MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[Hamilton Brian]

Agree about Jamiet being infuriating some times, but it´s usually a town tell and not a scum tell from him and vets should know it better.

Maybe it's something they're trying to change? I don't know, I know I am stuck in my own head around this and can't see the forest from the trees.

[Hamilton Brian]

Can you give me the Cliff Notes here? What makes you scumread Jamie overall?

I wish I could give you a hard, well-defined reason. What you read from me is exactly where my brain keeps going...back and forth. Hardly anything logical; it's all based on gut-reads where I don't like something that I read, but then I do like something I read.

[Chaqa]

I can't tell if Jamie's death-tunneling on Maniac and his refusal to post more is him being normal Jamie or him pretending to be normal Jamie. I think he and Maniac are both top WW candidates, and possible scum candidates.

Flipping Maniac would give us more info on Day 1. Flipping Jamie would give us mroe info on the roleblock mysteries and might incriminate or exonerate Dargo (which would help with getting some people like Bona and Macca on the same page as the rest of us).

Overall I feel like we should be looking for people who are more likely to be scum than WW at this point, and to me that is Yavu, Macca, Hamilton. I'm okay with a Jamie or Maniac wagon, but I would probably rank my preferences for today like so:

Macca > Yavu > Hamilton >>> Jamie > Maniac

[damo666]

Perhaps I've forgotten something. Why do we think Maniac could be the WW. I understand that Chaqa was RB'd, but why Maniac?

(I have a vague memory of reading why and possibly agreeing, but I can't find it.)

Also, I dislike this strategy because:


Where I assume "we" means "he".

we should have been ww

Sorry

You didn't answer the question at all....

Sorry. Why is Maniac ww? Actually dunno. More likely Jamie anyway lol.

[rdrivera2005]

I can't tell if Jamie's death-tunneling on Maniac and his refusal to post more is him being normal Jamie or him pretending to be normal Jamie. I think he and Maniac are both top WW candidates, and possible scum candidates.

Flipping Maniac would give us more info on Day 1. Flipping Jamie would give us mroe info on the roleblock mysteries and might incriminate or exonerate Dargo (which would help with getting some people like Bona and Macca on the same page as the rest of us).

Overall I feel like we should be looking for people who are more likely to be scum than WW at this point, and to me that is Yavu, Macca, Hamilton. I'm okay with a Jamie or Maniac wagon, but I would probably rank my preferences for today like so:

Macca > Yavu > Hamilton >>> Jamie > Maniac

I think Macca improved a bit today and I like his vote on Maniac. I am more tem happy to wagon Yav if there is enough interest, but I sat there alone for a whole day.

[Hamilton Brian]

For me it's all a lot of shots in the dark and there's pieces from everyone that make me think they'd be a good candidate.

I'm all for clearing up voting behaviour since that seems to be the most clear information we can get. I also know that killing me would be a mis-kill BUT if it serves to clear up anything from Day 1, then it should be an option.

"death-tunneling."

I think the Maniac flip would be more grounded. Flipping Jamie or any of the RB claimants is more ephemeral and just a swirling conspiracy theory I've latched on to.

[Hamilton Brian]

I think Macca improved a bit today and I like his vote on Maniac. I am more tem happy to wagon Yav if there is enough interest, but I sat there alone for a whole day.

I'd agree about Macca; definitely a nonfactor prior to the other day but has made some contributions to the collective thoughts of the group.

[foodcoats]

Rereading D1 from the point where the first vote is placed on Demon...

-kgray refers to her willingness to vote Demon in a way that is just impossible for me to believe she was scum at that stage. It's too off-handed and there are too many alternatives for scum!kgray to focus on.
-Bona actually begins tunneling darg's "fakeclaim" here. This looks even worse. It's problematic because kgray is voting for darg before she moves to RHK, and Bona has also been tunneling "kgray celaph scumteam" as the game goes on, so Bona is (currently, on D4) claiming that scum!kgray was bussing not just RHK but, effectively, bussing darg PRIOR to him making his claim - meaning scum!darg felt pressured to claim when scum!kgray was on his wagon. That's absurd.
-I don't love the way celaph votes for Demon but I'm coming around to it. He is very measured in the way he looks at the darg claim. At the same time, the fact that he never says he scumreads Demon is, for me, a tell. He makes the vote a little less than 3 hours out and could have been planning to move (I've said this before) and failed to do so for some reason - for example just not finding the opportunity to do so believably.
-Hamilton coaches RHK to defend himself.
-Bona says RHK is "incompetent," although... is this really how RHK is playing? How does that word get used? Bona is very precise. This is a very weird word to use. How is one "incompetent" in Forum Mafia? It's not usually the word you would think to use to describe much except 1) how the scum are playing and 2) how the PRs are making choices.
-kgray actually points this out and defends that Demon is better on D2, but that she is scumming him for being disengaged.
-Demon and kgray have a spicy disagreement about self-deprecation. Does not seem scum VS scum to me.
-Hamilton moves off me to yavuzovic and points out it is a vanity wagon. He makes a big list of people he is not crazy about that includes none of the top wagons. So Ham is not happy with the wagons at this point. But he also said he reads RHK as "null to scum." So if he thinks Demon might be scum, but maybe is null, what is the reasoning for creating a vanity wagon? Ham is screaming disengagement here. He does not want to be a part of the vote.
-Funny, brain says "kak is a good counter wagon because he wont be here to defend himself. so if hes scum the mafia will have to fight hard amd actually save him." The only other vote that goes to Kak is Demon's, predictably. I am trying to figure out what this means. Obviously, scum did not try to rush Kak (there is more than an hour to go here)... but I think he was being strongly townread, so it might have been hard. They might have smelled a trap from brain. So Kak is indeed probably town... because otherwise RHK would've tried moving to Hamilton (he could not move to brain who he repeatedly strongly townread).
-Ham says "Ugh, and here I was reading kak as town. Eff me! The brainbomb logic is appealing, as much as it burns me to say, because I don't fully trust them." I'm not sure what Ham is referring to here. But it's interesting that Ham does not move to Kakarroto. Ham could've taken this opportunity to push Kak to four votes. So that's townie points for Ham.
-rdr moving onto Ham looks interesting here if we think that Ham is town. But honestly I think the way this is working at 42 minutes to go, is scum!rdr really going to not just try to find a way onto Kakarroto? RHK would have to be scum with rdr AND Kakarroto here, or they are both town.
-"Torn on this. I’ve got stronger town vibes from ghug and kgray than brain or Chaqa." Absolutely bizarre statement from Ham because kgray, ghug and Chaqa aren't wagons. But this leads him to vote for brian. Huh?
-bona going through and reading the wagons and making comments before voting RHK... makes it just so hard for him to be scum with RHK.
-Maniac voting for Hamilton looks quite bad for Maniac. Maniac hasn't said anything, so Maniac decided in that circumstance to create a 5/4/4 scenario. Does not seem townie. He couldn't directly jump on Kak because that would've tied it.

I hate that this is where I'm at but maybe it should be Maniac today? Ugh. That vote action looks really sus.

[yavuzovic]

Rivera and Macca to be on Maniac makes me think that Jamie can be the third member of the scum team. I will try to look at past interactions.

[foodcoats]

##VOTE Maniac

[foodcoats]

I guess these top wagons are all pretty good.

[yavuzovic]

Napoleon Bonapart

Napoleon Bon(a)together

Napoleoff

[Hamilton Brian]

Rivera and Macca to be on Maniac makes me think that Jamie can be the third member of the scum team. I will try to look at past interactions.

Are you suspecting the three of them to be on the scum team?

IF so, why would they harden their vote like that?

I guess I can think of a couple of reasons, but it's as kooky as a concerted conspiracy to fake roleblocks.

[Chaqa]

@Food - did you read the analysis of Day 1 I did? It combined with some other posts has made me soften on Maniac being scum. I think he is still a very likely WW candidate, but I have more of a vague feeling Day 1 can be explained by the remaining scumteam being like Hamilton, Yavu, Jamie, and maybe a busser.

That said, I'm not nearly sure enough about that, and Maniac is definitely a bus candidate (along with kgray and maybe celaph), so I do like the main three wagons we have going. If we could throw Hamilton in there too, I'd be ecstatic.

[damo666]

I could switch to Maniac on the condition that if he flips town we kill Jamie* tomorrow. Does this appeal?

*As I keep saying if town blocker reveals they blocked me Jamie is off the table (until late if no ww flip).

[Chaqa]

I think DKing Jamie today might be bad too given it's possible scum roleblocked him on Night... 1 was it? or 2? If that's true he can't be scum.

[damo666]

I think DKing Jamie today might be bad too given it's possible scum roleblocked him on Night... 1 was it? or 2? If that's true he can't be scum.

N1.

If he was scumblocked (he may have been townblocked) he could still be ww.

But odds say we shouldn't kill J (today anyway).

@Chaqa what about my idea of dk Maniac and if town dk J tomorrow?

[Hamilton Brian]

Rereading D1 from the point where the first vote is placed on Demon...

-kgray refers to her willingness to vote Demon in a way that is just impossible for me to believe she was scum at that stage. It's too off-handed and there are too many alternatives for scum!kgray to focus on.

I think it's this activity that suggests to me that kgray is not scum

-I don't love the way celaph votes for Demon but I'm coming around to it. He is very measured in the way he looks at the darg claim. At the same time, the fact that he never says he scumreads Demon is, for me, a tell. He makes the vote a little less than 3 hours out and could have been planning to move (I've said this before) and failed to do so for some reason - for example just not finding the opportunity to do so believably.

Nor did I; with all the chatter about Celaph being scum or having been caught by brain, it's this first vote I keep coming back to. I've explained my thinking before. It's this vote that makes me desire to townclear Celaph here.

-Hamilton coaches RHK to defend himself.

Interestingly, on the reread, it looks bad for me. It is less coaching than, "Hey Demon, you're the lead wagon. What have you got to say for yourself." I think you'll understand it was town-motivated to elicit some comments from Demon. The counterpart to this action is the Jamie-Darg interactions when Darg claimed. Could you look at those and suggest, "Jamie is coaching Darg?" I posted it last night if you want to see.

There's a lot more to digest from your big post so I'll let it sit for a bit.

[yavuzovic]

Rivera and Macca to be on Maniac makes me think that Jamie can be the third member of the scum team. I will try to look at past interactions.

Are you suspecting the three of them to be on the scum team?

IF so, why would they harden their vote like that?

I guess I can think of a couple of reasons, but it's as kooky as a concerted conspiracy to fake roleblocks.

Actually I realised that Jamie stayed of Macca wagon for quite a long time in Day 3, but apart from this they don't push each other much, they nearly don't vote for each other (Macca's vote on Jamie today is even scummier because they seemed to vote him but only seemed, then moved on to Maniac immediately.) and these look like mafia connections. I will look further in their messages as I finished catching up.

[yavuzovic]

##vote Macca we need another wagon for today. I scumread jamiet but I agree with Chaqa here:

I think DKing Jamie today might be bad too given it's possible scum roleblocked him on Night... 1 was it? or 2? If that's true he can't be scum.