One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

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Maniac
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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#61 Post by Maniac » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:05 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:51 am
So if Teccles and Maniac are both telling the truth, they are now both the *same* role, and neither of them knows what it is. Correct?
Yes. I don't know how werewolves could've conspired to lie though

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#62 Post by teccles » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:06 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:51 am
So if Teccles and Maniac are both telling the truth, they are now both the *same* role, and neither of them knows what it is. Correct?
I don't think so. I think:
1. Immediately after becoming drunk, I swapped my card with the centre card.
2. At the end, Maniac swapped with the centre card - which was now the doppelganger, acting as drunk, which is town.

So Maniac is definitely town (if his claim is true), and my role is unknown.

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#63 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:24 am

Maniac wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:01 am
So at this point teccles and I would make very bad choices for a daykill.

We each start with around 15% chance of drawing a werewolf card. Now teccles and I effectively clear one another of starting with a werewolf card the other eight players have around 18% chance of being werewolf.

It's possible of course that one or two of the hidden cards were werewolf. But as each one had a 15% chance of being werewolf and I choose one/three, teccles and I are only around 5% likely to be werewolf.

There is a chance I'm the tanner (around 7%) which we'd want to avoid anyway and a remote chance I'm the minion and the remaining two hidden cards are werewolf which would be the only situation where killing me as the minion would be good for town.

If the seer happened to peak at the centre card, both teccles and I are clear. If they peaked at another card then the maths change again.
I think we can rule out you being the Tanner, because if you were the Tanner, what you're doing here would be an exceptionally bad strategy.

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#64 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:19 am

Claims so far:

1. Hamilton Brian
2. Ghug - Claims TROUBLEMAKER who switched KGRAY and JAMIET
3. lfischl
4. bona
5. Maniac - Claims DRUNK who picked the middle card
6. teccles - Claims DOPPELGANGER who targeted MANIAC and confirms he was DRUNK
7. kgray
8. Rdrivera2005
9. Jamiet99uk
10. Chaqa

Based on Bonatogether's suggestion of claim order, which I think is eminently sensible, if there is a ROBBER in play, they should claim now, please.
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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#65 Post by kgray » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:26 am

@Jamie, you’re okay with ghug voting me?

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#66 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:37 am

kgray wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:26 am
@Jamie, you’re okay with ghug voting me?
I have no way of knowing if Ghug was being sincere about that or not, and voting is private.

I would like to hear from the Robber. I hardclaim that my original card was *not* Robber.

Once we have heard from the Robber, or if everyone else clarifies that they are *not* the Robber (as it may not even be in play), then I will reveal all the information I have.

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#67 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:41 am

Updated slightly:

1. Hamilton Brian
2. Ghug - Claims TROUBLEMAKER who switched KGRAY and JAMIET
3. lfischl
4. bona
5. Maniac - Claims DRUNK who picked the middle card
6. teccles - Claims DOPPELGANGER who targeted MANIAC and confirms he was DRUNK
7. kgray
8. Rdrivera2005
9. Jamiet99uk - Not the ROBBER
10. Chaqa

If there is a ROBBER in play, they should claim now, please. Everyone who is not the Robber, I think should also tell us that they are not the Robber.
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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#68 Post by kgray » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:47 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:37 am
kgray wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:26 am
@Jamie, you’re okay with ghug voting me?
I have no way of knowing if Ghug was being sincere about that or not, and voting is private.

I would like to hear from the Robber. I hardclaim that my original card was *not* Robber.

Once we have heard from the Robber, or if everyone else clarifies that they are *not* the Robber (as it may not even be in play), then I will reveal all the information I have.
Hmm. The first thing I thought when ghug claimed he switched us was “great, now Jamie’s clear.”

The only reason I can think of for your unwillingness to think the same about me is that you are worried ghug is lying and you started as werewolf. And if you did, here’s hoping ghug was actually lying lmao

I wasn’t the robber.

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#69 Post by teccles » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:02 pm

Updated to add my card claim and a non-robber claim:

1. Hamilton Brian
2. Ghug - Claims TROUBLEMAKER who switched KGRAY and JAMIET
3. lfischl
4. bona
5. Maniac - Claims DRUNK who picked the middle card
6. teccles - Claims DOPPELGANGER who targeted MANIAC and confirms he was DRUNK. With DRUNK power picked the middle card.
7. kgray - Not the ROBBER
8. Rdrivera2005
9. Jamiet99uk - Not the ROBBER
10. Chaqa

I agree with the calls for the robber to claim. People claiming not-robber is also good (because robber is a crappy fakeclaim anyway for werewolves)
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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#70 Post by rdrivera2005 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:06 pm

Updated to add my card claim and a non-robber claim:

1. Hamilton Brian
2. Ghug - Claims TROUBLEMAKER who switched KGRAY and JAMIET
3. lfischl
4. bona
5. Maniac - Claims DRUNK who picked the middle card
6. teccles - Claims DOPPELGANGER who targeted MANIAC and confirms he was DRUNK. With DRUNK power picked the middle card.
7. kgray - Not the ROBBER
8. Rdrivera2005 - Not ROBBER
9. Jamiet99uk - Not the ROBBER
10. Chaqa

I agree with the calls for the robber to claim. People claiming not-robber is also good (because robber is a crappy fakeclaim anyway for werewolves
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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#71 Post by Hamilton Brian » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:11 pm

Updated and all that.

1. Hamilton Brian - Not the Robber
2. Ghug - Claims TROUBLEMAKER who switched KGRAY and JAMIET
3. lfischl
4. bona
5. Maniac - Claims DRUNK who picked the middle card
6. teccles - Claims DOPPELGANGER who targeted MANIAC and confirms he was DRUNK. With DRUNK power picked the middle card.
7. kgray - Not the ROBBER
8. Rdrivera2005 - Not ROBBER
9. Jamiet99uk - Not the ROBBER
10. Chaqa
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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#72 Post by Maniac » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:14 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:24 am
Maniac wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:01 am
So at this point teccles and I would make very bad choices for a daykill.

We each start with around 15% chance of drawing a werewolf card. Now teccles and I effectively clear one another of starting with a werewolf card the other eight players have around 18% chance of being werewolf.

It's possible of course that one or two of the hidden cards were werewolf. But as each one had a 15% chance of being werewolf and I choose one/three, teccles and I are only around 5% likely to be werewolf.

There is a chance I'm the tanner (around 7%) which we'd want to avoid anyway and a remote chance I'm the minion and the remaining two hidden cards are werewolf which would be the only situation where killing me as the minion would be good for town.

If the seer happened to peak at the centre card, both teccles and I are clear. If they peaked at another card then the maths change again.
I think we can rule out you being the Tanner, because if you were the Tanner, what you're doing here would be an exceptionally bad strategy.
I wouldn't know if I was the tanner. I'm not advised what role I am.

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#73 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:19 pm

Maniac wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:14 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:24 am
Maniac wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:01 am
There is a chance I'm the tanner (around 7%) which we'd want to avoid anyway and a remote chance I'm the minion and the remaining two hidden cards are werewolf which would be the only situation where killing me as the minion would be good for town.

If the seer happened to peak at the centre card, both teccles and I are clear. If they peaked at another card then the maths change again.
I think we can rule out you being the Tanner, because if you were the Tanner, what you're doing here would be an exceptionally bad strategy.
I wouldn't know if I was the tanner. I'm not advised what role I am.
I meant if you had started as the Tanner and were lying about everything else.

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#74 Post by Maniac » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:25 pm

teccles wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:06 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:51 am
So if Teccles and Maniac are both telling the truth, they are now both the *same* role, and neither of them knows what it is. Correct?
I don't think so. I think:
1. Immediately after becoming drunk, I swapped my card with the centre card.
2. At the end, Maniac swapped with the centre card - which was now the doppelganger, acting as drunk, which is town.

So Maniac is definitely town (if his claim is true), and my role is unknown.
We need to sort this out. I thought the original player always performed the actions even if they got swapped (or looked at?) So how did the doppleganger get to switch cards with the hidden cards? I thought my switching would be replicated for the doppleganger. If not then it appears we have both swapped and both chosen the middle card. Which is great if we know who swapped first. If teccles swapped first, I'm now the doppleganger and if I swapped first teccles is now the drunk (after having the drunk role earlier)

Is this a query for GMs?

@Teccles - were you asked to pick a hidden card? If so what time did you pick that card?

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#75 Post by teccles » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:35 pm

Maniac wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:25 pm
We need to sort this out. I thought the original player always performed the actions even if they got swapped (or looked at?) So how did the doppleganger get to switch cards with the hidden cards? I thought my switching would be replicated for the doppleganger. If not then it appears we have both swapped and both chosen the middle card. Which is great if we know who swapped first. If teccles swapped first, I'm now the doppleganger and if I swapped first teccles is now the drunk (after having the drunk role earlier)

Is this a query for GMs?

@Teccles - were you asked to pick a hidden card? If so what time did you pick that card?
Yeah, the original player plays the action but so does the doppelganger. I messaged jasnah to select you, and then she messaged me saying I was the drunk and should pick a card. I picked middle.

In terms of action resolution - I checked, and a doppelganger's action happens immediately; so (assuming claims are true) I switched cards with the middle, then all the other actions happened, and then you switched cards with the middle. So you are holding the doppelganger card, and I am holding whatever card was in the middle (unless I got troublemade or robbed).

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#76 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:35 pm

Maniac wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:25 pm
teccles wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:06 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:51 am
So if Teccles and Maniac are both telling the truth, they are now both the *same* role, and neither of them knows what it is. Correct?
I don't think so. I think:
1. Immediately after becoming drunk, I swapped my card with the centre card.
2. At the end, Maniac swapped with the centre card - which was now the doppelganger, acting as drunk, which is town.

So Maniac is definitely town (if his claim is true), and my role is unknown.
We need to sort this out. I thought the original player always performed the actions even if they got swapped (or looked at?) So how did the doppleganger get to switch cards with the hidden cards? I thought my switching would be replicated for the doppleganger. If not then it appears we have both swapped and both chosen the middle card. Which is great if we know who swapped first. If teccles swapped first, I'm now the doppleganger and if I swapped first teccles is now the drunk (after having the drunk role earlier)

Is this a query for GMs?

@Teccles - were you asked to pick a hidden card? If so what time did you pick that card?
It's in the OP.

If the Doppelganger targets the Drunk, they then perform their own instance of the Drunk's action, which resolves in the DOPPLEGANGER step of the Order of adjudication, *not* in the DRUNK step of that order, which means it is an independent action that happens and is resolved *BEFORE* the original Drunk's action.

Thus it would all occur in this order, IF Teccles and yourself are both telling the truth:

1. Teccles the Doppelganger targets you.
2. Teccles the Doppelganger is told they are now the Drunk, and asked to pick one of the three hidden cards.
3. Teccles picks the middle card, and this is immediately resolved.
4. The middle hidden card is now "Doppelganger", Teccles is now the role that was previously the middle hidden card. Teccles does not know what role that was.
5. The Werewolf/Minion, Seer, Robber, and Troublemaker's actions are then resolved, in that order.
6. Finally Maniac's action as the Drunk is resolved. He takes the middle hidden card, receiving the Doppelganger card which Teccles earlier put there.

Result:
Maniac is the Doppelganger, and Teccles' current role is unknown.

IF the Seer or a solo Werewolf also looked at the middle card, they would have seen the "Doppelganger" card and not the original middle card, because all of Teccles' actions resolved before theirs.
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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#77 Post by teccles » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:38 pm

I endorse Jamie's post, which is a clearer and fuller statement of mine :-)

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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#78 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:40 pm

teccles wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:38 pm
I endorse Jamie's post, which is a clearer and fuller statement of mine :-)
That's cool. We both understood it the same way.
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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#79 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:42 pm

@Lfischl
@Bonatogether
@Chaqa

Did you start as the Robber?

If YES, please declare now, and tell us who you targeted.

If NO, please declare "No, I didn't start as the Robber".
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Re: One Night Ultimate Werewolf Minigame [Hidden]

#80 Post by Bonatogether » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:00 pm

teccles wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:59 am
I agree that the troublemaker targets should claim if they were werewolves. I think if they were tanners or minions they don't claim that; no reason to tell the person you swapped with to screw with the game.

I'm the doppelganger. I targeted Maniac, who I can confirm is a drunk. Swapped with the centre card. I'm not quite clear one when this action happened - I think it's probably either before or after Maniac's swap?

I think the next claim should be the robber. If anyone claims the robber but doesn't claim it soon, we should be very suspicious of them.
I don't see how this works with the role pm?
Doppelganger: You are the DOPPELGANGER. You win with the town. At night, you must look at one other player’s card without switching it. You become that role and receive the relevant ability.
This doesn't say anything about the 3 undrawn cards.

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