M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3381 Post by snowy801 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:25 am

Doom427 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:20 am
Well, the EOD from Damo does convince me he's probably not the cop. So why would Mafia kill? Either they A) earnestly thought they were cop, or B) they thought Damo would work as a false cop once dead, and wants us to think that Damo was cop.

Both are kinda tied in my mind. The only real question is If Chaqa is Cop, and not some other third unknown player, would Mafia buy the redaction? I'm a dumbass, and thought "Hey, maybe? He said he got voted out day 1 a lot, sure" and when he came.out and said he actually was the cop, sorta thought he was lying and was scum. Are Mafia, who know more about game cause they know other scum roles, also likely to be dumbasses like me? Cause if they believe it, it could be A. If they don't believe it, it has to be B.
As Flum stated earlier, the probability of VT Chaqa falsely claiming cop to remain alive is so close to zero that it's not worth considering.

Thus, from mafia's perspective they would know for certain he either is cop or teammate. And thus not believe his retraction either way.

Therefore, if Chaqa is not scum then damo is a red herring deliberated by mafia to mislead town into misvoting him.
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3382 Post by snowy801 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:27 am

President Eden wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:21 am
##VOTE lfischl

I'll case him later maybe, but every time I remembered him posting in day 1 it was either a question that went nowhere and received no follow-up -- and often had no real prospects of going anywhere from the outset -- or a superficial restatement of the prevailing narrative frame of the moment. Struck me as mafia coasting.

Full disclaimer now, I don't have a clue how to read him from a meta perspective, my only real recollection of past history is incorrectly throwing him out by misunderstanding something that a possible investigative role said. (me? never, ha...........) So if this isn't out of character for him, then this vote isn't the place to be, but until I know that...
It is notable that in the most recent game he played he was correctly voted out for lurking. Do you imagine that would influence his gameplay? I think I've more words out of him this game than the past like 3 combined.
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3383 Post by ghug » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:32 am

kgray wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:27 am
Durga wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:13 am
kgray wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:45 am


Excuse me? You were clearly looking for a way to save Chaqa. You said you'd rather kill jasnah than Chaqa. You literally said you didn't want to vote Chaqa. You jumped to worcej at bozo's suggestion even though you'd been saying you thought bozo was scummy. You said something about Chaqa doesn't feel scummy, and then you said *to Chaqa* that momentum wasn't with jasnah and asked who he wanted instead. You noticed Eden saying I caught Chaqa slipping and asked where, but didn't follow up on it at all.

You so obviously wanted to save Chaqa. The fact that you aren't just admitting you wanted to save him because you thought he was town is really suspicious.



I'm actually pretty offended, but whatever. This is lazy at best.
Where did he slip again? I feel like I read it and thought it was stupid so probably didn't respond.

I obviously said I would rather keep Chaqa over jasnah but I was not attempting to save him. Which is irrelevant anyway, because tone doesn't translate well, and what I meant when I said "you were not worried" is I mean I don't believe you cared about my stance on Chaqa until maybe after he claimed.
Chaqa seemed to be making a point of almost townreading ghug but keeping him at null, but then he suddenly said something like he was looking forward to ghug townreading him in a few days (below), which just suddenly assumes ghug is town. It was pretty different from his hesitation to throw an actual townread on ghug beforehand.

idk, Flum wasn't impressed, Eden thought it was a slam dunk. Bunny said he didn't get it (not sure he made more of an effort to later?) and TFB said it was nothing but emphasized that he had good reasons to vote Chaqa (back to being sketched out by him, I guess). Anyway, I thought it was convincing, and Chaqa suddenly started accusing me of being scum after having previously stated he knows exactly how to read me and that I'm town. I think it was telling, overall. Probably I should be most concerned with how ghug reacted, but I haven't gone back to review that yet. I think he mostly ignored it.

And I did think you were searching around for wagons that would take off, at the time. Maybe it really is just because you townread Chaqa, and that sort of tracks with what you were saying (except following bozo, that seems weird to me).
kgray wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:46 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:44 pm


Yeah, it's not a surefire thing yet. Usually there comes a moment where it will click for sure.
Right but my issue isn’t with whether or not you think ghug is town, it’s the surety that he is town that you assumed with your comment about him realizing you’re town. I don’t see how your hesitant mindset justifies that outlook.
I found it compelling, but not especially so. I thought there were better reasons to kill Chaqa.
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3384 Post by Bonatogether » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:33 am

President Eden wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:09 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:42 am
President Eden wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:40 am

Refresh me on why you're voting for Chaqa.
As town, he wouldn't be useful, even if he is cop, due to being rbed. If he's scum, keeping him around is strictly negative since he won't slip anything. Therefore, not voting him out is either not-good or bad, so we should vote him out.
I actually strongly disagree that he wouldn't be useful as pseudo-VT if he is town. For one, if he is town, tanking the roleblock is definitely meaningful, because it gives our doctor a free hand for the whole game and our JOAT some clean actions. For another, while I haven't been impressed with his performance so far if he is town, he's definitely capable of great town play. I would think that if you don't believe damo is the Cop, then you should have serious pause about voting out Chaqa.

I'll admit that maybe I didn't read your more recent posts closely enough, but I thought you were voting Chaqa because you either (1) thought damo was reasonably likely to be the Cop, or (2) otherwise simply didn't believe Chaqa's story. I am alarmed that your reasoning is this reductive.

<big snip>
There is going to be a constant pall on whatever Chaqa puts forward, now. There's no getting around it that even if he's right, there's going to be resistance to whatever Chaqa pushes.

You have not been. Damo has some potential to be the cop but I wouldn't think it likely. My core argument has been that Chaqa doesn't do much good as town, and a lot of bad as scum. He's also more substantially more likely to be scum than most other players, so I believe that voting him out is better in terms of scum equity.

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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3385 Post by Fluminator » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:34 am

snowy801 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:25 am
Doom427 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:20 am
Well, the EOD from Damo does convince me he's probably not the cop. So why would Mafia kill? Either they A) earnestly thought they were cop, or B) they thought Damo would work as a false cop once dead, and wants us to think that Damo was cop.

Both are kinda tied in my mind. The only real question is If Chaqa is Cop, and not some other third unknown player, would Mafia buy the redaction? I'm a dumbass, and thought "Hey, maybe? He said he got voted out day 1 a lot, sure" and when he came.out and said he actually was the cop, sorta thought he was lying and was scum. Are Mafia, who know more about game cause they know other scum roles, also likely to be dumbasses like me? Cause if they believe it, it could be A. If they don't believe it, it has to be B.
As Flum stated earlier, the probability of VT Chaqa falsely claiming cop to remain alive is so close to zero that it's not worth considering.

Thus, from mafia's perspective they would know for certain he either is cop or teammate. And thus not believe his retraction either way.

Therefore, if Chaqa is not scum then damo is a red herring deliberated by mafia to mislead town into misvoting him.
I would be surprised if this whole thing was a deliberate red herring.
Mafia probably just killed damo because they PR read him because he was acting differently than normal. And then PE came out with his idea and I suspect at least one scum jumped on board
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3386 Post by Bonatogether » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:36 am

President Eden wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:21 am
##VOTE lfischl

I'll case him later maybe, but every time I remembered him posting in day 1 it was either a question that went nowhere and received no follow-up -- and often had no real prospects of going anywhere from the outset -- or a superficial restatement of the prevailing narrative frame of the moment. Struck me as mafia coasting.

Full disclaimer now, I don't have a clue how to read him from a meta perspective, my only real recollection of past history is incorrectly throwing him out by misunderstanding something that a possible investigative role said. (me? never, ha...........) So if this isn't out of character for him, then this vote isn't the place to be, but until I know that...
lfischl is always like this

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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3387 Post by ghug » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:37 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:39 am
Fluminator wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:35 am
I get the vibe PE is misguided town who just really wants to be the townclear.
Sorry buddy, but that's me this game.
My understanding is that Eden saw a thing, got really excited when some other people saw it too, and then is having a hard time accepting that the details don't line up with some of damo's comments. Damo would know that he would have to be consistent with his softs in order for them to be picked up if he died before revealing, if he was cop, so while the idea is enticing, I don't think it's especially likely that damo is the cop.
Yeah, I like this take. Eden looks good wrong here. Kgray looks bad wrong (or kinda bad right in a way).
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3388 Post by President Eden » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:37 am

##UNVOTE

You're not getting an explanation either until I think it through more, sorry~
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3389 Post by snowy801 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:37 am

Fluminator wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:34 am
snowy801 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:25 am
Doom427 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:20 am
Well, the EOD from Damo does convince me he's probably not the cop. So why would Mafia kill? Either they A) earnestly thought they were cop, or B) they thought Damo would work as a false cop once dead, and wants us to think that Damo was cop.

Both are kinda tied in my mind. The only real question is If Chaqa is Cop, and not some other third unknown player, would Mafia buy the redaction? I'm a dumbass, and thought "Hey, maybe? He said he got voted out day 1 a lot, sure" and when he came.out and said he actually was the cop, sorta thought he was lying and was scum. Are Mafia, who know more about game cause they know other scum roles, also likely to be dumbasses like me? Cause if they believe it, it could be A. If they don't believe it, it has to be B.
As Flum stated earlier, the probability of VT Chaqa falsely claiming cop to remain alive is so close to zero that it's not worth considering.

Thus, from mafia's perspective they would know for certain he either is cop or teammate. And thus not believe his retraction either way.

Therefore, if Chaqa is not scum then damo is a red herring deliberated by mafia to mislead town into misvoting him.
I would be surprised if this whole thing was a deliberate red herring.
Mafia probably just killed damo because they PR read him because he was acting differently than normal. And then PE came out with his idea and I suspect at least one scum jumped on board
While I'm disinclined to delve too deep into wifom I do think it unlikely that damo will so obviously take actions that can be construed as being cop while being some other PR. Unless you think he actually was cop, which it does not sound like.
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3390 Post by kgray » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:38 am

Fluminator wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:34 am
snowy801 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:25 am
Doom427 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:20 am
Well, the EOD from Damo does convince me he's probably not the cop. So why would Mafia kill? Either they A) earnestly thought they were cop, or B) they thought Damo would work as a false cop once dead, and wants us to think that Damo was cop.

Both are kinda tied in my mind. The only real question is If Chaqa is Cop, and not some other third unknown player, would Mafia buy the redaction? I'm a dumbass, and thought "Hey, maybe? He said he got voted out day 1 a lot, sure" and when he came.out and said he actually was the cop, sorta thought he was lying and was scum. Are Mafia, who know more about game cause they know other scum roles, also likely to be dumbasses like me? Cause if they believe it, it could be A. If they don't believe it, it has to be B.
As Flum stated earlier, the probability of VT Chaqa falsely claiming cop to remain alive is so close to zero that it's not worth considering.

Thus, from mafia's perspective they would know for certain he either is cop or teammate. And thus not believe his retraction either way.

Therefore, if Chaqa is not scum then damo is a red herring deliberated by mafia to mislead town into misvoting him.
I would be surprised if this whole thing was a deliberate red herring.
Mafia probably just killed damo because they PR read him because he was acting differently than normal. And then PE came out with his idea and I suspect at least one scum jumped on board
How was damo acting differently than normal?
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3391 Post by Bonatogether » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:39 am

ghug wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:37 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:39 am
Fluminator wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:35 am
I get the vibe PE is misguided town who just really wants to be the townclear.
Sorry buddy, but that's me this game.
My understanding is that Eden saw a thing, got really excited when some other people saw it too, and then is having a hard time accepting that the details don't line up with some of damo's comments. Damo would know that he would have to be consistent with his softs in order for them to be picked up if he died before revealing, if he was cop, so while the idea is enticing, I don't think it's especially likely that damo is the cop.
Yeah, I like this take. Eden looks good wrong here. Kgray looks bad wrong (or kinda bad right in a way).
i'm printing this out and putting on my wall, praise from ghug
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3392 Post by kgray » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:39 am

ghug wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:37 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:39 am
Fluminator wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:35 am
I get the vibe PE is misguided town who just really wants to be the townclear.
Sorry buddy, but that's me this game.
My understanding is that Eden saw a thing, got really excited when some other people saw it too, and then is having a hard time accepting that the details don't line up with some of damo's comments. Damo would know that he would have to be consistent with his softs in order for them to be picked up if he died before revealing, if he was cop, so while the idea is enticing, I don't think it's especially likely that damo is the cop.
Yeah, I like this take. Eden looks good wrong here. Kgray looks bad wrong (or kinda bad right in a way).
gtfo I look great in all the right ways
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3393 Post by Bonatogether » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:40 am

kgray wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:39 am
ghug wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:37 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:39 am


My understanding is that Eden saw a thing, got really excited when some other people saw it too, and then is having a hard time accepting that the details don't line up with some of damo's comments. Damo would know that he would have to be consistent with his softs in order for them to be picked up if he died before revealing, if he was cop, so while the idea is enticing, I don't think it's especially likely that damo is the cop.
Yeah, I like this take. Eden looks good wrong here. Kgray looks bad wrong (or kinda bad right in a way).
gtfo I look great in all the right ways
dubious assertion

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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3394 Post by ghug » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:40 am

snowy801 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:43 am
It is unclear to me how much of this is misrepresentation and how much genuine misunderstanding, so let me summarize my thoughts on the matter of Chaqa.

Purely based on chance, the guy who chose to vote out day 1 just happening be the cop is very low. This is weighed against the inevitable draw PRs have for scum hunters, as their behavior is notably different. Especially if this chance is weighed upon the probability of the day 1 wagon being a scum faking a claim to save themself [math provided upon request].

Further, it was evident to me, and apparently others, that damo might viably be a cop candidate.

Thus, it seems likely to me that Chaqa very might well be scum. That all being said, as also previously stated, Chaqa is a largely self-resolving issue, the property of which was only brought into question as the guy many pegged to be a potential cop was killed in the last night, lessening the probability of a true counter-claim.

However, it does not strike me as likely that damo would so blatantly seed cop if he truly were one, which makes me inclined to believe he was VT drawing a NK. Given this premise, it seems more likely Chaqa exists in the space between scum and yet-to-be-counterclaimed, and thus is not an issue that needs to be resolved immediately.

Whether the oracle ought to be burned for the purpose of determining this is not clear to me, especially as either way Chaqa will likely soak up all the roleblocks to come, and as someone said earlier it might be best to determine the role of someone whose alignment we are not clear on.

This all was stated, and so I find myself interested in the voices attempting to portray otherwise [Flum, Durga]. If you truly believed that I was advocating for the understanding that damo was cop and Chaqa mafia, and thus to vote him out, as I do not consider this to be an authentic belief. Instead of ascribing this belief to vague 'you were obviously going for this' dodges.

Fluminator quite clearly failed in this, but perhaps you can take a shot Durga.
Yeah, this wasn't clear. Flum and Durga seemed accurate in their criticism.
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3395 Post by kgray » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:40 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:40 am
kgray wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:39 am
ghug wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:37 am


Yeah, I like this take. Eden looks good wrong here. Kgray looks bad wrong (or kinda bad right in a way).
gtfo I look great in all the right ways
dubious assertion
GET TUBED
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3396 Post by Bonatogether » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:41 am

kgray wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:40 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:40 am
kgray wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:39 am


gtfo I look great in all the right ways
dubious assertion
GET TUBED
:evil:

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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3397 Post by snowy801 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:43 am

Well, I am sleep now friends. Good will hunting.
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3398 Post by snowy801 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:45 am

ghug wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:40 am
Yeah, this wasn't clear. Flum and Durga seemed accurate in their criticism.
It wasn't meant to be clear, as making it so would limit the conversation that would lead to such conclusions.

The question is whether it can be seen as an active attempt to vote out Chaqa, which I cannot believe.
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3399 Post by Fluminator » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:45 am

kgray wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:38 am
Fluminator wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:34 am
snowy801 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:25 am


As Flum stated earlier, the probability of VT Chaqa falsely claiming cop to remain alive is so close to zero that it's not worth considering.

Thus, from mafia's perspective they would know for certain he either is cop or teammate. And thus not believe his retraction either way.

Therefore, if Chaqa is not scum then damo is a red herring deliberated by mafia to mislead town into misvoting him.
I would be surprised if this whole thing was a deliberate red herring.
Mafia probably just killed damo because they PR read him because he was acting differently than normal. And then PE came out with his idea and I suspect at least one scum jumped on board
How was damo acting differently than normal?
Usually town damo is much more combative. He was very evasive this game and trying to stay out of the spotlight. I hope it wasn't because he was a power role lol.
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Re: M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

#3400 Post by President Eden » Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:46 am

kgray, why (and when) exactly did you come around on me?
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