M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Vecna]

its good sabi, now youre also awake at this time youre in the perfect rhytm to play R1 as well tomorrow

[ghug]

And here I am still stuck in yesterday.

[BesharamSabi]

its good sabi, now youre also awake at this time youre in the perfect rhytm to play R1 as well tomorrow

Unfortunately don't think I can. I might be going on a date tomorrow night but if I don't, I will spectate your game

[Vecna]

I didn't change my story. You kept oversimplifying it and forcing me to continue explaining it in different ways that would hopefully communicate the point in a manner impervious to bad faith questions. Judging from your most recent comment I still have not succeeded.

I will reread your comments, but I do not believe I have oversimplified them. It seems to me like you've made a lot of arguments that all point to Durga being scum in basically any scenario.

So my last question was certainly not in bad faith; I don't understand what's making you come around on her.

I made two alternative arguments. They are exclusive and point to different characteristics of mafia behavior. They do point to Durga being mafia in either scenario, though both are, as I have repeatedly emphasized, not 100% lockdown logical cases.

One, the one that I considered most likely, involves her believing Bunny to be town. It stems from the fact that she thought jasnah's claim was obviously fake but also coming from town, and did so more or less immediately as the controversy erupted. If she also thought BG was town then she essentially nearly instantly knew that both claimants were town, which was not at all clear from the situation at the time. It's not something that may be readily apparent in hindsight, and as far as I know you weren't there when everything happened, so that might not seem very odd, but it was a very rapid conclusion to reach if one didn't already know the alignments of both people involved.

Two, the one I considered less likely, is that she purported to believe Bunny was mafia. That would involve him fakeclaiming Miller and both claims being fake. It struck me that this is the type of conclusion mafia might reach when they started with contrived positions and have to adjust in the moment to new information.

As it happens, she did believe Bunny was mafia, but initially thought it was a mafia gambit, and started to come around upon realizing that this doesn't make sense. If I'm honest, I'm not 100% convinced at all, but it strikes me that somebody going into the controversy believing BG to be mafia would take a bit longer than maybe they "should" to see that his claim is almost certainly genuine.

I do find it weird that you argue that all these things happened instantaneous, while the initial jasnah claim happened quite a long time before the bunny claim.

However, if the conclusion indeed was that that Jasnah was town fakeclaiming, then voting bunny when he claimed was strange.

[Vecna]

You said it's obvious, so lay it on me. What motivated scum Jasnah to fake claim miller?

I mean, I said obvious play, not good play, but- We're in a game with no reveals. So, with the false claim, if we kill one we do have a chance of needing to kill the other, just to be sure. If one of them saw those breadcrumbs, maybe they figured they could pull off the kill. It also changes discussion-I'd want to reread what we were discussing back then to see if that's valid or not.

And, biggest of all, it gives a great chance for other Mafia to take a big public position. It leads to this big discussion where Mafia can talk about someone else's plays and what they mean, without talking about their own plays. Hello it's not even bad to push this "Jasnah is VT" Charade. If we kill, we don't even know for sure if they were right!

And it wasn't even as risky a play it could have been. Somehow we Galaxy brained our way to thinking Jasnah is VT!
Is that reasons for the play?

And indeed, some caution is warranted. When one has an awareness of how black and white people in these games reason as when it comes to arguments of the nature of "Y would never do X as Z" - it also becomes inherently easy to try and abuse such notions with a gimmick.

Theres plenty of town motivated reasons to do said gimmick. I just really fail to see the reasoning of why lashing out at Bunny and PE afterwards in a "this should die for town wellfare" type of deal. It doesnt really match at all with most of the motivations that would usually go alongside with a gimmick like it, and it just feels like its meant to drive home a point in an over the top way ("scum would never do this").

But im sure she'll gladly explain the overly obvious thing that im missing.

[Vecna]

Bullshit argument.

Any given town member is expendable.

Your statement does not address any of my questions, moreover.

Alright bona, I don't have the energy for this.

Perhaps you can answer tomorrow?

Bona is playing in the same style as his last towngame, but he seems a lot sharper this time around.

[President Eden]

Anyway Sabi, snowy did a good job picking up where I left off:

Yes (I have been drinking but this makes sense to me).

There's no right or wrong answer here, this is a thought exercise to help you develop your perspective here for the benefit of those (including myself, but mostly other people) who would like to understand it better.

Suppose you were the Miller, not BG. When jasnah claimed, how do you imagine you might have approached jasnah's claim?

I have woken up too early so here we go :

I would have asked jasnah questions. While waiting for a response I would check jasnah game history of she has ever made similar claims before. I would ask more pressing questions before I decided to burn at the stake.

I see. And as best you can figure from the outside, the fact that you would know jasnah to be lying about the Miller claim wouldn’t affect that decision-making?

[President Eden]

Alright bona, I don't have the energy for this.

Perhaps you can answer tomorrow?

Bona is playing in the same style as his last towngame, but he seems a lot sharper this time around.

He’s excited to finally be playing with me

[Vecna]

The only reason I’m not pushing to 50/50 jasnah and Bunny is the Oracle.

Failing those two… maybe no kill? Xd

##Vote worcej

The oracle play to confirm the other of us is only guaranteed to work if jasnah or I die today...

This error keeps popping up too often, and the wrong assumptions are starting to annoy me.

Oracle: choses a target each night that died. When the oracle dies, that target is revealed publicly.

JOAT: One shot gravedigger ability. The JOAT learns of the role of the dead person he targets.

Neither of these abilities are reliable ways to learn on D2 what the identity of our day 1 kill was.

Its very unlikely the Oracle gets NK'd N1

The joat cannot out yet on D2

Stop basing your silly plays on whatever an oracle can do for us in magical fairy land. It likely aint gonna happen.

[Vecna]

wait i thought i was scum

You could sheep snowy as any alignment, and it seemed to me that inquiring about why you're doing so would just lead you to explain why snowy is town, which I already believe. So I didn't bother asking. But you're more than welcome to weigh in if you like :)

It's actually really sad because she used to sheep me. Snowy has apparently replaced me.

now you know it feels

[Vecna]

I mean the obvious way to square the circle where both of your read on liking me as town and not liking the worcej is to just assume I am a dumb town...wouldn't be the most far fetched thing ever haha. Like I said though my worcej read is weak at best and fluminator is my ideal wagon.

You keep saying no one will vote me but you haven't even attempted to get something going. Based on your earlier posts I felt like you'd be more of a take charge personality instead of being entirely reactive.

If I thought it would succeed I would go for it. My primary objective here is to prevent either jasnah or Bunny from dying as I have them as close to 100% town. I am happy to kill anyone who I don't have strong town feelings on as I think odds there are better. I put my vote on worcej because at the time there was a wagon on him and I thought that was the best horse to save my two strongest town reads. Seeing as how the worcej wagon seems to be dead, maybe I will lead a wagon where I think it ought to go.

Your posting was erratic, large parts of it seemingly intentionally pointless with weird attempts to test the bot, and you claimed to want to prove activity for the sake of avoiding a day kill but haven't actually done much to even try to be useful. I also did not like that you were so anti-day kill and tried to shield those who were anti-day kill from being voted for (even if as a joke), when I think being anti-day kill is incredibly suspect behavior for a town.


##VOTE FLUMINATOR


You're right I should be the change I want to see in the world.

hmmmm

[Jamiet99uk]

Awake and catching up.

I saw this:

Also where the hell is Jasnah? I feel that she should be held responsible for creating the situation she has birthed.

We're talking circles around the contention when we can ask the source.

Agree.

It's 12am in the United Kingdom, mate, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm in the United Kingdom and I can tell the time. I'm not sure why you felt the need to speak up on Jasnah's behalf there.

Also I notice that Jasnah has not posted again and has just vanished.

[BunnyGo]

I'm not sure I'm buying this jasnah wagon even though I'm super secretly on it.

Tom's the only name on there there that I'm a bit suprised is on though.

What would you have us do? Pay off to doublebluff scumplay? Encourage antiteam townplay? I suppose we could get the cop in on it too. This starts to throw more town resources at a problem with an otherwise simple solution.

Maybe I'm tunneling because my role mostly sucks for town but has 1 use. And the use is to win a CC and help town get a good kill.

[BunnyGo]

##VOTE bunnygo

We haven’t really met. Do you think I’m making a deep scum play here? Do you just not like me? Do you think I’m not the Miller?

The weird part is, bunny really isnt acting like the miller either

What do you mean? I'm up early. Got my flour to distribute. Today was grinding corn.

Not expecting to stay long in this game. So my best contribution is to keep town from self destructing as best I can.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Awake and catching up.

I saw this:

Agree.

It's 12am in the United Kingdom, mate, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm in the United Kingdom and I can tell the time. I'm not sure why you felt the need to speak up on Jasnah's behalf there.

Also I notice that Jasnah has not posted again and has just vanished.

I know you're in the UK. The name gave it away. I felt the need to say something because if she's not online we can't "ask the source" and instead need to productive sleuthing ourselves.

[damo666]

Damo why do you think I'm voting you?

Dunno.

Btw 20 odd pp behind so unaware of any developments since my unvote

[BunnyGo]

The only reason I’m not pushing to 50/50 jasnah and Bunny is the Oracle.

Failing those two… maybe no kill? Xd

##Vote worcej

The oracle play to confirm the other of us is only guaranteed to work if jasnah or I die today...

This error keeps popping up too often, and the wrong assumptions are starting to annoy me.

Oracle: choses a target each night that died. When the oracle dies, that target is revealed publicly.

JOAT: One shot gravedigger ability. The JOAT learns of the role of the dead person he targets.

Neither of these abilities are reliable ways to learn on D2 what the identity of our day 1 kill was.

Its very unlikely the Oracle gets NK'd N1

The joat cannot out yet on D2

Stop basing your silly plays on whatever an oracle can do for us in magical fairy land. It likely aint gonna happen.

My post was in response to Chaqa's claim of how the oracle works, not advocating.

My play is less silly: jasnah needs to be gone because she's good enough to anticipate the "scum would never fake this" response and ride it.

[BunnyGo]

Damo why do you think I'm voting you?

Dunno.

Btw 20 odd pp behind so unaware of any developments since my unvote

Nothing you couldn't have guessed at.

[Jamiet99uk]

the meta post that had 0 effort

Good now apply this to this game

alright nerd

this is everyone's alignment based on my meta post

<snipped for key observations>

bozo is scummy under my metric

flum isn't playing to meta

jamie doesn't have enough posts to read

boat guy hasn't said much

@Bona:

At the time you posted this I had made 55 posts, the majority of which were directly engaging with the game state, including the Miller discussion, questions of "PR hunting", responses to questions, and interaction with people such as Vecna shading me.

Yet your view was that I had not made enough posts to read?

At the same point in time Bozo had about 33 posts, and you had a read on him.

At the same point in time Fluminator had made 32 posts, and you had a read on him.

At the same point in time, TheFlyingBoat had made 68 posts, and "hasn't said much".

These comments appear to be highly inconsistent. Are your "meta reads" totally fake, or what?

[damo666]

Observations so far:

Sabi as vocal newb very likely town
PE obvtown
Durga TV
Jamie absent
Worcej strangely makes his list announcement redundant by it's very announcement (could be a dk candidate)
Flum scum or bad
Doom ?
Chaqa tad off
Tfb suspicious
Kgray likely town

Rest: playing to meta

Damo, why were you voting kgray if you read her as town?

The quote is doctored. You trying to catch me out?