M68: Guns N' Roses GAMETHREAD [hidden]

[rdrivera2005]

Somebody please check this:

Scum team {Chaqa, Jamie, x} where x is not JBH


I think this is impossible unless there is an undisclosed town shooter. Am ki correct?

I want Johnny to realise his theory makes no sense. The fact he proposes it probably indicates he is town. Or perhaps he is scum who can't or hasn't thought it through.

Yeah, I think this holds up. I liked your theory that both faction kill + shot onto Snowy, but Chaqa's counterargument seems accurate.

Only other way I can make this work is by shooting a dead person which I don't think is allowed.

Yes, I was wrong, I foegot you are told if you are hit more then once.

[Johnny Big Horse]

I suspect Jamie and I are both alive specifically to push these theories. I don't know if Johnny is being coached, but I'm back to sort of thinking we need to flip him now in case the worst-case scenario is true.

Johnny today then Worc or Rivera or Hamilton tomorrow?

Johnny today then EMC or Worcej tomorrow.

EMC and Worcej, it is time to unite. Otherwise, you are toast also. Let's build a block and take out one of these mafiosos... I prefer Damo, as I enjoy Jamie's abuse.

[Johnny Big Horse]

You have made multiple false, fake statements about me, as I have demonstrated.

Other than the BB thing, what else is fake/false?

He said that President Eden was scumreading me when he died. False. (But at least he has accepted this one was false; he says he made a mistake).

He said that I got mad, indeed "furious", even "out of control angry" with him (JBH, not Eden) on D1. False.

He also said at the start of the day that "everybody" had declared him to be obviously town , which is a load of crap.

I made mistake on point 1. Day 1, Eden had you as scum, and Day 2, he changed his mind. I got mixed up.

Point 2: there is no way to quantify furious or out of control angry. I thought you were abusive. You called me all sorts of names that I haven't ever been called actually. Ever. So to me, yes, furious and out of control. You have a temper. So, not false. You can say that this one cannot be judged. Perhaps you were not furious or out of control angry. From my perspective it appeared that way.

Point 3: I never said everyone declared me to be town. It doesn't matter if everyone declares anyone to be town, because people's perceptions change. Not sure where you got that point from. So, I am not wrong here.

No lies here, no obfuscating truth from JBH. Jaime, you are expert at it. I just hope the others can see through it.

[worcej]

I suspect Jamie and I are both alive specifically to push these theories. I don't know if Johnny is being coached, but I'm back to sort of thinking we need to flip him now in case the worst-case scenario is true.

Johnny today then Worc or Rivera or Hamilton tomorrow?

Johnny today then EMC or Worcej tomorrow.

EMC and Worcej, it is time to unite. Otherwise, you are toast also. Let's build a block and take out one of these mafiosos... I prefer Damo, as I enjoy Jamie's abuse.

I am still catching up to make a decision on which route to go.

I definitely get town vibes from your rabbit hole, if that helps any.

[Johnny Big Horse]

Johnny today then EMC or Worcej tomorrow.

EMC and Worcej, it is time to unite. Otherwise, you are toast also. Let's build a block and take out one of these mafiosos... I prefer Damo, as I enjoy Jamie's abuse.

I am still catching up to make a decision on which route to go.

I definitely get town vibes from your rabbit hole, if that helps any.

Just kill Damo and prove me wrong, and if I am wrong, I will do the bidding of Jaime like a shackled and battered eunich. I will say, yes mam, no mam, how do I vote mam.

[Jamiet99uk]

@JBH, as much as I am rooting for you being the newest player, and you're trying with the arguments, I'd have to think someone would pipe in right now in support of your arguments. Even with Damo and Jamie on you and your arguments, there are 6 other people that could be chiming in to tell them they're wrong.

You might have gone down a rabbit hole; in the time left today, see if there is anyting else that seems off to you. I know that's not too helpful.

This is a townie post

[Jamiet99uk]

I suspect Jamie and I are both alive specifically to push these theories. I don't know if Johnny is being coached, but I'm back to sort of thinking we need to flip him now in case the worst-case scenario is true.

Johnny today then Worc or Rivera or Hamilton tomorrow?

Johnny today then EMC or Worcej tomorrow.

EMC and Worcej, it is time to unite. Otherwise, you are toast also. Let's build a block and take out one of these mafiosos... I prefer Damo, as I enjoy Jamie's abuse.

BDSM relationship possibility noted.

[Jamiet99uk]

EMC and Worcej, it is time to unite. Otherwise, you are toast also. Let's build a block and take out one of these mafiosos... I prefer Damo, as I enjoy Jamie's abuse.

I am still catching up to make a decision on which route to go.

I definitely get town vibes from your rabbit hole, if that helps any.

Just kill Damo and prove me wrong, and if I am wrong, I will do the bidding of Jaime like a shackled and battered eunich. I will say, yes mam, no mam, how do I vote mam.

You will call me "Sir" or I will spank you no more.

[Chaqa]

Johnny BDSM Horse?

[rdrivera2005]

Other than the BB thing, what else is fake/false?

He said that President Eden was scumreading me when he died. False. (But at least he has accepted this one was false; he says he made a mistake).

He said that I got mad, indeed "furious", even "out of control angry" with him (JBH, not Eden) on D1. False.

He also said at the start of the day that "everybody" had declared him to be obviously town , which is a load of crap.

I made mistake on point 1. Day 1, Eden had you as scum, and Day 2, he changed his mind. I got mixed up.

Point 2: there is no way to quantify furious or out of control angry. I thought you were abusive. You called me all sorts of names that I haven't ever been called actually. Ever. So to me, yes, furious and out of control. You have a temper. So, not false. You can say that this one cannot be judged. Perhaps you were not furious or out of control angry. From my perspective it appeared that way.

Point 3: I never said everyone declared me to be town. It doesn't matter if everyone declares anyone to be town, because people's perceptions change. Not sure where you got that point from. So, I am not wrong here.

No lies here, no obfuscating truth from JBH. Jaime, you are expert at it. I just hope the others can see through it.

Johnny, take a breath and try to listen to what other people are saying.

It's almost mechanically impossible that Jamiet is scum and you are town unless Chaqa is town and shot the only scum that chose a N1 rose. This is so unlikely that we can't base all our reads on it.

So, if you are town then Jamiet is also likely town. Take this into consideration.

[Hamilton Brian]

Johnny, take a breath and try to listen to what other people are saying.

It's almost mechanically impossible that Jamiet is scum and you are town unless Chaqa is town and shot the only scum that chose a N1 rose. This is so unlikely that we can't base all our reads on it.

So, if you are town then Jamiet is also likely town. Take this into consideration.

As I've been leaning into rivera as town lately since my brain farts on D2 voting, this is a pretty town-like post. Scum would prefer nothing more than to just let the continued flailing dominate the remaining hours.

Speaking of which... I think I am going to have to throw my vote somewhere, and I am running out of choices.

[Chaqa]

Are we missing something obvious?

[Chaqa]

Night 1, mafia shot Snowy. Why?

Night 2, mafia shot Snowy again, though this time it's obvious why.

They also shot Eden, and (possibly) shot Johnny.

This nightkills are really weird.

Why haven't ghug, brain, myself, Jamie, etc. been targeted?

[Hamilton Brian]

Are we missing something obvious?

What do you mean? And was this addressed to the collective "we?" What are you thinking?

[Hamilton Brian]

Night 1, mafia shot Snowy. Why?

Night 2, mafia shot Snowy again, though this time it's obvious why.

They also shot Eden, and (possibly) shot Johnny.

This nightkills are really weird.

Why haven't ghug, brain, myself, Jamie, etc. been targeted?

Again, you and Jamie probably should have stood as obvious nightkills. No chance of hitting a vest since all three of your objects were used. Only PE had something unclaimed so a big chance on them.,

[celaph]

@ghug, rdrivera2005, celaph - If you see this, could you expand on why HB over JBH?

Damo and Jamie are dominating the conversation about him atm.

I'm really curious how rdr makes Chaqa/Jamie/Damo scumteam work. For now I'm going to assume that it's impossible and move on.

I've heard two arguments in favor of JBH:
1) Killing him is the only way to ensure that we don't die today
2) The rather poor and factually challenged arguments that he is making.

Argument (1) I think is a bad argument if it's not supported by other reasons to scumread someone. Otherwise, I suspect it's just a scare tactic to get through miskills on townies that are not otherwise easy targets. Yes I know I risk insta-losing by voting someone else, but I think that long term I have a better chance of winning this way. That is partly why I townread Damo's departure from this argument and also why I'm not a fan of his return.

Argument (2) I think on the whole is rather weak because scum don't tend to argue nor find success making false claims as they are easily countered. That said, I fully admit that I have a personal blind spot for scum making suboptimal plays that seem to scummy to be done by scum.

A closer look at examples:

Furthermore, @JBH, President Eden did not list me in his final scumreads:

If I die tonight, my best guess at the mafia team is Chaqa, rivera, worcej, but I only feel confident about Chaqa and I won't be upset if you ignore my other two reads.

At this point you are either not reading the game, or you are just making up lies.

I am either making up lies, or I am misreading this post. You guys post so cryptically often. I am sure PE says in this quote that he is confident that Chaqa is mafia.

He did NOT list you as scum in his final read. Yes. You are right. He did, Night 1, and then he changed his mind. I trusted PE most.

Ok, so I didn't lie, I was lazy, and I apologize for that. He said Chaqa, not Jamie.

Some of the messages from Jamie suggest that he sees Johnny as charging forth recklessly, possibly after being coached, to just create a distraction. That said, I do not see a new player in that space having the wherewithal to admit error in this way, it requires to much self awareness.

4. Why did you flip out at Brainbomb on Day 1, during the first 8 hours of this game? What was that about?

4. I reject the suggestion that I "flipped out" at anybody. I had, at best, a mildy salty exchange with Brainbomb, in which you are exaggerating or mis-reading the level of my emotions. I refer you to my answer to #2. I have not begun to lose my temper in this game.

I think it's totally possible for both people to be right here. I don't think it's unreasonable for a new person to see Jamie's rhetoric towards Brain D1 as antagonistic though I personally think Jamie did a decent job staying rather level headed and calm. I also think JBH's opinion on this front has been rather consistent which is probably a towny sign. See:

It seems to me, that either Brainbomb or Jaime, one of them, has got to be mafia, OR... maybe they just hate each other. One of these three. I guess we will find out later.

And lastly, I think that accusing you of coaching JBH is a particularly poor take.

You're also deliberately spelling my name wrong in a way that annoys me. You wouldn't necessarily have known that the spelling "Jaime" particularly irritates me, but I'll tell you who DOES know that. Worcej. He could be the one coaching you.

If you note in the above message from JBH, he's has been misspelling Jamie's name since early D1. So if he's been coached then he must have been coached in the initial item choosing phase in which case I would expect that this clash to have started before today. So unless they've been fighting all game, I think the recent attention to it is more confbias than an actual argument.

The pronouns thing bothers me more. A brief search on the bot suggests that he uses pronouns very rarely to refer to Jamie though more frequently when talking about others though I did find at least one using male pronouns when referring to Jamie.

More of the same. Jamiet deflecting. He does this. He asks your reasons for your suspicions of him, and then he doesn't respond. At least he has done that twice to me. Maybe no response because I am of lesser mental capacity. But I think it is clear Jamiet is scum.
[Rest of post + quote above snipped]

If JBH used she/her pronouns unintentionally, then he should apologize and try not to do that in the future. If it was intentional, then that is very not cool and they should stop.

[Chaqa]

Night 1, mafia shot Snowy. Why?

Night 2, mafia shot Snowy again, though this time it's obvious why.

They also shot Eden, and (possibly) shot Johnny.

This nightkills are really weird.

Why haven't ghug, brain, myself, Jamie, etc. been targeted?

Again, you and Jamie probably should have stood as obvious nightkills. No chance of hitting a vest since all three of your objects were used. Only PE had something unclaimed so a big chance on them.,

I fully expect Jamie and I to be the next two deaths, whether they're both tonight or over the next two days.

[rdrivera2005]

Night 1, mafia shot Snowy. Why?

Night 2, mafia shot Snowy again, though this time it's obvious why.

They also shot Eden, and (possibly) shot Johnny.

This nightkills are really weird.

Why haven't ghug, brain, myself, Jamie, etc. been targeted?

Snowy was solid town and questioning a lot, so not a unusual choice for D1 kill. Eden and JBH over Jamiet is something I don't have an explanation other then one of Jamiet/JBH is scum or scum wants to spread chaos (which worked).

[worcej]

[snip...]

I like this post, but it didn't really tell me why HB has your vote.

[Hamilton Brian]

At this stage I wouldn't be putting a vote on Jamie, JBH, or Rivera.

They're about as confidently town as I can muster.

I probably wouldn't drop a vote on worcej today.

I don't feel like ghug or celaph were working in good faith with regard to my damo rabbit hole. Simply dissing the quality of the message and not acknowleding the message itself. Well, celaph kind of did.