M68: Guns N' Roses GAMETHREAD [hidden]

[ghug]

There's no way in hell I kill Chaqa last night if he's town and I'm scum, FWIW.

OK but would you as scum have killed JBH rather than Chaqa or Jamie n2?

No. I'm just saying we shouldn't read into Chaqa not dying if he is town because no scum in their right mind kills him there.

[Chaqa]

What is the risky scum action you're suggesting?

Holding a shot last night to frame me.

Damo asked me to try to explain who precisely would do that, but now that I think about it, you're right that it isn't that risky at all. So I'm not sure what damo needs to be convinced of.

Makes me second guess clearing him of it a little

I read it as him asking about the whole series of night moves. You and Jamie were both widely townread and known to be exposed N2. Who's shooting JBH there?

if I were scum, and I had a free shot to use, why would I shoot JBH instead of you, Damo, rivera, worcej, celaph, EMC... basically anyone.

No offense to him, but you guys know I love to take out "good" players with nightkills.

[rdrivera2005]

There's no way in hell I kill Chaqa last night if he's town and I'm scum, FWIW.

OK but would you as scum have killed JBH rather than Chaqa or Jamie n2?

No. I'm just saying we shouldn't read into Chaqa not dying if he is town because no scum in their right mind kills him there.

Agree. If Chaqa is town the right move last night for scum is to let him alive as it's the easiest misskill.

The key question here is why scum shot JBH on N2. I can see two answers, the first is they didn't shot and JBH is scum and claimed to try to cover for Chaqa shot. The second is they want to frame Jamiet or Damo or just to spread chaos, which is a weak reasoning but possible.

Anyway, there is no mechanical clear or guilty at this point. So, we need to look who are playing a scum game and Chaqa is my top choice. That change to HB is not organic and not town motivated.

[Chaqa]

OK but would you as scum have killed JBH rather than Chaqa or Jamie n2?

No. I'm just saying we shouldn't read into Chaqa not dying if he is town because no scum in their right mind kills him there.

Agree. If Chaqa is town the right move last night for scum is to let him alive as it's the easiest misskill.

The key question here is why scum shot JBH on N2. I can see two answers, the first is they didn't shot and JBH is scum and claimed to try to cover for Chaqa shot. The second is they want to frame Jamiet or Damo or just to spread chaos, which is a weak reasoning but possible.

Anyway, there is no mechanical clear or guilty at this point. So, we need to look who are playing a scum game and Chaqa is my top choice. That change to HB is not organic and not town motivated.

Your entire theory is based off of one vote, of me moving to vote for someone who I had been scumreading, and saying it isn't organic??

I'm sorry, it just doesn't make any sense.

[ghug]

No. I'm just saying we shouldn't read into Chaqa not dying if he is town because no scum in their right mind kills him there.

Agree. If Chaqa is town the right move last night for scum is to let him alive as it's the easiest misskill.

The key question here is why scum shot JBH on N2. I can see two answers, the first is they didn't shot and JBH is scum and claimed to try to cover for Chaqa shot. The second is they want to frame Jamiet or Damo or just to spread chaos, which is a weak reasoning but possible.

Anyway, there is no mechanical clear or guilty at this point. So, we need to look who are playing a scum game and Chaqa is my top choice. That change to HB is not organic and not town motivated.

Your entire theory is based off of one vote, of me moving to vote for someone who I had been scumreading, and saying it isn't organic??

I'm sorry, it just doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, rd feels very inauthentic here.

My problem, though, is that it just makes way more sense as a bus. I'm trying to imagine a team without you, and I'm struggling.

Assume you're town. I know I'm town. If JBH is scum, we would have lost overnight, so be has to be town too. I'm 99% confident damo is town.

That leaves emc, bra'incel, worcej, rdr. I have reason to townread the first two and arguably the third, which means I've missed something, but I have to be missing on two people for you to be town, and I'm also inclined to think rd and worcej aren't scum together, which would probably mean emc and bra'incel, who are the two I townread the most.

On the flip side, if you're scum, JBH could be too, though I also townread him (giving you cover for the total gun count makes at least as much sense as scum actually shooting him), and then I only need one or two more scum for everything to make sense, likely rd plus me misreading someone else. It's a lift easier to imagine.

What am I missing?

[rdrivera2005]

No. I'm just saying we shouldn't read into Chaqa not dying if he is town because no scum in their right mind kills him there.

Agree. If Chaqa is town the right move last night for scum is to let him alive as it's the easiest misskill.

The key question here is why scum shot JBH on N2. I can see two answers, the first is they didn't shot and JBH is scum and claimed to try to cover for Chaqa shot. The second is they want to frame Jamiet or Damo or just to spread chaos, which is a weak reasoning but possible.

Anyway, there is no mechanical clear or guilty at this point. So, we need to look who are playing a scum game and Chaqa is my top choice. That change to HB is not organic and not town motivated.

Your entire theory is based off of one vote, of me moving to vote for someone who I had been scumreading, and saying it isn't organic??

I'm sorry, it just doesn't make any sense.

You were scumreading him but never justified it or even back it up with a vote. Then when HB was having his most towny moment you put him on the lead with a bullshit reasoning that involves a scumread on me (that you also never justified) and not winning of JBH is scum. It's a scum 101 move and add this to your overall play, the out of the blue choice to shot Jamiet and it's Chaqa scum play.

[damo666]

@ghug if Chaqa is town then JBH is town so if we are both town then there are only 4 people who can be scum {rdr, worcej, emc, braincel}. Now you say you cannot envisage an rdr worcej scumpair and I cannot envisage an emc worcej scumpair so it's impossible. The obvious solution [what you're missing] is Chaqa is scum.

So from mpov one of Chaqa or ghug must be scum. I think it is more likely to be Chaqa.

[damo666]

Looking to me very much like a {Chaqa, emc, braincel} scumteam.

[ghug]

@ghug if Chaqa is town then JBH is town so if we are both town then there are only 4 people who can be scum {rdr, worcej, emc, braincel}. Now you say you cannot envisage an rdr worcej scumpair and I cannot envisage an emc worcej scumpair so it's impossible. The obvious solution [what you're missing] is Chaqa is scum.

So from mpov one of Chaqa or ghug must be scum. I think it is more likely to be Chaqa.

I'm not missing the obvious solution. I was showing how the scenario where Chaqa's town doesn't make sense to me.

Why do you think rd is town? He feels really fake right now.

[Johnny Big Horse]

Holding a shot last night to frame me.

Damo asked me to try to explain who precisely would do that, but now that I think about it, you're right that it isn't that risky at all. So I'm not sure what damo needs to be convinced of.

Makes me second guess clearing him of it a little

I read it as him asking about the whole series of night moves. You and Jamie were both widely townread and known to be exposed N2. Who's shooting JBH there?

if I were scum, and I had a free shot to use, why would I shoot JBH instead of you, Damo, rivera, worcej, celaph, EMC... basically anyone.

No offense to him, but you guys know I love to take out "good" players with nightkills.

agree. I should have been last choice to shoot.

[Johnny Big Horse]

Not a lot of time left. You guys have thought hard, and I have left this to you, because ... well, I don't have much a clue quite yet.

Perhaps you can think of the EASIEST solution. What is that? Is there an easy solution?

Maybe it is Chaca. As I said I am following Worcez right now. Ghug almost has me convinced to follow him.

[damo666]

@ghug if Chaqa is town then JBH is town so if we are both town then there are only 4 people who can be scum {rdr, worcej, emc, braincel}. Now you say you cannot envisage an rdr worcej scumpair and I cannot envisage an emc worcej scumpair so it's impossible. The obvious solution [what you're missing] is Chaqa is scum.

So from mpov one of Chaqa or ghug must be scum. I think it is more likely to be Chaqa.

I'm not missing the obvious solution. I was showing how the scenario where Chaqa's town doesn't make sense to me.

Why do you think rd is town? He feels really fake right now.

The 'missing' was a reference to your post questionning Chaqa, that's all.

Anyway, I'm particularly townreading rdr but he's not in my top 3. Unless you particularly think rdr is scum without Chaqa it doesn't really matter for today. He might be bussing but how does scum rdr work without Chaqa? {rdr, emc, braincel} just aboout I guess. I'd much rather just kill Chaqa and woryy about it tomorrow (if there is one).

[damo666]

I'm prepared to end this now. If Chaqa is town then good luck scum, you have taken advantage of Chaqa's stupidity.

##end

[ghug]

@ghug if Chaqa is town then JBH is town so if we are both town then there are only 4 people who can be scum {rdr, worcej, emc, braincel}. Now you say you cannot envisage an rdr worcej scumpair and I cannot envisage an emc worcej scumpair so it's impossible. The obvious solution [what you're missing] is Chaqa is scum.

So from mpov one of Chaqa or ghug must be scum. I think it is more likely to be Chaqa.

I'm not missing the obvious solution. I was showing how the scenario where Chaqa's town doesn't make sense to me.

Why do you think rd is town? He feels really fake right now.

The 'missing' was a reference to your post questionning Chaqa, that's all.

Anyway, I'm particularly townreading rdr but he's not in my top 3. Unless you particularly think rdr is scum without Chaqa it doesn't really matter for today. He might be bussing but how does scum rdr work without Chaqa? {rdr, emc, braincel} just aboout I guess. I'd much rather just kill Chaqa and woryy about it tomorrow (if there is one).

Right, I know which post you were referencing. I'm just saying you missed the entire point of the post.

I'd like us to be thinking through everything today. We gain little from killing Chaqa without discussion.

[ghug]

Like there's a whole paragraph about Chaqa as scum being easier to imagine. What?

[damo666]

OK ##unend

It'll take some persuading to move me off Chaqa.

[damo666]

Be nice if emc and celaph could actually post.

And Chaqa I thought this was your big posting day? You seem to have given up. This is more scum indicative than town indicative.

[Chaqa]

Be nice if emc and celaph could actually post.

And Chaqa I thought this was your big posting day? You seem to have given up. This is more scum indicative than town indicative.

The day is just starting for me?

[Chaqa]

I just got done with work.

I’ve already explained why I scumread Hamilton, I didn’t explain it much ahead of time because that’s not really something I do. I’m not a huge case builder and I don’t always explain myself, it is what it is.

I’ll quote the post I made when I get back to my pc

[damo666]

Be nice if emc and celaph could actually post.

And Chaqa I thought this was your big posting day? You seem to have given up. This is more scum indicative than town indicative.

The day is just starting for me?

Yeah ok. It's ending for me lol.