo miskill?

Durga
Posts: 8834
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4257

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2898 Post by Durga » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:26 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:21 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:34 am
DeathLlama8 wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:31 am


^^ if you're town, please help me understand that you're town
Well if I was scum I would have jumped on bunny making a wagon on you and also voted for you. I don't get scum reads off you even with the tunneling on me. I have no hard scum reads at this point in the game. In my order of scumminess:

Tfb
Bun
Doom
Durga
Death
Rdr

(did I miss anyone?)
This is Sabis most recent scum read ranking. I don’t see them really updating it. So why @Durga do you think you could win as scum with Sabi at KiLo? If you’ve already pushed me (as you said) I think Sabi is as likely to vote you as the other person. Or do you just think Sabi is an easy KiLo miskill?
I mean maybe, idk what Sabi would actually do in terms of the vote, but I do know they won't put too much time into this game, and are unlikely to figure out who the last scum is. And might even be an easy miskill yeah.

Durga
Posts: 8834
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4257

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2899 Post by Durga » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:27 pm

Everyone around feels townie tbh

Doom427
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:54 am
Karma: 973

Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#2900 Post by Doom427 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:29 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:17 pm

I think in general it’s a weird choice for a witch to kill someone who has been scum read by the other remaining town.

Similar to your statement of “Wouldn’t happen.” If I’m scum, why kill the person I’m pushing for a miskill? If Durgas scum, why kill the person the other town is focusing on? If you’re scum, then why not kill Durga and get an easy push on me? IfSabi dies today and isn’t scum, and DL dies tonight then the scum has done something to help me find them. The reason you/Durga would do it is hard to fathom behind thinking it’s easier to get me as the final miskill (but DL is onboard for that too, so I don’t get it).
Bunny, I'm gonna be real, this makes no sense to me.
Death/Me as scum SHOULD leave both you and Durga in the game. Because day killing Death/Me would likely not happen in that situation. We're the two most town read.

I mean, let's game it out. You/Durga would... have no incentive to kill the other sucm-read member, until our analysis goes up a level and becomes WIFOM. And because of that, town read players would have no incentive to kill one of you.

The reason to kill one of you, as you say, is to miskill the obvious scumread. But if you kill the other scumread.... you did a move the remaining scum would have no benefit to do.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests