webdiplomacy.net

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:37 pm**

List of lfischl play's

Voting Jasnah, and saying we should scan her corpse Day1
Suggesting PE is scum trying to kill PR's and also saying Bozo feels scummy, vote on Bozo Day2
End voting on Bozo, then trying to game out if Kgray was online and could push the roleblock to Chaqa Day3

Mostly just been pushing that Chaqa is cop, and saying Bozo is scummy.

I tried to do a read of others, but the easiest reads are of people who have posted umm, less.

Voting bozo when others are also voting bozo doesn't read to me as townclear (just trust your teammates, they'll come up with something), so the main thing I see interesting/indicative here is the PE comments. It is... notable that PE and Chaqa keep fighting. PE and Jamie also fought too, so my guess is PE just gets into fights?

I think a scum player probably only says this if both PE and Chaqa are towns, but I also think a town player who trusts Chaqa says this pretty much every time. Lean on thinking Lfischl is probably town? Very light lean. I'm going with a *shrug*.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:38 pm**

Vecna wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:24 pm

Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:43 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:34 pm

Agree with Kgray again. Durga also hates bussing and I hardly see her bussing for nothing in a no-reveal game.
This bussing for nothing is nonsense. Why do people keep saying this? There are essentially two potential Oracle reveals. If Oracle reveals scum, bussing scum would get incredible towncred. There is a cop and cop scan from JOAT. There are many ways scum can get revealed. (Plus, webdip is bussing happy anyway and I don’t know how much people would chance their ways to adapt to a no flip game).
This lacks some nuance though.

Its 17v4. Town has a full cop, full doc, a JOAT and the oracle.

Bussing is very dangerous when the numbers and PR powers are not the same as they are in a no reveal game.

Not saying it didnt happen. But a scum road to victory in this setup does not seem all that likely to involve a lot of bussing, when it is build around the premise that it is much easier for them to get away with protecting their teammates.

I mean, I agree with this. The whole reason this entered my brain is after the Bona attempted NK. It seems like an odd choice, and I think it’s because scum thought he was JOAT or cop and had a scan in on bozo. If that’s the case, scum may have bussed thinking bozo was a lost cause (eventually). I think kgray or Durga are most likely a) to be PR hunting and think Bona had a scan in and b) more likely to bus anyway. I find Jamie and fisch much less likely to bus in this scenario.

I know that’s a lot of what if’s, but I’m paranoid we are making assumptions about bussing and townclearing people that shouldn’t be.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:38 pm**

@Jamie - ghug is a very plausible partner to jasnah, if bozo's actions are illustrative of how mafia reacted to the jasnah situation. I don't see any immediate flaws in the theory. I have this feeling ghug is more likely to bus there than bozo is, but like Vec already said, the numbers game discourages busing on top of no-flip.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:40 pm**

Chaqa wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:16 pm

President Eden wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:54 pm
(removed rest of post for brevity)

"CASE" has a clear and unambiguous plan to soft a role that could only ever be read as either Cop crumbing a role or someone faking a crumb once revealed, but that wouldn't be immediately or obviously discovered. It is immune to accusations of happening by accident or being fabricated after the fact.

"Se7en" thoroughly lacks these qualities. The story behind it even admits that it was on some level "forced" in the sense that you fucked up your apparent first attempt at a crumb and tried to wing it and got lucky. It is really obviously not immune to accusations of happening by accident (as it partly did) or being fabricated after the fact.

You're applying hindsight logic to the situation since you know for a fact the first crumb is valid. If you were reviewing this game after the fact and not stuck in a tunnel you would give my current claim the same credence.

In a game where a cop has a n0 scan, replying to Flum saying "I trust you" on page seven, when Se7en is a movie about cops, is a fucking great crumb and so what if it was an audible? I was able to turn a minor fuckup into an S+ tier crumb.

You somehow can't give me credit for my crumb but yet you spent a sizable amount of time absolutely convinced Damo was crumbing his scan by saying "eden town" like that is an "unambiguous plan to crumb" or something.

It's really frustrating because from my perspective, and I'm pretty sure I'll be proven right after the game:
1. I pushed hard to vote out a fake claiming scum!jasnah on Day 1
2. Everyone in the galaxy-brains (including you) decided I was scummy for it
3. I claimed and everyone shit on my crumbs
4. A lot of people have spent the rest of the game shading me and everything

It's honestly exhausting and it's a big reason I haven't been hanging out in your Discord lately because I don't know if I can help but yell at you for being an idiot about this.

I'm curious about your phrasing "I'm pretty sure I'll be proven right after the game" here.

What specifically did you intend with that sentence?

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:42 pm**

Also no idea how anyone sees Doom as scum she's blatantly obvtown

If there's a new scum I'd wager it's Boat man though recently I've been pretty cool on that theory

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:42 pm**

snowy801 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:33 pm

President Eden wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:33 pm

worcej wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:30 pm
I've always been told lawyers are the scum of humanity.

Perhaps we need to flip Durga next phase just to be safe?
objection
Silence, scum of humanity. Your turn cometh

You need to speak like them.

@Eden: Overruled.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:42 pm**

I could see a world in which TFB is scum

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:44 pm**

snowy801 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:40 pm

Chaqa wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:16 pm

President Eden wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:54 pm
(removed rest of post for brevity)

"CASE" has a clear and unambiguous plan to soft a role that could only ever be read as either Cop crumbing a role or someone faking a crumb once revealed, but that wouldn't be immediately or obviously discovered. It is immune to accusations of happening by accident or being fabricated after the fact.

"Se7en" thoroughly lacks these qualities. The story behind it even admits that it was on some level "forced" in the sense that you fucked up your apparent first attempt at a crumb and tried to wing it and got lucky. It is really obviously not immune to accusations of happening by accident (as it partly did) or being fabricated after the fact.

You're applying hindsight logic to the situation since you know for a fact the first crumb is valid. If you were reviewing this game after the fact and not stuck in a tunnel you would give my current claim the same credence.

In a game where a cop has a n0 scan, replying to Flum saying "I trust you" on page seven, when Se7en is a movie about cops, is a fucking great crumb and so what if it was an audible? I was able to turn a minor fuckup into an S+ tier crumb.

You somehow can't give me credit for my crumb but yet you spent a sizable amount of time absolutely convinced Damo was crumbing his scan by saying "eden town" like that is an "unambiguous plan to crumb" or something.

It's really frustrating because from my perspective, and I'm pretty sure I'll be proven right after the game:
1. I pushed hard to vote out a fake claiming scum!jasnah on Day 1
2. Everyone in the galaxy-brains (including you) decided I was scummy for it
3. I claimed and everyone shit on my crumbs
4. A lot of people have spent the rest of the game shading me and everything

It's honestly exhausting and it's a big reason I haven't been hanging out in your Discord lately because I don't know if I can help but yell at you for being an idiot about this.
I'm curious about your phrasing "I'm pretty sure I'll be proven right after the game" here.

What specifically did you intend with that sentence?

Thart jasnah was scum

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:44 pm**

Notably I think their last minute vote on bozo may have been a panic "oh no worcej counterclaimed and I know bozo is guilty" vote rather than evidence that they're not teammates but I don't think we vote him out yet idk

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:45 pm**

Durga wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:42 pm
I could see a world in which TFB is scum

Cliff notes version? I’ll be honest I haven’t thought much about TFB

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:46 pm**

Durga wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:42 am
Hell if I was mafia and knew jasnah was mafia I'd throw her under the bus so fucking hard so fucking fast.

Eh, I think you honestly wouldn't have in this no reveal game.

Vecna already discussed the thought process I have, no need to repeat.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:46 pm**

Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:45 pm

Durga wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:42 pm
I could see a world in which TFB is scum
Cliff notes version? I’ll be honest I haven’t thought much about TFB

I feel like he's null and coasting in all the right ways. I'm not trying to make a case but I'd like to hear more from him. His d1 to me was kinda townie but he's drifted from that now.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:47 pm**

Reminder to JOAT that if you're using your final action tonight, to let us know what you've done in your EoN post.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:48 pm**

Durga wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:51 am
I'm also going to reiterate that in this particular game we're going to have to be a bit more individual in our focus than group oriented because we simply don't know the alignments of whoever flips. Our best bet is still to catch people we find the most scummy.

A good point too - I'd say interactions and opinions on others moves are 'soft indicators' where clearly bad play from the individual are 'hard indicators' of scuminess.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:48 pm**

Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:45 pm

Durga wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:42 pm
I could see a world in which TFB is scum
Cliff notes version? I’ll be honest I haven’t thought much about TFB

They're playing very scared

Used to hyperfocus on self defense until that was pointed out to him as scummy repeatedly by people (also can you guys stop doing that it's really annoying)

Has long walls of text with kind of forced ideas and reads list like they're trying to prove something

Call me crazy but they're always on but rarely active (he did say that he reads while working though which is completely fair and again I don't want it to sound like I'm saying anyone showing online has to post)

Was hyperdefending Jasnah d1 to a point which some may consider unnatural idk it made sense to me at the time but in retrospect

Among others I'm sure

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:49 pm**

A part of me is thinking the scum love pestering over the "what ifs" even though the odds are like 1%.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:49 pm**

Chaqa wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:47 pm
Reminder to JOAT that if you're using your final action tonight, to let us know what you've done in your EoN post.

Why are you so invested in what the JOAT does?

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:51 pm**

Fluminator wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:49 pm
A part of me is thinking the scum love pestering over the "what ifs" even though the odds are like 1%.

What if what specifically?

I think the only what-ifs here under 1% is worcej-bona scum team, and maaaaybe Bunny if we stretch 1% out pretty far

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:53 pm**

snowy801 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:51 pm

Fluminator wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:49 pm
A part of me is thinking the scum love pestering over the "what ifs" even though the odds are like 1%.
What if what specifically?

I think the only what-ifs here under 1% is worcej-bona scum team, and maaaaybe Bunny if we stretch 1% out pretty far

I would include those, along with the damo being cop theory.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:54 pm**

Fluminator wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:53 pm

snowy801 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:51 pm

Fluminator wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:49 pm
A part of me is thinking the scum love pestering over the "what ifs" even though the odds are like 1%.
What if what specifically?

I think the only what-ifs here under 1% is worcej-bona scum team, and maaaaybe Bunny if we stretch 1% out pretty far
I would include those, along with the damo being cop theory.

Idk who is, but I can tell you who isn't

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