M68: Guns N' Roses GAMETHREAD [hidden]

[Johnny Big Horse]

In that case, having presented a sincere and articulate defence of myself, I shall go to sleep.

We should still kill either EMC or Worcej today if you want my opinion, which apparently not many of you do.

Nighty night, Fellow Townies.

Don't want your opinion. Lies just confuse things.

You're overselling it.

Not overselling, but I did step over the line, and I apologize to all, especially Jaime for this post.

[Johnny Big Horse]

Reading up, JBH seems to have suddenly gotten much more confident after being shot, or is it just me?

He just doesn't care anymore. He thinks he is right, and knows there are three liars out there.

[celaph]

[Post about Damo]

When do you think Damo's approach should have changed and why?

What I gather from this is that Damo had a scumread and pushed them. He saw nothing that should change his scumread, so he didn't stop pushing them. That behavior is not scummy in itself, pushing scumreads is good.

If you want to make a case here, show me where Damo went wrong. Show me the town Macca tells that he overlooked or ignored. Show me someone who his statements suggest he should have seen as a better wagon than Macca.

Lastly, regarding the change of view on EMC, point out where he is scummy. Where is his reasoning contrived or forced? Tell me why scum would want to change their view on EMC like that at that time. Because merely pointing out that someone's view changed not hunting.

[celaph]

Oh Almighty God Vecna, if ghug posting coherent arguments is a sign of scumminess, please blink twice.

I just realized that I don't think I've played with VT ghug. Maybe that's why I'm paranoid.

[celaph]

I'm not getting good vibes from Brian's posting here.

Do you ever? What do you find distasteful about it. Trying to get out from under the mechanics/item stuff.

I often get good vibes from your posting.

a) You're doing it in response to pressure. There's no way around that now, and better you do it than not do it, but it still doesn't reflect as well on you, and you still look bad for the milquetoast first few days.
b) You're asking a lot of leading questions. You're questiony in general, but compare thess recent posts to ones from last game:

Eden's reads list isn't going to be the be all end all. Remember, according to snowy, we're all idiots. Except for the three scum.

PE post of reads from N2: viewtopic.php?p=244987#p244987
- Most Town -
Eden
snowy
Jamie
brainbomb
emc
dam​o
Johnny
Brian
ghug
= Town/Mafia Border =
rivera
worcej
Chaqa
- Most Mafia -

Then their Last post on the scum team.
Chaqa, rivera, worcej,

Scum knows there's probably town amongst that group (chaqa, rivera, worcej). Set up for another miskill. More likely scum in this group? Jamie,brainbomb/celaph, emc, dam​o, Johnny, ghug?

The groupings are based on the assumption, and I mean no offence by this, that a scum team consisting of you, EMC, and Jon-Boy the Wonder Horse, would not be doing this well. There has to be at least one experienced player in the scum team.

Understood. In the case where the scum team is "doing this well," what is there to look at? VCA seems obsolete because there's not much frantic movement. A couple of :01s on both days but I wonder if most of these wagons have been TvT. Thoughts?

vs.

And if I change my vote to celaph right now, it might be construed as sheeping you. Given that we're the only two interacting, maybe?

But there does seem to be something there in Celaph's iso that's unsavoury.

There goes my notion.
RIP Demon.
Man, I am such back and forth with...everyone.

Macca, what strikes you odd for Vecna?

Probably scumVecna doesn't flippantly suggest in a post that they're possibly the sniper to generate suspicion.

Or scumVecna says "If I bring it up myself, then no one would believe that I am those things, so I seem more town."

Jesus.

In this game, the assertions are phrased as questions. Last game, assertions were assertions, sometimes with caveats, while the questions were questions.

c) You've gone back to the vaguely threatening HB we've seen from you before as scum. I can't remember town HB making bravado-laden posts like this one:

Burns my ass because I had you (Damo) in the trustiness pool. Now I don't think as much anymore. So if you are part of the scum team, who are your co-conspirators? EMC? Trying to save them on Day 2? So who's the third?

Adding to ghug's arguments.
d) You lack the uncertainty that, at least in my mind, has come to characterize non-mafia HB the last couple games (yes, WW included). It's not that you seem to know too much know, but that I expect town HB to very obviously not know too much and I'm not seeing that here.

e) I feel like I'm 10x more likely to express the following sentiment as scum.

At this point, I'd vote me too. I have really laid an egg in this game and in no way have I been able to endear myself to town, as town. And I'm not thinking. I think this rose/gun bullshit is causing me to get stuck in THAT and I can't get a decent vision of anything else.

You have no confidence in your own towniness. If you're town then you presumably played with towny intentions based upon your best read of the game. Even if you were wrong, you should have that to fall back to. Your lack of confidence in this matter suggests that you're not town.

##vote HB

[Jamiet99uk]

Reading up, JBH seems to have suddenly gotten much more confident after being shot, or is it just me?

He just doesn't care anymore. He thinks he is right, and knows there are three liars out there.

Ironically, if you had played here before, you'd know that as scum, I almost always tell the truth. Not the whole truth, of course, but the truth all the same.

[Jamiet99uk]

Where is Worcej?

Worcej, if you are Town, you are not helping us.
If you are scum, ##Vote Worcej.

[ghug]

Damo's flip flipping around the situation strikes me as a townie struggling to make sense of the situation.

Lol this is why. Given ex post facto celaph, who is likely town, this is prolly detracting scum point from ghug but I don't like it

"I had this thought"

"ghug had this thought. Scummy"

Interesting progression.

[ghug]

Oh Almighty God Vecna, if ghug posting coherent arguments is a sign of scumminess, please blink twice.

I just realized that I don't think I've played with VT ghug. Maybe that's why I'm paranoid.

I'm always coherent.

[ghug]

Do you ever? What do you find distasteful about it. Trying to get out from under the mechanics/item stuff.

I often get good vibes from your posting.

a) You're doing it in response to pressure. There's no way around that now, and better you do it than not do it, but it still doesn't reflect as well on you, and you still look bad for the milquetoast first few days.
b) You're asking a lot of leading questions. You're questiony in general, but compare thess recent posts to ones from last game:

Eden's reads list isn't going to be the be all end all. Remember, according to snowy, we're all idiots. Except for the three scum.

PE post of reads from N2: viewtopic.php?p=244987#p244987
- Most Town -
Eden
snowy
Jamie
brainbomb
emc
dam​o
Johnny
Brian
ghug
= Town/Mafia Border =
rivera
worcej
Chaqa
- Most Mafia -

Then their Last post on the scum team.
Chaqa, rivera, worcej,

Scum knows there's probably town amongst that group (chaqa, rivera, worcej). Set up for another miskill. More likely scum in this group? Jamie,brainbomb/celaph, emc, dam​o, Johnny, ghug?

Understood. In the case where the scum team is "doing this well," what is there to look at? VCA seems obsolete because there's not much frantic movement. A couple of :01s on both days but I wonder if most of these wagons have been TvT. Thoughts?

vs.

And if I change my vote to celaph right now, it might be construed as sheeping you. Given that we're the only two interacting, maybe?

But there does seem to be something there in Celaph's iso that's unsavoury.

There goes my notion.
RIP Demon.
Man, I am such back and forth with...everyone.

Macca, what strikes you odd for Vecna?

Probably scumVecna doesn't flippantly suggest in a post that they're possibly the sniper to generate suspicion.

Or scumVecna says "If I bring it up myself, then no one would believe that I am those things, so I seem more town."

Jesus.

In this game, the assertions are phrased as questions. Last game, assertions were assertions, sometimes with caveats, while the questions were questions.

c) You've gone back to the vaguely threatening HB we've seen from you before as scum. I can't remember town HB making bravado-laden posts like this one:

Burns my ass because I had you (Damo) in the trustiness pool. Now I don't think as much anymore. So if you are part of the scum team, who are your co-conspirators? EMC? Trying to save them on Day 2? So who's the third?

Adding to ghug's arguments.
d) You lack the uncertainty that, at least in my mind, has come to characterize non-mafia HB the last couple games (yes, WW included). It's not that you seem to know too much know, but that I expect town HB to very obviously not know too much and I'm not seeing that here.

e) I feel like I'm 10x more likely to express the following sentiment as scum.

At this point, I'd vote me too. I have really laid an egg in this game and in no way have I been able to endear myself to town, as town. And I'm not thinking. I think this rose/gun bullshit is causing me to get stuck in THAT and I can't get a decent vision of anything else.

You have no confidence in your own towniness. If you're town then you presumably played with towny intentions based upon your best read of the game. Even if you were wrong, you should have that to fall back to. Your lack of confidence in this matter suggests that you're not town.

##vote HB

I avoided e cause Macca literally did the same thing and I misread them for it, so I'm doubting that particular heuristic. d is a good point.

[Jamiet99uk]

Everyone who townreads Worcej:

Why?

[Vecna]

##GM NOTE
Vote Count 3.03

Hamilton Brian: (3) ghug, rdrivera2005, Celaph
Worcej: (2) damo666, Jamiet99uk
Jamiet99uk: (1) Johnny Big Horse
Ghug: (1) E.M.C.^42

Unvote: (2) Hamilton Brian, Chaqa

Presently Hamilton Brian might be meeting his end in a fashionable manner

Not Voted: worcej
Not posted: worcej

12 hours and 43 minutes left in this day.

[damo666]

Somebody please check this:

Scum team {Chaqa, Jamie, x} where x is not JBH


I think this is impossible unless there is an undisclosed town shooter. Am ki correct?

I want Johnny to realise his theory makes no sense. The fact he proposes it probably indicates he is town. Or perhaps he is scum who can't or hasn't thought it through.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm relatively happy with Worcej vs Hamilton Brian today.

Of those two, Worcej still gets my bet.

Hamilton is actually participating more today at least. If he is scum then this increased interaction could be very informative. If he is town, he needs to keep up this effort and help us find the scum.

EMC and Johnny Big Head are my two other prime suspects.

I can see a Worcej / EMC / JBH team.

[damo666]

but Jamie is still here? They took a chance on Eden and didn't take the clear shot at Jamie?

I always thought Eden was town.

Probably speaking too soon, but maybe my farfetched idea was right. Jamiet, Chaca and Riviera.

This

[rdrivera2005]

rivera engaging as he did with damo on his mathery blinks me a little town point, iirc as scum he is more bussery and not all that "you are fool". Not sure what his flop on JBH from early game to now is though.

I still think JBH will lose the game in milo, but we can't afford a misskill and he looks really towny now. Plus, if we don't lose next night he could be mechanically cleared or dammed.

[damo666]

wow, and someone shot at me too. I had a N2 rose.

Ok, geniuses what does that mean? Who would shoot at me? Or why?

I was obviously town. You all have admitted it.

So, I assume it would be mafia that shot me, since all of you townies profess there are more suspicious people than me. So, if they shot Eden and Me, could that mean we are on to something? I mean, could it mean that whatever Eden and I agreed on, could be almost true?

I would think if I was the village idiot, which I have assumed I was, the mafia would keep me around as long as possible because I can only confuse you all with rubbish theories.

Followed by this

[damo666]

JBH looks like a member of a scumteam who have deliberately not shot Jamie.

The way he addresses it straight away followed by his mock surprise at getting a being shot message.

Is JBH being coached N2 for this?

I'm flipping again lol.
.

[damo666]

I'm relatively happy with Worcej vs Hamilton Brian today.

Of those two, Worcej still gets my bet.

Hamilton is actually participating more today at least. If he is scum then this increased interaction could be very informative. If he is town, he needs to keep up this effort and help us find the scum.

EMC and Johnny Big Head are my two other prime suspects.

I can see a Worcej / EMC / JBH team.

Jamie shall we go the safe route and just kill off JBH today?

[rdrivera2005]

Horseman, are you good at Diplomacy?

I am good at face to face. Really good at webdip full press. I suck bad at gunboat. I have only been playing gunboat lately.

Oh, maybe you weren't talking about that diplomacy.

No, I am not good with diplomacy. I am probably just like Jamiet, but less offensive. I see things my way and think everyone else is wrong. I don't like compromise, I think it is for losers.

Let me guess: you are a millennial...