Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

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rdrivera2005
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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2001 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:42 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:47 pm
From my perspective, one of two things is true:

Option 1: Maniac is scum, and could not disrupt the Bob wagon at the end as all three town (rivera, ghug, myself) were on it.

Option 2: Rivera is scum, and came back but couldn't get a grasp on the situation fast enough to do anything and bussed Bob, with Maniac simply being misguided.

Option 2 has the slight support of Maniac's RB claim.

I think, mafia could hold the roleblock with the assumption Maniac was unlikely to be scanned, but Bob might be.

If Rivera is mafia, then mafia roleblocked Maniac and killed celaph to maximize the coverage on the Cop.

@Maniac/Rivera: any additional thoughts about anything?
The only additional thing I can say is that I looked the bot before posting, so I could have easily tied the vote yesterday if I were scum.

But I didn´t play a great town game, my reads weren´t good and I wasn´t able to obvtown too, so I understand why I am here at the last three.

The two things that point to Maniac to me are the voting and Ghug kill. I can´t see why Chaqa would kill Ghug when he could easily kill me (or even Maniac) and there is no way Ghug will not vote Maniac (or me).

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2002 Post by Chaqa » Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:47 pm

I think I'm content to lock my vote in on Maniac.

Hammer or not, doesn't bother me too much, but I won't be changing my vote.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2003 Post by Maniac » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:11 pm

I think you're both looking at the Role Block wrong.

Obviously scum want to stop cop scanning the goon. But they also want to stop cop giving town a 50/50 clear (no clear is clear because of the GF). Once GF is killed then the 50/50 clear becomes 100% clear.

From scum POV they have to stop the cop scanning but they also don't want to give town cred to a townie.

At EON 3, scum know they are killing celaph, but not that he is the cop. So scum team of Bob/Chaqa are looking at

Bonatogether
ghug
Kakarroto
Maniac
rdrivera2005

Scum team of Bob/Rdriverua are looking at

Bonatogether
ghug
Kakarroto
Maniac
Chaqa

and deciding who to RB.

I'd suggest from those lists that I'm a natural RB choice. There is a 1/6 chance I could be the cop but the 'extra' town cred I get from being RB wouldn't be that great as I was already widely townread.

But lets look at risk of Bob/maniac scum team holding their RB.

Lets say Town!Rdr was the cop and scanned Town!Ghug. That would result in two almost clears and probably game over for scum. Could any scum team really give up using one of their key weapons just to give one of them a little more towncred.

My guess is that I was going to be RB'd or killed the following night if celaph was vanilla town.

As it happened being roleblocked didn't give me much more town cred and by the time N4 came around I was being scum read by a few people and scum probably thought they could daykill me easier than Kakarroto, or they thought me reads were bad and they could manipulate me into killing town!Ghug and/or whichever one of you is town.

I honestly can't think of a single game where scum have claimed one of their own was RB when a PR was still in play. I guess they could do it in a bigger game, but not in a mini-game when cop becomes more powerful.

Unless of course scum had celaph absolutely nailed on as the cop. I don't recall but someone floated the idea that Foxtail and Celaph were killed because they were on the Ifischl wagon and therefore had some town cred. IDK

Just coming back to yesterday. If scum team is Bob/Maniac that I must know that Chaqa and ghug are going to jump onto Bob in last minute. They both say thats what they are going to do. In what universe does scum!Maniac not stay on Bob? I'd literally been voting for him all day except maybe 20 mins and gave good reasons why Bob should die, believing as I did that the three of us were town and ghug/Bob were scum team. Scum!Maniac busses Bob all say long in those circumstances.

Just returning to D1, I want to reiterate that last game I was bussed by my teammates D1 and got zero credit for it. I think Ghug alludes to this asking what I'd learnt from last game. The answer is early bussing doesn't give scum towncred. I had a good D1 reason to vote for Ifischl - there was a chance he'd be modkilled. Looking back, with three subs that probably wasn't a high chance, but as it turned out it wasn't a bad kill.

I'm still convinced Chaqa is scum here. I'm kicking myself for letting him off the hook D4? and then town reading him D5. I accept if we lose this game, I've made some bad decisions.

I will be on later tonight.

Any questions please ask.

Chaqa I have to be honest and say I'm not going to vote rdriveria tonight. If you're town I'm sorry, but I know I will feel sooooo bad if I allow myself to be talked around and you are scum.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2004 Post by Maniac » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:18 pm

So with my and Chaqa votes locked on, It's down to you Rdriveria. If you're scum you've clearly already won. If you're town, them please just take your time. You don't have to worry about defending yourself. Just read both Chaqa and I in iso from D1 and decide. No pressure though, it's only a game. Good luck

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2005 Post by Chaqa » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:23 pm

@Maniac: your cop analysis completely ignores the Day 3 context of me pushing for the no-kill specifically to give the cop more chances to scan, all while minimizing the risk of a D3 wagon forcing them to reveal. In retrospect, celaph never had a chance to scan, but no one knew that at the time.

And scum did not have a 1/6 to find the Cop. They had a 1/5 or 1/4, since Jamie had hardclaimed VT and I had reiterated that claim, and Bona had mistakenly outed himself as notCop. Why would I, in your world as the Goon, do that hardclaim? I even offered that town SHOULD kill me so this exact scenario would not happen.

Go back and re-read that, and my intteractions with ghug, the Vecna kill, and all the evidence points to scum trying to set both ghug and myself up.

If you are town, the last scum is Rivera, but if you refuse to vote for rivera, I'm forced to go all-in on voting you, even if I think it's not 100% a lock that you're scum.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2006 Post by Chaqa » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:27 pm

And really Maniac, your entire premise of me being scum simply does not hold up, since I absolutely could have and would have tied it at EoD yesterday. Plus, why would I do my fake-out push on ghug that helped me figure out (from my view) that the scumteam had to be you and Bob? See below:
Chaqa wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:40 pm
ghug wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:39 pm
Bob, it's Chaqa and Maniac.. You need to get off me.

Chaqa decided to stop townreading me when Rd and I said it was weird. Maniac scumread Chaqa all game only to save him yesterday and refuse to vote for him today.
TBH I just wanted to see how people would act if I flipped over to you.

##Vote Maniac

Pretty sure it's Maniac/Bob.
Chaqa wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:41 pm
Maniac went from voting for Bob with ghug to voting against ghug with Bob.

lol

so obvious


Page 95/96 in general have a lot of information.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2007 Post by Chaqa » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:32 pm

@Rivera: the reason Maniac says he won't vote you is because he knows I'm likely to vote him, so he's trying to convince you to go against basic logic, ghug's reads, yesterday's events, and so forth to get a win.

If he were town, he would be open to all possibilities and not discounting you as scum completely.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2008 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:35 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:23 pm
@Maniac: your cop analysis completely ignores the Day 3 context of me pushing for the no-kill specifically to give the cop more chances to scan, all while minimizing the risk of a D3 wagon forcing them to reveal. In retrospect, celaph never had a chance to scan, but no one knew that at the time.

And scum did not have a 1/6 to find the Cop. They had a 1/5 or 1/4, since Jamie had hardclaimed VT and I had reiterated that claim, and Bona had mistakenly outed himself as notCop. Why would I, in your world as the Goon, do that hardclaim? I even offered that town SHOULD kill me so this exact scenario would not happen.

Go back and re-read that, and my intteractions with ghug, the Vecna kill, and all the evidence points to scum trying to set both ghug and myself up.

If you are town, the last scum is Rivera, but if you refuse to vote for rivera, I'm forced to go all-in on voting you, even if I think it's not 100% a lock that you're scum.
Humm, so you are now trying to get Maniac to vote me? Why?

I was sold on voting Maniac, but your reasoning isn´t helping here.

You have an specific interest in pushing for a no-kill: to avoid being the NK, which more or less nulifies your argument that you offered yourself to be the DK.
About the hardclaim goon, you had no option after Jamiet claim, so it´s another moot point.
You have a point on Vecna´s kill, I can easily see scum killing Vecna to get you and/or Ghug DKed.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2009 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:42 pm

Maniac wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:11 pm
I think you're both looking at the Role Block wrong.

Obviously scum want to stop cop scanning the goon. But they also want to stop cop giving town a 50/50 clear (no clear is clear because of the GF). Once GF is killed then the 50/50 clear becomes 100% clear.

From scum POV they have to stop the cop scanning but they also don't want to give town cred to a townie.

At EON 3, scum know they are killing celaph, but not that he is the cop. So scum team of Bob/Chaqa are looking at

Bonatogether
ghug
Kakarroto
Maniac
rdrivera2005

Scum team of Bob/Rdriverua are looking at

Bonatogether
ghug
Kakarroto
Maniac
Chaqa

and deciding who to RB.

I'd suggest from those lists that I'm a natural RB choice. There is a 1/6 chance I could be the cop but the 'extra' town cred I get from being RB wouldn't be that great as I was already widely townread.

But lets look at risk of Bob/maniac scum team holding their RB.

Lets say Town!Rdr was the cop and scanned Town!Ghug. That would result in two almost clears and probably game over for scum. Could any scum team really give up using one of their key weapons just to give one of them a little more towncred.

My guess is that I was going to be RB'd or killed the following night if celaph was vanilla town.

As it happened being roleblocked didn't give me much more town cred and by the time N4 came around I was being scum read by a few people and scum probably thought they could daykill me easier than Kakarroto, or they thought me reads were bad and they could manipulate me into killing town!Ghug and/or whichever one of you is town.

I honestly can't think of a single game where scum have claimed one of their own was RB when a PR was still in play. I guess they could do it in a bigger game, but not in a mini-game when cop becomes more powerful.

Unless of course scum had celaph absolutely nailed on as the cop. I don't recall but someone floated the idea that Foxtail and Celaph were killed because they were on the Ifischl wagon and therefore had some town cred. IDK

Just coming back to yesterday. If scum team is Bob/Maniac that I must know that Chaqa and ghug are going to jump onto Bob in last minute. They both say thats what they are going to do. In what universe does scum!Maniac not stay on Bob? I'd literally been voting for him all day except maybe 20 mins and gave good reasons why Bob should die, believing as I did that the three of us were town and ghug/Bob were scum team. Scum!Maniac busses Bob all say long in those circumstances.

Just returning to D1, I want to reiterate that last game I was bussed by my teammates D1 and got zero credit for it. I think Ghug alludes to this asking what I'd learnt from last game. The answer is early bussing doesn't give scum towncred. I had a good D1 reason to vote for Ifischl - there was a chance he'd be modkilled. Looking back, with three subs that probably wasn't a high chance, but as it turned out it wasn't a bad kill.

I'm still convinced Chaqa is scum here. I'm kicking myself for letting him off the hook D4? and then town reading him D5. I accept if we lose this game, I've made some bad decisions.

I will be on later tonight.

Any questions please ask.

Chaqa I have to be honest and say I'm not going to vote rdriveria tonight. If you're town I'm sorry, but I know I will feel sooooo bad if I allow myself to be talked around and you are scum.
The problem with the RB is that you are approaching it from the wrong angle. Of cours if Chaqa (or me or anyone else) was scum and you are town, the logic conclusion is that you were roleblocked.
The problem is that if you were scum, there is also a good reason for scum to not RB (you weren´t a likely target and you will get town points claiming a RB and a scan on Bob would help his chances).
So, there is reason to either your claim be real or for you to fake it.
I also tend to believe on RB´s claims, but I can´t ignore that there is a decent chance it´s fake.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2010 Post by Chaqa » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:45 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:35 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:23 pm
@Maniac: your cop analysis completely ignores the Day 3 context of me pushing for the no-kill specifically to give the cop more chances to scan, all while minimizing the risk of a D3 wagon forcing them to reveal. In retrospect, celaph never had a chance to scan, but no one knew that at the time.

And scum did not have a 1/6 to find the Cop. They had a 1/5 or 1/4, since Jamie had hardclaimed VT and I had reiterated that claim, and Bona had mistakenly outed himself as notCop. Why would I, in your world as the Goon, do that hardclaim? I even offered that town SHOULD kill me so this exact scenario would not happen.

Go back and re-read that, and my intteractions with ghug, the Vecna kill, and all the evidence points to scum trying to set both ghug and myself up.

If you are town, the last scum is Rivera, but if you refuse to vote for rivera, I'm forced to go all-in on voting you, even if I think it's not 100% a lock that you're scum.
Humm, so you are now trying to get Maniac to vote me? Why?

I was sold on voting Maniac, but your reasoning isn´t helping here.

You have an specific interest in pushing for a no-kill: to avoid being the NK, which more or less nulifies your argument that you offered yourself to be the DK.
About the hardclaim goon, you had no option after Jamiet claim, so it´s another moot point.
You have a point on Vecna´s kill, I can easily see scum killing Vecna to get you and/or Ghug DKed.
No, I am not TRYING to get Maniac to vote for you, I'm pointing out that he should at least be considering voting for you in the world where he's town. Because if he is town, he shouldn't be so deadset on one of us, when he would need to figure out which of us is town vs. scum.

How would I (as mafia) be the nightkill? I'm not understanding your point there.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2011 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:46 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:32 pm
@Rivera: the reason Maniac says he won't vote you is because he knows I'm likely to vote him, so he's trying to convince you to go against basic logic, ghug's reads, yesterday's events, and so forth to get a win.

If he were town, he would be open to all possibilities and not discounting you as scum completely.
Ok, like I said, the logic points to Maniac, but he is making a good work on puting some doubts on my mind.

I have to work now, but will go back before end for sure (I am working remote today, which is far better to play).

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2012 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:49 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:45 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:35 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:23 pm
@Maniac: your cop analysis completely ignores the Day 3 context of me pushing for the no-kill specifically to give the cop more chances to scan, all while minimizing the risk of a D3 wagon forcing them to reveal. In retrospect, celaph never had a chance to scan, but no one knew that at the time.

And scum did not have a 1/6 to find the Cop. They had a 1/5 or 1/4, since Jamie had hardclaimed VT and I had reiterated that claim, and Bona had mistakenly outed himself as notCop. Why would I, in your world as the Goon, do that hardclaim? I even offered that town SHOULD kill me so this exact scenario would not happen.

Go back and re-read that, and my intteractions with ghug, the Vecna kill, and all the evidence points to scum trying to set both ghug and myself up.

If you are town, the last scum is Rivera, but if you refuse to vote for rivera, I'm forced to go all-in on voting you, even if I think it's not 100% a lock that you're scum.
Humm, so you are now trying to get Maniac to vote me? Why?

I was sold on voting Maniac, but your reasoning isn´t helping here.

You have an specific interest in pushing for a no-kill: to avoid being the NK, which more or less nulifies your argument that you offered yourself to be the DK.
About the hardclaim goon, you had no option after Jamiet claim, so it´s another moot point.
You have a point on Vecna´s kill, I can easily see scum killing Vecna to get you and/or Ghug DKed.
No, I am not TRYING to get Maniac to vote for you, I'm pointing out that he should at least be considering voting for you in the world where he's town. Because if he is town, he shouldn't be so deadset on one of us, when he would need to figure out which of us is town vs. scum.

How would I (as mafia) be the nightkill? I'm not understanding your point there.
I meant the DK. The day you pushed the no-kill you were the leading wagon after Vecna´s kill and I think you will probably be the DK if we didn´t go with your plan.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2013 Post by Chaqa » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:51 pm

That's fair.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2014 Post by Hamilton Brian » Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:34 pm

GM Note: I am sure you are aware, but just to be crystal clear with 2.5 hours left in the day, Maniac is set to be placed on the sacrificial pyre.

Maniac: (2) Chaqa, rdrivera2005
Chaqa: (1) Maniac
4

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2015 Post by Maniac » Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:04 pm

@Rdriveria in a world where scum team is Bob>Maniac and they choose to hold the RB - why doesn't GF!Bob claim RB? If he is scanned that night or future nights he'd coast to EOG. Why would Bob/Maniac hold RB and allow Maniac to fakeclaim the RB for a little bit more town cred that disappears altgother if I was Goon?

@Rdriveria - I think Chaqa is just edging his bets in case you vote for me, he'll then try and get me on his side.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2016 Post by Chaqa » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:19 pm

The fact you continue to completely ignore the possibility I am town further reinforces my view that you are scum.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2017 Post by Maniac » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:22 pm

I just hope Rdriveria comes back on. I don’t mind losing but if we lose because Rdriveria is busy at work I’d be a bit pissed at his company.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2018 Post by Maniac » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:23 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:19 pm
The fact you continue to completely ignore the possibility I am town further reinforces my view that you are scum.
If you’re town here we’ve both kind of made it easy for rdriveria today. But I think we’re both too stubborn to change.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2019 Post by Chaqa » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:45 pm

Maniac wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:23 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:19 pm
The fact you continue to completely ignore the possibility I am town further reinforces my view that you are scum.
If you’re town here we’ve both kind of made it easy for rdriveria today. But I think we’re both too stubborn to change.
I'm not too stubborn to change, but I am much more sure you're scum than Rivera, and because of that, I'm not going to change.

It should be crystal clear to anyone who has played mafia enough (of which you both qualify) that I'm town, that the only logical explanation for your tunneling on me is that you are scum.

But the majority of the scumread I have is from previous behavior.

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Re: Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

#2020 Post by Maniac » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:49 pm

@chaqa - I think Jamie started the game by keep repeating ‘I’m town, I’m town, why doesn’t anyone believe me…’

I think your just become a Jamie meme now mate. How low can you go.

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