MAFIA 67 OFFICIAL GAME THREAD —//—//— CURSE OF THE AZURE BONDS [hidden]

[Hamilton Brian]

There goes my notion.
RIP Demon.
Man, I am such back and forth with...everyone.

Macca, what strikes you odd for Vecna?

[TheMadMonarch]

There goes my notion.
RIP Demon.
Man, I am such back and forth with...everyone.

Macca, what strikes you odd for Vecna?

He's alive.
He's actually not that good, not worth killing N1 everytime. So he's probably playing a scumgame.
The way he protected lfischl by trying to hunt for the giant? It's a move I personally disagree with.
Someone needs to be scum, and there are other, townier people around.

[Hamilton Brian]

Well, I am surprised Demon was axed; they weren't bringing down the house from what I recall. I guess I can relish the fact that I townread them but I can't think of anything they said that seemed to have much consequence.

[Hamilton Brian]

Alright, let's not quit. We didn't give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!

Really though, we can't hand the game over this easily.

Who is someone you trust more than anyone else? Why?

Maybe if we start there we can come up with something as we disagree, fight, argue.

But might as well get the train rolling. We need a competing set of wagons, right? Ir is it Hail Mary time?

If it's Hail Mary time, then Vecna.
If it's competition, ##Vote EMC.

[rdrivera2005]

RIP Demon

I am completely torn here. I am starting to question why Vecna is still alive, but I don't have any big scum tell from him other then the fact he is still alive.

Emc and Celaph are my other possibilities but it's a lot more because they have little impact then any other thing.

Macca seems solid town this game and HB seems to be really making an effort to solve.

Gimix is a wildcard.

Right now ##vote Vecna

[Vecna]

There goes my notion.
RIP Demon.
Man, I am such back and forth with...everyone.

Macca, what strikes you odd for Vecna?

He's alive.
He's actually not that good, not worth killing N1 everytime. So he's probably playing a scumgame.
The way he protected lfischl by trying to hunt for the giant? It's a move I personally disagree with.
Someone needs to be scum, and there are other, townier people around.

Let me ask you this (even though I really doubt ill change your mind, but I have to give it a shot);

If I get nightkilled here, what happens? People probably are surprised one of the people most are suspicious about just died, and they might sheep my reads.

What happened now that RHK died? Absolutely nothing. He had no reads. He was a total wildcard. Scum are clearly fine with the status quo and the way people are reading the game. Or maybe im right, and the scum just need the 2 easiest misskills remaining.

Also youre point that ive been bad is total bullshit. I might not have voiced my reads like I usually do (as elaborate and as soon as they happen) but ive still been right on nearly everything. Im one of the main voters on the damo wagon on d1 and that ghug was forced to reveal himself. I kept pushing that ghug was trying to save damo. I might not have known whether he did it as PR or scum, but my logic was sound.

also the lfischl thing.....so you disagree with it. doing things differemtly does not make someone scum.

[Vecna]

RIP Demon

I am completely torn here. I am starting to question why Vecna is still alive, but I don't have any big scum tell from him other then the fact he is still alive.

Emc and Celaph are my other possibilities but it's a lot more because they have little impact then any other thing.

Macca seems solid town this game and HB seems to be really making an effort to solve.

Gimix is a wildcard.

Right now ##vote Vecna

Youre still allive as well. Youre not actually being scumread by anyone right now.

So why is me being alive a surprise? More of a surprise than you, yourself? Because quite a lot of people were suspicious of me, yesterday, including you.

3 prs were killed, and then the guy you thought was meant to frame you.

I completely understand maccas vote, frustrating as it might be.

Id have expected differently from you. At least to try and think of other reasons for the current situation.



this one, not so much

[Vecna]

##vote celaph

[gimix]

"You're alive" is rather a funny argument - "You too".

If I was scum, I believe I would use one of two tactics: talk too much, and try to pull the wool on everybody's eyes; or talk too little and immaterially, and let things go by themselves.
So I understand why I raised some suspicions - my posts have been resembling the second option above. Conversely I had some bad vibes about HB and Vecna because they seemed to me to be following the first one.
But as the game developed it has been increasingly clear that scums don't need to intervene that much since we already made some wrong choices.
So now my classification is somehow reversed compared to a few days ago:
town: HB, Vecna
probably town: Macca
don't know: Rivera
not so town: emc, Celaph

[Vecna]

Why would scum not talk middle of the road and still gently try to nudge things in the direction that they want them to go?

If you think im town for example, what sets Macca apart from EMC and Celaph?

[gimix]

It's just that I got an impression of sincerity in Macca's posts, more than in the others'.
And perhaps it also is that I always assumed Macca to be town, and I'm a bit slow in changing my mind

[rdrivera2005]

RIP Demon

I am completely torn here. I am starting to question why Vecna is still alive, but I don't have any big scum tell from him other then the fact he is still alive.

Emc and Celaph are my other possibilities but it's a lot more because they have little impact then any other thing.

Macca seems solid town this game and HB seems to be really making an effort to solve.

Gimix is a wildcard.

Right now ##vote Vecna

Youre still allive as well. Youre not actually being scumread by anyone right now.

So why is me being alive a surprise? More of a surprise than you, yourself? Because quite a lot of people were suspicious of me, yesterday, including you.

3 prs were killed, and then the guy you thought was meant to frame you.

I completely understand maccas vote, frustrating as it might be.

Id have expected differently from you. At least to try and think of other reasons for the current situation.



this one, not so much

Ok. You have a point here that people being suspicious of you is a good reason to keep you alive as you might be a misskill. But having you alive at milo is also a big risk to scum.

About me, I was alive at milo in the last two games and lost both, so I don't think it's too unexpected.

And I am questioning. I was ready to vote emc today after you were the NK, but I don't see emc targeting Demon over you. Ok, he can be Sniper still, but it makes him less likely at least on my mind.

So, I have a question for you. Who do you think is capable of killing Demon over you?

[Vecna]

Honestly, my first reaction seeing the kill was "this smells like something Rdrivera would do".

After giving it some more thought and rereading RHK I can think of a few reasons:

-The last time RHK gave reads on people that are still alive was during D2. He was suspicious of HB. He was not killed for the reads he expressed, that much is pretty clear. (if HB is scum in some way were all unaware off, why kill the one guy in the game that might not even be suspicious of him even more).

-He might be killed because he is the only one with unexpressed reads. If everyone else has reads favorable to scum, why mess with that balance. Better to kill the wildcard. This is probably most in-line with my initial gut feeling of "this was Rdrivera". I dont think this is actually all that plausible, because youre much more pragmatic and would just kill a universal townread.

-He was killed as a distraction, to create suspicion. If the NK wouldve been on HB/Macca/Vecna/Rdrivera noone bats an eye. Noone questions their reads because of the NK. This NK adds the entire dimension of "why didnt X die". This also adds the whole extra argument that im sure someone is going to make of: "Vecna strongly townread RHK and then killed him to look good for his reads". Main beneficiaries of a kill for those reasons are obvious. I think this is by far the most likely reason for him to be killed. Suspicion against me wouldve also been very easy to create by killing a town-macca, but he was already a guaranteed vote against me anyway.

-Naturally it can also be because one of the people that has to die before endgame is scum, and theyre creating a pool of natural kill targets to hide in. I think this is not that likely either since scum then has to kill more potential misskill targets.

The real reason is probably a combination of any of these reasons, especially if a townread jailer is trying to protect a scumread sniper.

All in all, I dont think these mindgames are all that useful for us to indulge in. Maybe at some point if we manage to snatch the sniper first and are still looking for the jailer. For now, I think anyone couldve had a reason to make this kill. I do certainly think that certain players are more likely to be thinking creatively in such a manner to make this kill (Myself, EMC) or just lack the knowledge of the playerbase to decide otherwise (gimmix).

[Vecna]

lol, hello wall

[Vecna]

Question to all: Does anyone actually think my defense/plan regarding lfischl yesterday was acted?

Because if you think it was genuine (which you should), it logically follows I can only be the sniper and not the jailer.

And if you think it was genuine, and I can thus only be the sniper, can you please realize I would never want lfischl to be in charge of making the scumkills but would just wanna carry the scumteam myself?

Goddamn, thats some pretty good reasoning why Im obv-town

[Hamilton Brian]

I've got to spend time with the roles again. Too much ticky tacky.

[Hamilton Brian]

I just need to put this in writing so I can determine if you're HonestTownVecna or ScumCausingConfusionVecna.

So mafia is out Goon and Shambler. This leaves Sniper and Jailor. From the writeup:

Jailor: Once per night Mogion may jail a player. Any player targeted in this way will be effectively jailed, unable to take actions, and immune to actions, death effects, including poisoning. A player who has been jailed in this way will learn they were jailed. If a jailed player was targeted, only Mogion will learn of the target attempt. A player who targeted the jailed player will learn their action failed. You win when the town is defeated.

Sniper: Any phase, once per game, you may choose to perform an instant day kill by throwing a massive lightning bolt. A kill performed in this way may not be prevented by healing. You win when the town is defeated. You are not part of the Mafia Chat, you will not know your teammates, and you cannot perform the Mafia’s factional kill. If you are the last mafia standing you will gain a day kill each phase instead.

So, to jailor...has anyone learned they were jailed? Is there a reason jailor would no longer use the role? Probably not when town PRs are all dead. So in effect, they're walking around effectively protecting the sniper...deflecting any wagonning away from them (I think?). Does it matter to the jailor if the sniper gets killed?

Sniper...that action has been used up. They are just waiting around, with no clue who their final partner is. So how does one play that? Quietly? Just enough in the background? Or rushing to every wagon because as soon as they get a day kill, each day, they get closer to winning. Right?

SO with that being what I think the setup is pushing, how do we get through it? How do we get the sniper? By looking at who someone hasn't pushed? Because we want that sonofabiscuit out of the way.

I think?

[Vecna]

The daykill for sniper replaces the usual scum nightkill (since noone will be left in the scum QT once the last mafia dies).

Not sure what youre asking of me though?

[Hamilton Brian]

Probably scumVecna doesn't flippantly suggest in a post that they're possibly the sniper to generate suspicion.

Or scumVecna says "If I bring it up myself, then no one would believe that I am those things, so I seem more town."

Jesus.

[Hamilton Brian]

The daykill for sniper replaces the usual scum nightkill (since noone will be left in the scum QT once the last mafia dies).

Not sure what youre asking of me though?

I don't know if I am asking anything from you. I'm just going around in circles here, chasing my tail, and sniffing my own butt.