M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[BunnyGo]

##VOTE BesharamSabi

Who is sussing you?

[BesharamSabi]

Definitely don't feel weird being here, especially not based on being bad at this game. We're literally all bad at this game lmao

I do feel weird lol I have just acted like my usual self and I'm getting sussed out.

Only by theflyingboat who is probably scum anyway since he can't answer a simple question.

And durga and doom and damo and snowy.

[kgray]

Okay Eden, here's a list of the reasons I found that you gave this evening that caused you to scumread Durga and my reaction to them:

1) She's had too many "I know what's going on" posts: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 04#p257604
- You give no indication of what those posts are besides the one about jasnah, and besides, I fail to see why anybody thinks scum would immediately call out a PR as fake claiming for any reason besides to CC them.

2) She's more reactive than normal: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 64#p257664
- I don't think she's more reactive than normal, and even if she were I'd think that makes her more towny. She hides as scum.

You then "clarified" and stated the following: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 06#p257806 consisting of two arguments

3) Durga's reaction indicated to you that Durga knows jasnah is both town and fake claiming.
- What possible way could this be true besides the one damo would be talking about?

4) You suggest Durga believed both jasnah and Bunny to be town very quickly, leading you to conclude she must know they're both town because she's mafia.
- I fail to see where Durga immediately believed Bunny was town, as evidenced by *you* nudging her to move her vote.

When I commented on this, you retracted (or flip-flopped, as one might say) here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 38#p257838 which leads me to

5) You suggest that she still scumread Bunny because she's mafia who is incapable of evolving her reads
- This isn't only blatantly a flip-flop, it's also literally a forced read because you say 'either way there's reason to think she's mafia' and thereby you're forcing your scumread of her on every scenario.

So if you're town, please stop whining about me having 'bad faith' questions when you're clearly doing exactly what I'm saying you're doing.

This is a lot of good digging. What should I conclude you think:

A) Durga is town and needs you defending her?
B) eden is scummy for his bad arguments?
C) you don’t really have reads yet on them, but you’re mad at Eden?
Something else?

Bunny... I'm sorry if this was a genuine comment but this is so patronizing I can hardly answer it seriously.

I do think Durga is town and I don't think she needs me to defend her. I think Eden's push on her scummy, yeah, but I don't know if he's scum. I'm not mad at Eden.

What do you think about it all?

[President Eden]

Okay Eden, here's a list of the reasons I found that you gave this evening that caused you to scumread Durga and my reaction to them:

1) She's had too many "I know what's going on" posts: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 04#p257604
- You give no indication of what those posts are besides the one about jasnah, and besides, I fail to see why anybody thinks scum would immediately call out a PR as fake claiming for any reason besides to CC them.

2) She's more reactive than normal: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 64#p257664
- I don't think she's more reactive than normal, and even if she were I'd think that makes her more towny. She hides as scum.

You then "clarified" and stated the following: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 06#p257806 consisting of two arguments

3) Durga's reaction indicated to you that Durga knows jasnah is both town and fake claiming.
- What possible way could this be true besides the one damo would be talking about?

4) You suggest Durga believed both jasnah and Bunny to be town very quickly, leading you to conclude she must know they're both town because she's mafia.
- I fail to see where Durga immediately believed Bunny was town, as evidenced by *you* nudging her to move her vote.

When I commented on this, you retracted (or flip-flopped, as one might say) here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 38#p257838 which leads me to

5) You suggest that she still scumread Bunny because she's mafia who is incapable of evolving her reads
- This isn't only blatantly a flip-flop, it's also literally a forced read because you say 'either way there's reason to think she's mafia' and thereby you're forcing your scumread of her on every scenario.

So if you're town, please stop whining about me having 'bad faith' questions when you're clearly doing exactly what I'm saying you're doing.

You are still plainly oversimplifying and inserting your own narrative all over this post instead of engaging me like somebody who is actually looking to understand. Given how fruitless my repeated efforts to explain have been, I am not going to waste anymore time arguing with you, particularly since it’s reasonably likely you are just mafia stirring the pot, judging from the lack of ultimate direction to any of your pointless nitpicking.

If my townreads want further answers then I’m happy to give them but I consider this matter resolved.

[BesharamSabi]

##VOTE BesharamSabi

Who is sussing you?

TFB and durga mainly

[TheFlyingBoat]

You said it's obvious, so lay it on me. What motivated scum Jasnah to fake claim miller?

I mean, I said obvious play, not good play, but- We're in a game with no reveals. So, with the false claim, if we kill one we do have a chance of needing to kill the other, just to be sure. If one of them saw those breadcrumbs, maybe they figured they could pull off the kill. It also changes discussion-I'd want to reread what we were discussing back then to see if that's valid or not.

And, biggest of all, it gives a great chance for other Mafia to take a big public position. It leads to this big discussion where Mafia can talk about someone else's plays and what they mean, without talking about their own plays. Hello it's not even bad to push this "Jasnah is VT" Charade. If we kill, we don't even know for sure if they were right!

And it wasn't even as risky a play it could have been. Somehow we Galaxy brained our way to thinking Jasnah is VT!
Is that reasons for the play?

Right but in a 17/4 No Reveal game play doing a 1 for 1 trade is a TERRIBLE idea for mafia on Day 1. If jasnah is scum and claimed to be the miller under no pressure she did no knowing she would force the miller to counterclaim and that it would result in both of them being DKed on consecutive days in a reasonable best case scenario OR worst case would result in just her getting DKed if the mafia NK the Oracle and she is revealed to be mafia.

That would give us a confirmed town for at least a day if the Doctor chooses to save them N2 and up to N4 if the JOAT one shots them and the Doctor protects them which means we have 5 days worth of confirmed townie and a dead scum which would be catastrophic.

The most sensible read I have on it is to accelerate the timeline on the miller claim. Most other lines of thought involve jasnah going to IQ 3000 land with a zany strat and a ton of flourish which just doesn't seem to be a good scum strat. Whether you think she's a good or bad town is up for debate, but I just can't imagine a world in which she is mafia and trying to win while playing like this.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Definitely don't feel weird being here, especially not based on being bad at this game. We're literally all bad at this game lmao

I do feel weird lol I have just acted like my usual self and I'm getting sussed out.

Only by theflyingboat who is probably scum anyway since he can't answer a simple question.

What simple question did I miss?

[Bonatogether]

Okay? I disagree that this is a good strategy. I don't know what that has to do with you thinking I'm scum.

You're obfuscating from the fact that killing the players we're likely to mess up in the absence of any consensus of any other obvious dks is direct value added in this situation.

I'm not obfuscating from it, I'm denying it's relevance. And I specifically don't see how you are coming after me with this, when you had me pegged as scum last game. Worcej I understand, because he was wrong about my alignment, but you thinking I'm the deepest scum threat is kind of nonsense.

That game you and celaph were clearly scumbuddies based on interactions. This is different because I haven't seen any overly scummy interactions between you and anyone else, and I scumread you on the basis of a variety of scumpings and denying that we should be more careful of the good scumplayers. ('I'm denying it's relevance')

You're not very deep if two clowns are voting for you.

[kgray]

I do feel weird lol I have just acted like my usual self and I'm getting sussed out.

Only by theflyingboat who is probably scum anyway since he can't answer a simple question.

And durga and doom and damo and snowy.

Durga did not, she said she expected you to contribute more. I didn't see anything where doom things you're scum, at most he thought you were claiming a PR. Damo thinks you're a NK target which explicitly means he thinks you're town. Snowy seems to be trying to figure out what you're saying, not accuse you of anything.

[BunnyGo]

Plausible but why do that which makes you obvious? It doesn't feel genuine to go straight to pitchforks, you know?

It is not completely clear to me what your perspective is. Are you saying that a true miller ought to have taken steps to ascertain whether their direct counterclaim is being serious about their claim, and that Bunny failed to do so is suspicious? In the sense that the true miller ought to have been more cautious and reluctant to immediately reveal their role?

Yes (I have been drinking but this makes sense to me).

What’s your drink? I have to get up in 6 hours or I’d be too.

I did consider waiting for jasnah to come back. I couldn’t grill her without claiming. And I couldn’t wait too long without doing an anti-town action myself. So that whole thought process influenced my post about why I have to do my best even when my teammates screw up.

[kgray]

Eden you're amazing

[Chaqa]

Ghug, can you elaborate on your “what?”

I thought I was clear? I would want to vote out both of the hard claimers if not for the fact there is an Oracle. It makes it easier to solve without doing the 50/50

[kgray]

I do feel weird lol I have just acted like my usual self and I'm getting sussed out.

Only by theflyingboat who is probably scum anyway since he can't answer a simple question.

What simple question did I miss?

@TFB kgray had a question for you I'd rather like to hear the answer to

viewtopic.php?p=257893#p257893

[President Eden]

You're obfuscating from the fact that killing the players we're likely to mess up in the absence of any consensus of any other obvious dks is direct value added in this situation.

I'm not obfuscating from it, I'm denying it's relevance. And I specifically don't see how you are coming after me with this, when you had me pegged as scum last game. Worcej I understand, because he was wrong about my alignment, but you thinking I'm the deepest scum threat is kind of nonsense.

That game you and celaph were clearly scumbuddies based on interactions. This is different because I haven't seen any overly scummy interactions between you and anyone else, and I scumread you on the basis of a variety of scumpings and denying that we should be more careful of the good scumplayers. ('I'm denying it's relevance')

You're not very deep if two clowns are voting for you.

Dumb and dumber on the case

[Doom427]

And durga and doom and damo and snowy.

Yeah, my scum read was just me not reading right at all, lol. It was not genuine reading, more confusion cause I didn't get things

[kgray]

You're obfuscating from the fact that killing the players we're likely to mess up in the absence of any consensus of any other obvious dks is direct value added in this situation.

I'm not obfuscating from it, I'm denying it's relevance. And I specifically don't see how you are coming after me with this, when you had me pegged as scum last game. Worcej I understand, because he was wrong about my alignment, but you thinking I'm the deepest scum threat is kind of nonsense.

That game you and celaph were clearly scumbuddies based on interactions. This is different because I haven't seen any overly scummy interactions between you and anyone else, and I scumread you on the basis of a variety of scumpings and denying that we should be more careful of the good scumplayers. ('I'm denying it's relevance')

You're not very deep if two clowns are voting for you.

Well Eden is certainly a clown, that's for sure. And I don't know what world you think I'd be a proponent of a nonsensical strategy that targets me. It's objectively bad for town.

[kgray]

@Tom I'd like to know what you think about making me be a wagon because I'm good at playing scum, since this is all your fault anyway.

[TheFlyingBoat]

I want to know why theflyingboat decided to encourage bona starting my wagon when he's got scumreads and I'm not one of them. And I don't want to hear anything about it being because I'm 'strong scum' because he said that in response to an actual case bona was making on me and not to worcej and damo's earlier nonsense.

My response to bona's post in question:

"This is actually interesting I am still leaning Flum, but that kill strong scum in an NR game does seem somewhat reasonable to me as well."

Literally I never touched the substance of the case against you AT ALL. The only part of it I said seemed reasonable was the KILL STRONG SCUM part. You can say you don't want to hear it all you want, but that's literally the only part of the post I even touched. This attempt to deflect onto me is incredibly weird though. You'll note despite me "encouraging" a wagon on you that my vote is on worcej who I mentioned having a negative read on and I explicitly mentioned Flum as someone I wanted targeted more.

[Bonatogether]

I'm not obfuscating from it, I'm denying it's relevance. And I specifically don't see how you are coming after me with this, when you had me pegged as scum last game. Worcej I understand, because he was wrong about my alignment, but you thinking I'm the deepest scum threat is kind of nonsense.

That game you and celaph were clearly scumbuddies based on interactions. This is different because I haven't seen any overly scummy interactions between you and anyone else, and I scumread you on the basis of a variety of scumpings and denying that we should be more careful of the good scumplayers. ('I'm denying it's relevance')

You're not very deep if two clowns are voting for you.

Well Eden is certainly a clown, that's for sure. And I don't know what world you think I'd be a proponent of a nonsensical strategy that targets me. It's objectively bad for town.

town!kgray world

Why is it nonsensisical?

Why is it bad if it targets you?

Why is it 'objectively' bad for town?

[BesharamSabi]

Only by theflyingboat who is probably scum anyway since he can't answer a simple question.

And durga and doom and damo and snowy.

Durga did not, she said she expected you to contribute more. I didn't see anything where doom things you're scum, at most he thought you were claiming a PR. Damo thinks you're a NK target which explicitly means he thinks you're town. Snowy seems to be trying to figure out what you're saying, not accuse you of anything.

OK you're right. I'm just dumb and overthinking