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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:39 pm
by ghug
rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:21 pm
I was looking at EOD1 voting as it´s basically our only real informational EOD (D2 was all town)
Jamiet was on the lead for a long time with 4 votes and Celaph (town) had 3.
With 20 minutes Celaph (town) starts a wagon on Worcej (also town).
Jamiet then join Bob on lfishcl (scum). Don´t get much points on it because he can´t join Celaph wagon considering his reads.
Kak then changes from Celaph(town) to Worcej(town). Here I can see scum Kak trying to save scum Jamiet or scum Kak trying to avoid scum lfishcl getting traction.
Ghug moves from Jamiet to Worcej(town) which could be scum Ghug trying to save scum lfishl.
Maniac then votes on lfischl out of the blue, here I can´t see why scum Maniac would do this. I know, bussing and all, but still can´t see a reason to buss at this point.
Jamiet then jumps into Worcej ships, which is really scummy, as even Chaqa pointed.
Then Fox and Kak voted lsichl putting him on the lead and Celaph gives the definite vote.
Kak stil voted for Bob, which is weird but I think his vote on lfishl with 5 to go making him a runaway wagon is more towny then this last vote.
Me, Bona and Bob didn´t participate in this EOD, which make harder to gather info about us. But Bob voting lfischl and leaving didn´t look like bussing.
All in all, I still think Ghug and Jamiet/Chaqa are the ones who looked worst in this EOD. I think Kak erratic behavior is more town Kak then scum Kak. Why scum Kak will buss with 5 minutes to go to make his partner a sure kill and then bail at the end.
I still think a holistic view of my voting shouldn't lead to the conclusion it was scummy, unless you specifically think I'm scum with Jamie/Chaqa, which is unlikely for other reasons.
When Kak voted worcej, the wagons had been stagnant for about the ten minutes, and I was the only one discussing changing anything. Jamie, the second vote on lfischl, was clearly going to move to celaph in self-preservation if it came down to it. I asked Fox who he'd flash if he were flashing someone, and he said lfischl or worcej, but wasn't receptive to the idea in general. The status quo was clearly leading to one of Jamie and celaph dying, and I needled and created movement. Why would I do that as scum when a teammate isn't in imminent danger is of enough interest that the chaos could kill them?
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:09 pm
by Kakarroto
I have no idea right now. I've been trying to make sense of this game, but everytime I think about it the last days I just come to the point, my reads are bad, even worse, since I thought our cop is most likely mafia. Even when I flip my reads and then think about maniac or rd being mafia, it just doesn't make sense. Sure, some combinations come to mind but I always get back to my doubts. Even when I read a post, when I reread it, I come to a different result. Like some posts from Chaqa or the ones from Bob, when I tried to behave like a cop and the markings, but I guess I'm just fantasizing intend behind questions that have nothing to do with that (like the question if cop should out if he had a read). I'm just guessing right now.
I even seriously considered being subbed out because of that but then again, that would be absolutely unfair, wouldn't that? Maybe the best is if I follow the reads of all our flipped comrades. Or I could just sheep my best guess for town. But can I even trust this read of mine? I just don't know anymore at this point. Whoever is mafia, I hate you. I mean, don't get me wrong, you are great people and I like you very much, but still I hate you for putting me in this situation.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:13 pm
by Chaqa
Interesting to note that Bona hasn't posted. I wonder if he's back in school and busy, or if he's lurking.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:16 pm
by Maniac
This is maddening. It just doesn’t feel like scum are under pressure.
##voteBona - sorry Vecna
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:23 pm
by rdrivera2005
ghug wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:39 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:21 pm
I was looking at EOD1 voting as it´s basically our only real informational EOD (D2 was all town)
Jamiet was on the lead for a long time with 4 votes and Celaph (town) had 3.
With 20 minutes Celaph (town) starts a wagon on Worcej (also town).
Jamiet then join Bob on lfishcl (scum). Don´t get much points on it because he can´t join Celaph wagon considering his reads.
Kak then changes from Celaph(town) to Worcej(town). Here I can see scum Kak trying to save scum Jamiet or scum Kak trying to avoid scum lfishcl getting traction.
Ghug moves from Jamiet to Worcej(town) which could be scum Ghug trying to save scum lfishl.
Maniac then votes on lfischl out of the blue, here I can´t see why scum Maniac would do this. I know, bussing and all, but still can´t see a reason to buss at this point.
Jamiet then jumps into Worcej ships, which is really scummy, as even Chaqa pointed.
Then Fox and Kak voted lsichl putting him on the lead and Celaph gives the definite vote.
Kak stil voted for Bob, which is weird but I think his vote on lfishl with 5 to go making him a runaway wagon is more towny then this last vote.
Me, Bona and Bob didn´t participate in this EOD, which make harder to gather info about us. But Bob voting lfischl and leaving didn´t look like bussing.
All in all, I still think Ghug and Jamiet/Chaqa are the ones who looked worst in this EOD. I think Kak erratic behavior is more town Kak then scum Kak. Why scum Kak will buss with 5 minutes to go to make his partner a sure kill and then bail at the end.
I still think a holistic view of my voting shouldn't lead to the conclusion it was scummy, unless you specifically think I'm scum with Jamie/Chaqa, which is unlikely for other reasons.
When Kak voted worcej, the wagons had been stagnant for about the ten minutes, and I was the only one discussing changing anything. Jamie, the second vote on lfischl, was clearly going to move to celaph in self-preservation if it came down to it. I asked Fox who he'd flash if he were flashing someone, and he said lfischl or worcej, but wasn't receptive to the idea in general. The status quo was clearly leading to one of Jamie and celaph dying, and I needled and created movement. Why would I do that as scum when a teammate isn't in imminent danger is of enough interest that the chaos could kill them?
I think you could have moved to Worcej to get a counter to lfishcl. At that point Jamiet and Celaph was losing momentum and it's the ideal time for a quick wagon and Worcej was a good candidate from scum pov to avoid lfishcl being a runaway wagon. I give you some points for talking about movement on first place, if Jamiet is town not shaking the board was the best move.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:24 pm
by Kakarroto
just to think about it ... how many people who aren't here (or at least not seen) have we been voting out? I don't know if this is the right choice or not, but we all seem to have a bias against people not being here.
Although I unconsciously thought of the D2 situation where all were town ... and we voted for worcej in the end who wasn't there. Is it possible we have the same situation right here, right now?
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:24 pm
by rdrivera2005
Bona's absence is not helping.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:26 pm
by rdrivera2005
Kakarroto wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:24 pm
just to think about it ... how many people who aren't here (or at least not seen) have we been voting out? I don't know if this is the right choice or not, but we all seem to have a bias against people not being here.
Although I unconsciously thought of the D2 situation where all were town ... and we voted for worcej in the end who wasn't there. Is it possible we have the same situation right here, right now?
It's a human thing to have more empathy for people who seems to be helping, so it's expected we end killing absent people more then active ones.
But I think it's NAO as lischl wasn't around on EOD1 too.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:27 pm
by Chaqa
The bot counted Maniac's vote, but I wonder if it shouldn't have.
##CallGM - is Maniac's vote on Bona valid?
@Maniac - fix it please just to be sure.
That said, I am a bit worried Bona wouldn't be so absent if scum.
Kinda makes me want to flip over to ghug.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:32 pm
by Kakarroto
Maniac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:40 pm
Bonatogether:
Says they didn’t read the set up but knew there was a Godfather so calls BS on Ghug’s townslip. (Which I agree with). But then isn’t voting for him on this critical day, preferring to vote chaqa because he hated a rather benign post. I’ve already mentioned Bona’s voting style, he posts little and often and perhaps it masks that he doesn’t have developing reads on people.
I think I’d be happy voting for Bona. But if bona ends up voting ghug I’d reconsider that.
Ghug:
Ghug thinks Bona is being fake.
This seems odd “I have the luxury of knowing that the Vecna kill was not cop hunting, as I was his only consistent townread and I'm town.” We know ghug was a scum read of vecna’s.
Ghug has been scumreading me, but never votes for me.
Ghug sets out good reasons for no-kill D3.
I really dislike ghug’s post where he says his heart wants to scumread chaqa but also “this game is destined to end in miskills of me and Chaqa” He seems way too sure that Chaqa is town.
Ghug is currently voting Bob. That could be scum!ghug trying to save chaqa or town!ghug just voting his top scum read.
I’d be happy voting off ghug today.
Chaqa:
I said a lot about Chaqa/Jamie.
I’m still happy voting for him. Today has given me some pause. I think in the final analysis if Kaka and rdriveria agreed on ghug or Bona, I’d join them. But whilst their vote is split and one is on Chaqa, I’m happy to stay here.
My g/f wants to go visiting friends so will have to pick up other reads later. I can’t see Kaka or RDriveria being flashed today so I’ll look closely at Bob when I’m back.
With this post made a just bit earlier, would maf?maniac change his vote to bona now? It still strikes me as a town thing to do, but as I said, I don't really trust my reads anymore.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:33 pm
by Maniac
##vote Ghug
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:37 pm
by ghug
Maniac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:33 pm
##vote Ghug
It's Maniac/Chaqa, isn't it?
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:38 pm
by Chaqa
A bit unorthodox, but if we don't vote me out today, we need to agree you've all decided I'm town and aren't going to throw the game tomorrow. If you think you have a chance of voting me regardless of what today's results is, I think it best to vote me out now so you can have a chance to win tomorrow.
If we vote wrong today, and I'm alive, and get voted out, the game is over.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:38 pm
by Chaqa
ghug wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:37 pm
Maniac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:33 pm
##vote Ghug
It's Maniac/Chaqa, isn't it?
I'm kinda thinking it's you/Maniac or Maniac/bona or you/Bona at the moment.
What if all of these wagons stink and it's Rivera and Kak/Bob?
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:39 pm
by Maniac
ghug wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:37 pm
Maniac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:33 pm
##vote Ghug
It's Maniac/Chaqa, isn't it?
I think you might be half right
##vote chaqa
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:40 pm
by ghug
Chaqa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:38 pm
ghug wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:37 pm
Maniac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:33 pm
##vote Ghug
It's Maniac/Chaqa, isn't it?
I'm kinda thinking it's you/Maniac or Maniac/bona or you/Bona at the moment.
What if all of these wagons stink and it's Rivera and Kak/Bob?
I mean I think we straight up lose to Rivera or Kak as scum at this point. We probably lose if you and I are both town, too.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:41 pm
by Kakarroto
Chaqa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:38 pm
ghug wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:37 pm
Maniac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:33 pm
##vote Ghug
It's Maniac/Chaqa, isn't it?
I'm kinda thinking it's you/Maniac or Maniac/bona or you/Bona at the moment.
What if all of these wagons stink and it's Rivera and Kak/Bob?
What if it's brain-brian and they all tease us in the god qt? Currently, I think nearly everything is possible. Maybe it's just Bona-Bob and they had luck with the nk's.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:41 pm
by Chaqa
Maniac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:39 pm
ghug wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:37 pm
Maniac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:33 pm
##vote Ghug
It's Maniac/Chaqa, isn't it?
I think you might be half right
##vote chaqa
If you still seriously think I'm scum, none of you have any skill at reading me whatsoever.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:44 pm
by Chaqa
Ghug & all, you do realize the Vecna kill makes no sense if I'm scum, right?
It implicated me and you, and no world exists where I ever win that fight, and this is the exact end-game the mafia team were trying to set up by killing Vecna. That play only makes sense coming from someone with a lot of mafia experience as well as a flair for the unorthodox, hence you or Maniac, IMO.
Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:45 pm
by Chaqa
Plus, who is my partner? Whoever it is has had AMAZING PR reads, since I didn't sub in until Day 2, I could not have been involved in the PR hunt for Fox and celaph.