M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

Yeah that's fair. It wasn't an immediate realization I had so the progression was a little weird

Sorry I'm confused. You thought he was the doc when he claimed it, but you didn't immediately realize that made you townread him?

I didn’t immediately fully believe him, but I did pretty soon after

You responded immediately that you believed him, though? If that was not as unironic as you say, what changed your mind?

[Chaqa]

We're not flipping snowy, what

You were scumreading and voting him yesterday, what changed?

[Tom Bombadil]

At work and can’t keep up with you maniacs all the time.

I still sorta like giving Oracle a useful dead person rather than almost certainly scum bozo. (Though I suppose with multiple near clears scum probably aren’t going to hit Oracle anyways so we could probably just dispatch bozo here)

##vote President Eden for now. Will fully catch-up at lunch.

I also think kgray is still a possibility. Assume scum killed Bona because they thought they had a guilty scan on bozo. Kgray could have picked up on this and bussed bozo. Certainly bussing does make sense in a setup with oracles as it could give scum deep cover if a dead scum is revealed. Also would help explain why her counterwagon fizzled and wagons started on me and TFB (to a lesser degree)

I think either of these would be a better Oracle target than bozo.

What the heck Tom. I'm still a possibility because the scumread I pushed that turned out to be (almost certainly) scum could have just been me bussing? That's not even a reason to scumread me, it's just claiming that anything I'm doing could still be done by scum.

Gladiatore ole

No. At least not right now.

[Chaqa]

Sorry I'm confused. You thought he was the doc when he claimed it, but you didn't immediately realize that made you townread him?

I didn’t immediately fully believe him, but I did pretty soon after

You responded immediately that you believed him, though? If that was not as unironic as you say, what changed your mind?

You’re asking me about things that happened a few days ago, this is about as much as you’re gonna get. Sorry.

[kgray]

##vote bozo I won’t be here for EOD and I think he’s more scummy than kgray

I'm gonna semi-townclear lfischl for this

[worcej]

But you have UK in your name

gotta love americans....

Do they not have sarcasm in north USA?

Excellent slap on our 'special friends' from the North.

[worcej]

Also - 23 frikken pages to catch up on and this is still the day phase where there is an open scum on the block.

I can't even with ya'll

[worcej]

My biggest holdup on speed-hammering Bozo is that I don't really see why mafia would target Bona, and I don't see why worcej would protect Bona, when there's people like myself, Bunny, worcej himself, and even Flum alive.

Bozo's save target makes more sense.

I think taking out a potential Doctor is never worth it until we have to, because let's say Bozo is actually the Doc somehow, we will not ever have a chance to get doc save, and it means mafia can continue to just roleblock me.

Leaving both of them alive guarantees EVERY SINGLE NIGHT is a difficult WIFOM battle for the mafia.

I think I already addressed this in my posting, so go see my early phase posts for why I targeted Bona.

[Chaqa]

My biggest holdup on speed-hammering Bozo is that I don't really see why mafia would target Bona, and I don't see why worcej would protect Bona, when there's people like myself, Bunny, worcej himself, and even Flum alive.

Bozo's save target makes more sense.

I think taking out a potential Doctor is never worth it until we have to, because let's say Bozo is actually the Doc somehow, we will not ever have a chance to get doc save, and it means mafia can continue to just roleblock me.

Leaving both of them alive guarantees EVERY SINGLE NIGHT is a difficult WIFOM battle for the mafia.

I think I already addressed this in my posting, so go see my early phase posts for why I targeted Bona.

Yeah I just don't really buy it, or the mafia shooting Bona in the first place.

Of course, I also don't see much reason for mafia to make this play and trade 2-for-1.

So my default is to delay the decision for now.

[worcej]

It's possible that scum didn't bother using the RB at all, right? They might have just thought going for Bona was out of the blue enough to avoid the doc, letting scum!Chaqa continue to claim it?

If they really thought Bona or damo was the real cop, it could be worth it to them to just not RB. But I don't know if it's likely unless they're really desperate for Chaqa to go deep. They could have just let him claim a scan.

This is possible.

If Chaqa is actually scum, then they're only options are to continue to fake-claim it on him or stack it on the kill because the second another RB claim comes out, Chaqa's in trouble.

[worcej]

My biggest holdup on speed-hammering Bozo is that I don't really see why mafia would target Bona, and I don't see why worcej would protect Bona, when there's people like myself, Bunny, worcej himself, and even Flum alive.

Bozo's save target makes more sense.

I think taking out a potential Doctor is never worth it until we have to, because let's say Bozo is actually the Doc somehow, we will not ever have a chance to get doc save, and it means mafia can continue to just roleblock me.

Leaving both of them alive guarantees EVERY SINGLE NIGHT is a difficult WIFOM battle for the mafia.

I think I already addressed this in my posting, so go see my early phase posts for why I targeted Bona.

Yeah I just don't really buy it, or the mafia shooting Bona in the first place.

Of course, I also don't see much reason for mafia to make this play and trade 2-for-1.

So my default is to delay the decision for now.

Why wouldn't you buy it?

If your plan is to go into a CC showdown with the actual cop, eliminating someone who is firmly against your guy is a smart play. That was the cornerstone of my analysis with the additional spice that maybe Bona is the actual cop, because of how certain he was against bozo.

So that's what made him a potential target, so then I looked at others and saw I had Vecna and kgray too, who I thought the scum would think I would target, so I decided to risk it and prioritize on Bona, who was kinda scum read but also firmly anti-bozo.

[worcej]

I think I already addressed this in my posting, so go see my early phase posts for why I targeted Bona.

Yeah I just don't really buy it, or the mafia shooting Bona in the first place.

Of course, I also don't see much reason for mafia to make this play and trade 2-for-1.

So my default is to delay the decision for now.

Why wouldn't you buy it?

If your plan is to go into a CC showdown with the actual cop, eliminating someone who is firmly against your guy is a smart play. That was the cornerstone of my analysis with the additional spice that maybe Bona is the actual cop, because of how certain he was against bozo.

So that's what made him a potential target, so then I looked at others and saw I had Vecna and kgray too, who I thought the scum would think I would target, so I decided to risk it and prioritize on Bona, who was kinda scum read but also firmly anti-bozo.

cop = doctor, my bad.

[Chaqa]

Does Kgray normally tunnel this much?

@Kgray do you normally tunnel this much?

[worcej]

Ok, I don't... Really understand the world where Mafia go for Bona? I mean, it clearly happened, but I don't know why? WorceJ had a decent explanation of it, that relied on Bona being cop, and Mafia picks up on that, but then that requires both Mafia night kills to be cop fishing?!?!? And Bona said VT, so like, where are we? Winning, but where?

Sacrificing two players for this gambit makes little sense, but if the only explanation is cop fishing, than Chaqa HAS to be scum. I guess scum Chaqa would REALLY want to kill the cop, but it's so obvious, if there's no other reason to go for Damo & Bona. Bozo's save is also bad, but I can sorta see why someone would go for town clear? But risking two players? It's too much. And if Chaqa is Scum, that leaves another cop hiding out there?!?!? Feel really bad for Mafia team honestly if that's what's happening.

I don't think he 'has' to be scum, but the potential has raised from 0.1% to like 4% for me.

[worcej]

It's possible that scum didn't bother using the RB at all, right? They might have just thought going for Bona was out of the blue enough to avoid the doc, letting scum!Chaqa continue to claim it?

If they really thought Bona or damo was the real cop, it could be worth it to them to just not RB. But I don't know if it's likely unless they're really desperate for Chaqa to go deep. They could have just let him claim a scan.

I just can't imagine why they wouldn't role block the real doc, and when the doc said they were blocked, the other doc said no, they were blocked instead?

Which means... Chaqa has to be cop?!?!?

This is all WIFOM and you shouldn't really swirl it so much. It'll distract you from the ongoing actions.

[Chaqa]

I think I already addressed this in my posting, so go see my early phase posts for why I targeted Bona.

Yeah I just don't really buy it, or the mafia shooting Bona in the first place.

Of course, I also don't see much reason for mafia to make this play and trade 2-for-1.

So my default is to delay the decision for now.

Why wouldn't you buy it?

If your plan is to go into a CC showdown with the actual cop, eliminating someone who is firmly against your guy is a smart play. That was the cornerstone of my analysis with the additional spice that maybe Bona is the actual cop, because of how certain he was against bozo.

So that's what made him a potential target, so then I looked at others and saw I had Vecna and kgray too, who I thought the scum would think I would target, so I decided to risk it and prioritize on Bona, who was kinda scum read but also firmly anti-bozo.

I think if I were in mafia's shoes I'd just roleblock you and kill me. Yeah, it would resolve the question of if I'm mafia or Cop, but I think mafia has probably given up on that one anyway, so they could have killed me tonight and you tomorrow and taken out 2 PRs for 1 Bozo with a few obvious nightkills lined up afterward.

Unless mafia is counting on having to get me or you or miskilled during the day in order to win, which would probably mean there's some deep cover scum.

[worcej]

It's possible that scum didn't bother using the RB at all, right? They might have just thought going for Bona was out of the blue enough to avoid the doc, letting scum!Chaqa continue to claim it?

If they really thought Bona or damo was the real cop, it could be worth it to them to just not RB. But I don't know if it's likely unless they're really desperate for Chaqa to go deep. They could have just let him claim a scan.

I just can't imagine why they wouldn't role block the real doc, and when the doc said they were blocked, the other doc said no, they were blocked instead?

Which means... Chaqa has to be cop?!?!?

Yeah I think it only works if they think Bona is a random enough target that the cop would never save him.

Imagine worcej's ego if that's what happened...

I am so excited for GT access to see the scum QT chat for N2 and then comments from damo, Demon, and Darg.

[snowy801]

I think I already addressed this in my posting, so go see my early phase posts for why I targeted Bona.

Yeah I just don't really buy it, or the mafia shooting Bona in the first place.

Of course, I also don't see much reason for mafia to make this play and trade 2-for-1.

So my default is to delay the decision for now.

Why wouldn't you buy it?

If your plan is to go into a CC showdown with the actual cop, eliminating someone who is firmly against your guy is a smart play. That was the cornerstone of my analysis with the additional spice that maybe Bona is the actual cop, because of how certain he was against bozo.

So that's what made him a potential target, so then I looked at others and saw I had Vecna and kgray too, who I thought the scum would think I would target, so I decided to risk it and prioritize on Bona, who was kinda scum read but also firmly anti-bozo.

This was surprisingly well deduced

Except I don't think anyone would've shot kgray last night but hey

[worcej]

Yeah I just don't really buy it, or the mafia shooting Bona in the first place.

Of course, I also don't see much reason for mafia to make this play and trade 2-for-1.

So my default is to delay the decision for now.

Why wouldn't you buy it?

If your plan is to go into a CC showdown with the actual cop, eliminating someone who is firmly against your guy is a smart play. That was the cornerstone of my analysis with the additional spice that maybe Bona is the actual cop, because of how certain he was against bozo.

So that's what made him a potential target, so then I looked at others and saw I had Vecna and kgray too, who I thought the scum would think I would target, so I decided to risk it and prioritize on Bona, who was kinda scum read but also firmly anti-bozo.

I think if I were in mafia's shoes I'd just roleblock you and kill me. Yeah, it would resolve the question of if I'm mafia or Cop, but I think mafia has probably given up on that one anyway, so they could have killed me tonight and you tomorrow and taken out 2 PRs for 1 Bozo with a few obvious nightkills lined up afterward.

Unless mafia is counting on having to get me or you or miskilled during the day in order to win, which would probably mean there's some deep cover scum.

I agree that if I was scum and were facing this situation, that an RB of the doctor, the exposed scum also claiming RB, and a kill of the possible cop is the optimum play to make.

Honestly, I think the scum team believed they could win in the bozo vs me CC battle, which is why they took the risk of the N2 kill attempt of Bona.

[snowy801]

Yeah I just don't really buy it, or the mafia shooting Bona in the first place.

Of course, I also don't see much reason for mafia to make this play and trade 2-for-1.

So my default is to delay the decision for now.

Why wouldn't you buy it?

If your plan is to go into a CC showdown with the actual cop, eliminating someone who is firmly against your guy is a smart play. That was the cornerstone of my analysis with the additional spice that maybe Bona is the actual cop, because of how certain he was against bozo.

So that's what made him a potential target, so then I looked at others and saw I had Vecna and kgray too, who I thought the scum would think I would target, so I decided to risk it and prioritize on Bona, who was kinda scum read but also firmly anti-bozo.

I think if I were in mafia's shoes I'd just roleblock you and kill me. Yeah, it would resolve the question of if I'm mafia or Cop, but I think mafia has probably given up on that one anyway, so they could have killed me tonight and you tomorrow and taken out 2 PRs for 1 Bozo with a few obvious nightkills lined up afterward.

Unless mafia is counting on having to get me or you or miskilled during the day in order to win, which would probably mean there's some deep cover scum.

If you're so sure I'm scum how could you then believe that mafia gave up on miskilling you eh?