MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[celaph]

But you are scummy today.

My latest series of posts is very town.

Why have you switched to Macca after I called for a move to Bona. You just being awkward? Don't say I'm trying to save Macca please.

##vote Macca for consolidation.

I amend my previous call and now ask Bona voters to either
Switch to Macca or make an impassioned defence of them.

Thank you.

I do not think a defence of Macca needs to be made. I think A CASE AGAINST MACCA NEEDS TO BE MADE.

Everyone is being lazy, unfortunately.

I think their catch-up D3 was exceptionally lackluster and their vote pushes against Darg is rather anti-town. While I agree that this feels like the default vote, I don't think that necessarily makes it a bad vote. I don't see a world where they can survive 4 days so if they're town I feel similarly to rdr and just want it over. Also, your advocating that we won't get much info from killing Macca, but we have no additional info if we kill others now. Lastly, as Chaqa has pointed out, we do get some info from Macca especially if they flip janitor.

[celaph]

If you are town, I think we should flip Bona or yavu, who seems to be the other "high on the list."

Flipping one of these two gives us insight into the scum game. Macca did not play for like 6 phases. We are going to have shit all to go on.

I think Macca will be a DK at some point if the game isn't over. But I think the way everyone just jumped ship is weird. And we can get a solid towncore if Bona flip scum. Or we lose now and avoid one more week of pain

##vote Bona

I agree with the last sentence though I think it applies equally well to Macca.

[celaph]

Bona has been
1. stubbornly stuck on scumming kgray for kgray's townread of celaph D2.
2. OMGUS scumreading me today - which is actually a scumread that began D1.
3. stubbornly scumming darg until he flipped cop.

In other words, bona has been very tunneled on three players who otherwise have not merited much suspicion. This is exactly what you say bona does as scum.

And yet, you conclude bona is town.

Why do you think these three instances of doing the thing you say is bona's scum tell do you not indicate he is scum this game? Or, what specific thing has bona done, other than voting for DemonRHK, that you think indicates he is town?

You didn't read my explanation of Bona completely.

He does that as scum when he is accused by them first. A good example from Among Us would be one time, Eden accused Bona for reasons XYZ which were somewhat good, and Bona reacted by throwing all possible sus onto Eden, for shaky reasons, despite it not making much sense.

I've actually found that when Bona makes proactive scumreads that seem a little off, he's either completely wrong (F) or completely right. Hard to say whch of his reads are which yet.

Bona didn’t say I was “untownie” and “100% scum” until after my wallposts on him. This seems to confirm your assertions. His shading me is shaky and doesn’t make sense (he is now engaging me as if I am town, if you read how he is responding to me).

Also, saying someone’s scum reads are right or wrong is a truism.

If bona is scum I think Chaqa might be scum with him.

I think this is a better reason to vote Bona over Macca than Macca being the default wagon.

[celaph]

@Macca, can you speak to your unvote at the moment?

[damo666]

Bona has been
1. stubbornly stuck on scumming kgray for kgray's townread of celaph D2.
2. OMGUS scumreading me today - which is actually a scumread that began D1.
3. stubbornly scumming darg until he flipped cop.

In other words, bona has been very tunneled on three players who otherwise have not merited much suspicion. This is exactly what you say bona does as scum.

And yet, you conclude bona is town.

Why do you think these three instances of doing the thing you say is bona's scum tell do you not indicate he is scum this game? Or, what specific thing has bona done, other than voting for DemonRHK, that you think indicates he is town?

You didn't read my explanation of Bona completely.

He does that as scum when he is accused by them first. A good example from Among Us would be one time, Eden accused Bona for reasons XYZ which were somewhat good, and Bona reacted by throwing all possible sus onto Eden, for shaky reasons, despite it not making much sense.

I've actually found that when Bona makes proactive scumreads that seem a little off, he's either completely wrong (F) or completely right. Hard to say whch of his reads are which yet.

Bona didn’t say I was “untownie” and “100% scum” until after my wallposts on him. This seems to confirm your assertions. His shading me is shaky and doesn’t make sense (he is now engaging me as if I am town, if you read how he is responding to me).

Also, saying someone’s scum reads are right or wrong is a truism.

If bona is scum I think Chaqa might be scum with him.

If it's an 'if' aren't you better off voting Macca?

[damo666]

At the moment Macca can (and presumably will) move to Bona and Bona can self vote to tie it and whatever town driven last minute switches we make we could still cock it up and there be a tie.

Can we please cnsolidate on Bona or Macca or do a mass switch to Yav.

I'm really nervous of the current situation.

[kgray]

Basically, if we shimmy-ding-dong Macca today, and then someone who is probably not at all a candidate for DKing gets NKd tonight, we go into tomorrow with very little new information.

Flipping Macca is strategically terrible.

Alright, this makes some sense to me. Mostly I just can't believe the leading wagon in mylo is someone that basically everyone seems to nullread.

[Bonatogether]

This is an interesting point. I have the same reservations I have had about scum-hunting purely from probabilities, but this adds weight to the curiosities of the RBd trio, and I am hesitant around the fact that we are very possibly missing a deep scum (although I am trying to avoid this, because I think a much simpler answer is that celaph is the deep scum).

I actually think it looks the worst for RDR, because by EOD2, three PRs had been neutralized. The scum may have driven themselves to avoid being RBd; the only other investigative role was the journalist. So on N3 they might've held the Driver.

But, yeah... this is very tinfoily. Not sure I'm at the point where I could vote RDR or Chaqa, even though I am giving them both the Larry David look.

Food I swear to god not all scum act in a clearly scum fashion. The 4 or 5 scummy people is not the scumpool, and you are not just trying to avoid hitting the 5th. There are deep scum here. To assume otherwise is to rule out one of the most obvious scum strategies that scum have been doing in every darn game. You refuse to acknowledge this. When I pointed this out earlier you made an offhand "oh I'll modify my POE" but your behavior hasn't changed. You're still acting as if the game is basically solved when it is not.

I know scum don’t always scummy and town don’t always act townie. There’d be no game otherwise.

The problem for me is, we have so little information that I’m going to have to build a POE largely based on who has seemed scummy across the game. There are very few connections to be drawn because of the nature of the votes we’ve had.

I am not at all saying I’ve solved the game. I am open to revelation. But you’re not exactly presenting new arguments for me to chew over - you’re just telling me I could be wrong, which I agree with.

I’m still going to make the best decision I can, even knowing I could be wrong. I think it’s vastly more wrong to vote for celaph, kgray or damo today than it is to vote for you, Macca or yavu.

You're saying that you know this, but you don't act like it. You refuse to consider the idea of a deep threat - "It's vastly more wrong to vote for celaph, kgray or damo". If you actually think that you could be wrong, you need to consider more possibilities than dismissing it out of hand: "oh it's possible but not likely so i'll ignore it".

[Chaqa]

Bona has been
1. stubbornly stuck on scumming kgray for kgray's townread of celaph D2.
2. OMGUS scumreading me today - which is actually a scumread that began D1.
3. stubbornly scumming darg until he flipped cop.

In other words, bona has been very tunneled on three players who otherwise have not merited much suspicion. This is exactly what you say bona does as scum.

And yet, you conclude bona is town.

Why do you think these three instances of doing the thing you say is bona's scum tell do you not indicate he is scum this game? Or, what specific thing has bona done, other than voting for DemonRHK, that you think indicates he is town?

You didn't read my explanation of Bona completely.

He does that as scum when he is accused by them first. A good example from Among Us would be one time, Eden accused Bona for reasons XYZ which were somewhat good, and Bona reacted by throwing all possible sus onto Eden, for shaky reasons, despite it not making much sense.

I've actually found that when Bona makes proactive scumreads that seem a little off, he's either completely wrong (F) or completely right. Hard to say whch of his reads are which yet.

Bona didn’t say I was “untownie” and “100% scum” until after my wallposts on him. This seems to confirm your assertions. His shading me is shaky and doesn’t make sense (he is now engaging me as if I am town, if you read how he is responding to me).

Also, saying someone’s scum reads are right or wrong is a truism.

If bona is scum I think Chaqa might be scum with him.

Sure, sure. Caught us.

ScumBona doesn't kill RHK there. You're in a tunfoil

[kgray]

My latest series of posts is very town.

Why have you switched to Macca after I called for a move to Bona. You just being awkward? Don't say I'm trying to save Macca please.

##vote Macca for consolidation.

I amend my previous call and now ask Bona voters to either
Switch to Macca or make an impassioned defence of them.

Thank you.

I do not think a defence of Macca needs to be made. I think A CASE AGAINST MACCA NEEDS TO BE MADE.

Everyone is being lazy, unfortunately.

I think their catch-up D3 was exceptionally lackluster and their vote pushes against Darg is rather anti-town. While I agree that this feels like the default vote, I don't think that necessarily makes it a bad vote. I don't see a world where they can survive 4 days so if they're town I feel similarly to rdr and just want it over. Also, your advocating that we won't get much info from killing Macca, but we have no additional info if we kill others now. Lastly, as Chaqa has pointed out, we do get some info from Macca especially if they flip janitor.

Lackluster isn't scummy for Macca (no offense Macca) and Bona also pushed against Darg but in a blatantly scummier way. So why is Macca a better vote?

What do you mean we have no additional info if we kill others now? Either the game ends or we caught another scumbo.

If Macca is scum, what does Macca flipping Janitor or not Janitor even tell us?

[damo666]

##vote Yav

[kgray]

You didn't read my explanation of Bona completely.

He does that as scum when he is accused by them first. A good example from Among Us would be one time, Eden accused Bona for reasons XYZ which were somewhat good, and Bona reacted by throwing all possible sus onto Eden, for shaky reasons, despite it not making much sense.

I've actually found that when Bona makes proactive scumreads that seem a little off, he's either completely wrong (F) or completely right. Hard to say whch of his reads are which yet.

Bona didn’t say I was “untownie” and “100% scum” until after my wallposts on him. This seems to confirm your assertions. His shading me is shaky and doesn’t make sense (he is now engaging me as if I am town, if you read how he is responding to me).

Also, saying someone’s scum reads are right or wrong is a truism.

If bona is scum I think Chaqa might be scum with him.

I think this is a better reason to vote Bona over Macca than Macca being the default wagon.

Who's voting for Bona because Macca is the default wagon...?

[rdrivera2005]

If you are town, I think we should flip Bona or yavu, who seems to be the other "high on the list."

Flipping one of these two gives us insight into the scum game. Macca did not play for like 6 phases. We are going to have shit all to go on.

I think Macca will be a DK at some point if the game isn't over. But I think the way everyone just jumped ship is weird. And we can get a solid towncore if Bona flip scum. Or we lose now and avoid one more week of pain

##vote Bona

I agree with the last sentence though I think it applies equally well to Macca.

True, but I will be pretty solid on Food, Kgray and Damo being town if Bona flip scum and this will help a lot to sort things out. If Macca also flip scum next maybe less, but then we would be in a really better position anyway.

[kgray]

At the moment Macca can (and presumably will) move to Bona and Bona can self vote to tie it and whatever town driven last minute switches we make we could still cock it up and there be a tie.

Can we please cnsolidate on Bona or Macca or do a mass switch to Yav.

I'm really nervous of the current situation.

I feel pretty great about the people I'm voting with, and we're on my top scumread. I'm not moving.

[foodcoats]

Food I swear to god not all scum act in a clearly scum fashion. The 4 or 5 scummy people is not the scumpool, and you are not just trying to avoid hitting the 5th. There are deep scum here. To assume otherwise is to rule out one of the most obvious scum strategies that scum have been doing in every darn game. You refuse to acknowledge this. When I pointed this out earlier you made an offhand "oh I'll modify my POE" but your behavior hasn't changed. You're still acting as if the game is basically solved when it is not.

I know scum don’t always scummy and town don’t always act townie. There’d be no game otherwise.

The problem for me is, we have so little information that I’m going to have to build a POE largely based on who has seemed scummy across the game. There are very few connections to be drawn because of the nature of the votes we’ve had.

I am not at all saying I’ve solved the game. I am open to revelation. But you’re not exactly presenting new arguments for me to chew over - you’re just telling me I could be wrong, which I agree with.

I’m still going to make the best decision I can, even knowing I could be wrong. I think it’s vastly more wrong to vote for celaph, kgray or damo today than it is to vote for you, Macca or yavu.

You're saying that you know this, but you don't act like it. You refuse to consider the idea of a deep threat - "It's vastly more wrong to vote for celaph, kgray or damo". If you actually think that you could be wrong, you need to consider more possibilities than dismissing it out of hand: "oh it's possible but not likely so i'll ignore it".

How am I not considering those possibilities? I'm saying that it's much more likely that you or Macca or yavu are scum (from my perspective), and we should deal with one of the more likely candidates first to garner more information before trying to figure out if any of the townie-looking folks are actually wolves in sheep's clothing. I'm not dismissing it out of hand at all. I'm saying let's make an easier decision first so we have better information to make the harder decisions. That's just good play in Mafia.

[rdrivera2005]

At the moment Macca can (and presumably will) move to Bona and Bona can self vote to tie it and whatever town driven last minute switches we make we could still cock it up and there be a tie.

Can we please cnsolidate on Bona or Macca or do a mass switch to Yav.

I'm really nervous of the current situation.

I am not. I think both can be scum and looking how people react to the wagons could be interesting.
Let´s be honest, we are screwed, so playing safe isn´t an option.

[foodcoats]

Bona didn’t say I was “untownie” and “100% scum” until after my wallposts on him. This seems to confirm your assertions. His shading me is shaky and doesn’t make sense (he is now engaging me as if I am town, if you read how he is responding to me).

Also, saying someone’s scum reads are right or wrong is a truism.

If bona is scum I think Chaqa might be scum with him.

I think this is a better reason to vote Bona over Macca than Macca being the default wagon.

Who's voting for Bona because Macca is the default wagon...?

To be very clear, I think bona is much scummier than Macca. By far. I think it's much likelier bona is scum, than Macca is. If the decision were solely in my hands, we would KO bona because I think it is more likely a successful play for town.

[rdrivera2005]

##vote Yav

This is scummy. Please don´t star t a third wagon now. Having town slipt on three wagons can throw the game to scum.

[foodcoats]

You didn't read my explanation of Bona completely.

He does that as scum when he is accused by them first. A good example from Among Us would be one time, Eden accused Bona for reasons XYZ which were somewhat good, and Bona reacted by throwing all possible sus onto Eden, for shaky reasons, despite it not making much sense.

I've actually found that when Bona makes proactive scumreads that seem a little off, he's either completely wrong (F) or completely right. Hard to say whch of his reads are which yet.

Bona didn’t say I was “untownie” and “100% scum” until after my wallposts on him. This seems to confirm your assertions. His shading me is shaky and doesn’t make sense (he is now engaging me as if I am town, if you read how he is responding to me).

Also, saying someone’s scum reads are right or wrong is a truism.

If bona is scum I think Chaqa might be scum with him.

Sure, sure. Caught us.

ScumBona doesn't kill RHK there. You're in a tunfoil

Do you think there was no busser?

[kgray]

I think this is a better reason to vote Bona over Macca than Macca being the default wagon.

Who's voting for Bona because Macca is the default wagon...?

To be very clear, I think bona is much scummier than Macca. By far. I think it's much likelier bona is scum, than Macca is. If the decision were solely in my hands, we would KO bona because I think it is more likely a successful play for town.

I know, and I agree. Celaph is indicating that people are only on Bona because Macca is the "default" and that's just wrong.