MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[Bonatogether]

As I said to food. You were going quite strongly against the grain, which seemed very townie to me.

I must have missed it when you said that. That's not alignment-indicative for me.

Here you seem to indicate knowledge of your tells... But today you state that you do not know your tells. Can you are chaqa clarify this?

I don't know what's different as scum or town but I do know I would do this regardless.

[Bonatogether]

Why are you talking about me here? Are you implying I'd push for my team to RB Vecna? What basis can you possibly have for that assumption?

Because you had that whole argument about how scum rb their kills? and you said Vecna is a good player, and all?

I never argued that scum normally RB their NK...? I talked about hypotheticals but I didn't say that was standard. I honestly have no idea if it is.

This is bs. You're good enough to be fearkilled d1 by scum, so you've clearly been around long enough to know how people play.

[Jamiet99uk]

Because you had that whole argument about how scum rb their kills? and you said Vecna is a good player, and all?

I never argued that scum normally RB their NK...? I talked about hypotheticals but I didn't say that was standard. I honestly have no idea if it is.

This is bs. You're good enough to be fearkilled d1 by scum, so you've clearly been around long enough to know how people play.

Quote Kgray's posts in which Kgray says the thing you are claiming she said.

[Chaqa]

You OR chaqa.

Bona's Imposter tells are that he gets really really stubbornly stuck on one person who shouldn't warrant much suspicion. I admit it's similar to what he's done here with Darg, but I don't think it's the same because that Imposter mentality is usually in respond to accusations, not a proactive push as he was doing here.

It's subtle, and I might be blind to it based on his compelling VCA towniness, but I don't think he's scum here.

[Chaqa]

More likely to vote for
Macca573
yavuzovic
damo666
rdrivera2005
kgray
celaph
foodcoats
Bonatogether
Less likely to vote for

----------The Hard Line----------
Chaqa
dargorygel
Jamiet99uk

This is about where I'm at. It's a little murky in the middle as beyond Macca and Yavu I'm not sure where to go. The people below "The Hard Line" are people I would never vote for.

[damo666]

Okay, neglect that point.

Bona let’s solve together.

What do you think of damo’s roleblock claim given vecna’s reads and the lack of an item claim?

If Vecna gave an item to town, they should keep it quiet, so assuming Vecna was not roleblocked, this is the expected outcome.

If Vecna gave an item to scum, either they'd have used it or be holding it to claim for towncred at lylo.

However, the meta is to roleblock nks (apparently - I've never been scum with people who know about this).

If scum has a group of people who know and follow the meta, then damo is scum.

If scum is people who either don't know or don't follow the meta, then damo is likely town.

Since I believe the scumteam to be generally more meta-avoiding people, (barring kgray convinces the others in qt) so I think damo is town.

Honestly, the meta is to RB the kill when a doc is in play. In this setup the only way scum would RB the kill is if they knew Vecna was inventor because they know there was no doc.
I looked at Vecna's post and can't find any Inventor crumb.

rdr is town

scum know which set up we are playing from the outset because they know which role they haven't got

[damo666]

So now I'm at Macca Yav & 2 from Chaqa celaph Jamie food Bona

Bona looking increasingly suss so I've added him back to the mix

[damo666]

@darg as most likely NK I assume you have some last minute words for us....

[foodcoats]

I’m the cop

[celaph]

@Food, Responding to all your posts here for ease of writing. @bona, I would love to hear your comments on all this.

The Darg scumread
You comment that at EoN4 (I think this is supposed to be EoN3) Bona is scumreading Darg for a typo. I think everyone would agree that that is a terrible reason to scumread someone and I'm including Bona in that everyone. By putting forward an obviously fake reason for a scumread, people might assume that Bona couldn't possibly be daft enough for that to be his actual reason. The only two plausible actual reasons for Bona to scumread Darg there were if he was cop or ww who had guessed Darg cop. Thus, the intention is to put forward a terrible reason for scumreading Darg to make scum think he has a good reason to scumread Darg and kill him.

Assuming we have town Bona this is the only explanation that makes sense to me. My problem is that even giving him the benefit of the doubt on this, there are still so many questions. He's responded to your messages already and he basically just ignored this point entirely which makes me think he doesn't have a good answer prepared.

The Brain/Kak/Demon scumreads
I think your call out of Bona's word choice with 'incompetence' is on point. Rereading Demon's D1, he feels far more disengaged, apathetic, or just generally inactive. That said, I don't agree with your argument that he scumread Brain and Kak more. About brain he wrote that "I think the Macca thing from him was towny but he overreacted". There is uncertainty there that doesn't exist in his read of Demon. And he clearly saw Kak more as a null saying "I dunno how to read him".

The kgray/celaph scumreads
He's right here that you have misrepresented his previous statements a little bit. I think I remember him saying something about his reads changing at the time. I think it's scummy though how he doesn't seem to have updated this read since then. He posted his POE recently and his scumread of kgray seems to rest entirely on this D2 piece. Has nothing she done before or after this that impacted his opinion at all?

More generally, he's been particularly lackluster when it comes to pushing his scumreads. To connect to his Darg scumread, one of the things that makes me doubt my explanation of his behavior then is that his Darg scumread wasn't obviously different from his other scumreads. They've all been weakly defended and argued.

Macca
You mentioned Macca very briefly in your last post, but I think there is more there than you've included. N1 Bona excused Macca for missing the night. D2 Bona listed Macca as one of his two townreads because of their vibes. Yet two pages later he responds to your question asking if he townreads Macca with "not especially". D3 he recommends that Macca gets subbed out instead of killed. And Macca is non-existent in his most recent POE.

More generally, there have been a bunch of things that around Macca that I would expect Bona to comment on while he hasn't.
-- Macca was one of the other main pushers of Darg though seems to have actually scumread Darg which differs from Bona's given reason.
-- Macca seems to be the most popular DK tomorrow and Bona has left them out of his POE, presumably because he thinks they are town. Presumably Bona believes that we will lose if we vote out Macca so why hasn't he put up any defense of them whatsoever?
-- @Bona, you said that food was misrepresenting your stance on Macca and didn't want to get into this again. Can you point towards where you got into this the first time because I can't find it?

[Jamiet99uk]

I’m the cop

How can you be the Cop when I'm the Cop?

[celaph]

Why?

Because the way you are playing remembers scum Damo. I can´t identify with anything you say. Your post just seems to make sense when you talk about mechanics and this is a strong scum tell.
You arbitrary created a POE that´s me, Yav and Flum, which doesn´t make any sense (like you want to look like town Damo that makes a lot of assumptions) and you left of the hook a lot of scummy players like Bona or Macca. And then you give a pass to Flum because he is willing to vote me or Yav, which even less sense.

And last of it, OMGUS.

This is from rdr on D2.

At this point I'm very curious to know what other players think of damo.

I know damo is very math-oriented, but I am completely blown away that damo is not reading the game, just the votes.

I remember Damo looking really good roughly D3 and 4. His reads before then were rather lackluster and his focus on the numbers is concerning, but I have him as likely town and a bad kill for tomorrow. Also, while it is totally possible that scum held RB to clear him, it wouldn't be my first thought as scum and so I think there is a good chance he was honest there.

[Jamiet99uk]

I might die tonight because I've just revealed my role

I scumread Bona, Macca, Celaph and Chaqa, but I can't entirely clear Damo or Kgray either. Kgray has been less impactful than usual and that's bothering me, and Damo is number-crunching as he usually does, but very little else.

[foodcoats]

—i think it’s important to remember that Kakarroto fooled scum into NKing him. I thought Kak’s claim looked bizarre and scummy (why, why, why would cop ever claim at night when they were a scumlean of several players and there was an extant believed claim?) and I think a level headed team would have killed darg and RBd kak in case and benefited from the confusion, because... that move by Kak would destabilize town if he hadn’t been killed. In particular Chaqa was online and interacting with Kak’s claim and I don’t think scum!Chaqa makes sense there... I think chaqa is savvy enough to stay the course there if he’s scum, because Kak’s claim was so outlandish.

—damo fought my questioning well tonight and I liked what kgray said about him and rdr. This brings my POE down to exactly celaph yavu bona macca.

—i think it’s important to remember that town didn’t just luck out with demon. It’s so easy to misdirect town D1 to get a miskill. So scum either bussed or allowed it to happen. I still think Bona used very strange words to characterize Demon’s play - “incompetent” and “sub par”- that do not make sense from a townie perspective. I think bona maybe drew GF and let it get to his head, or also note demon repeatedly scum-linked celaph and bona, which may have annoyed them. I think celaph would have moved off but bona essentially condemned demon and celaph was stuck because of bona’s play. I also think this fits the fact that others have characterized bona’s previous scumplay as “bold” and “confident” and I find him very arrogant.

—macca and bona interacted tonight in a way that was the most obvious scum theatre I puked. Macca is getting ready to bus bona.

—i would love to flip yavu or bona first because it gives us more info - macca has not been terribly active. However flipping Macca first is still fine and in particular I think Macca is the janitor (hence why no N1 janitor, and then they were afraid of upsetting the cart once all the speculation about the RBs began), so we can finish off that line of speculation about the RBd players being janitor.

—It’s not at all impossible I’m wrong about damo, chaqa, kgray or rdr, but there are good reasons to see them as town and I’d have to get really tinfoily to vote them. I have tried to find the scum in these players and can’t, whereas my proposed team have all acted scummy throughout the game (except yavu, who I think has blended very well).

—and as I write that, I realize I’d like to vote macca or bona first because I’m still a little uneasy with yav. I read him today... probably his biggest scum moment was when he tried to continue the narrative that darg was scum (i can’t recall if that was after maniac’s claim or kak’s). Or his weird push on rdr for voting HB. Definitely more squirrely...

[Jamiet99uk]

SQUAWK! Good luck town!

[foodcoats]

I might die tonight because I've just revealed my role

I scumread Bona, Macca, Celaph and Chaqa, but I can't entirely clear Damo or Kgray either. Kgray has been less impactful than usual and that's bothering me, and Damo is number-crunching as he usually does, but very little else.

Wait wut

[Jamiet99uk]

(Night has ended, please hold?)

[Hellenic Riot]

Night has ended. Please hold.

[Hellenic Riot]

Another break in the fighting after the forces of Kronos once again reach closer to Olympus, and another camper falls to their attacks.

DARGORYGEL has died. He was Clarisse La Rue, the COP.

Day Six has now begun. You have 48 hours.

[Jamiet99uk]

Another break in the fighting after the forces of Kronos once again reach closer to Olympus, and another camper falls to their attacks.

DARGORYGEL has died. He was Clarisse La Rue, the COP.

Day Six has now begun. You have 48 hours.

RIP, Dargorygel. I guess that trick was only going to work once.