Mafia 1016: America's Past-Crime [HIDDEN]

[celaph]

I mean, same.

I think the way he backed off of his scumread of Jamie now seems kind of odd. Like the whole scumread wasn't based on much in the first place, and he was very quick to accept Jamie's defense like he knew Jamie was actually town?

Jamie's defense against me hinged on the idea that I had misinterpreted his statements. If I had properly interpreted his statements I think it is unlikely that Jamie defends himself that way as he would know the basis of his argument is lies. Additionally I think the tone of his defense felt honest, that he was genuinely annoyed that I had misunderstood him.

As such, I think that it was reasonable to conclude that I had misinterpreted Jamie whether he was scum or town. As such, I no longer saw the basis of my scumread as scum indicative, but rather NAI. It made no sense to keep my vote on him after I moved him back to null so I unvoted.

I don't know, something about this feels really weird to me. You explicitly said when you voted for him that it wasn't *just* because you didn't get his joke, and when I asked you more about your read of him you said you weren't a fan of him for reasons you commented on (I can't find any besides the joke thing?) and for reasons others commented on, but you didn't specify which those were at the time. Shortly after you did give some reasons, which seem okay to me, but they still feel secondary to the joke thing.

And when you unvoted you said you liked his defense, when his defense was mostly just "you didn't understand that I was mocking Vecna." And I'm probably tunneling at this point but you also avoided his question about giving him a reason to scumread someone besides Durga. Maybe that's just because you didn't have a stronger scumread, but it's rubbing me the wrong way.

It just feels like your scumread of him wasn't based on much, and you realized it didn't hold up, so you dropped it. Which... I guess doesn't have to be scummy actually?

Who do you scumread now?

I think your last paragraph is a decent summary of my opinion on the matter.

I'm not a particularly big fan of bozo. I think he was a better wagon than either Damo or Durga and I don't recall him saying much of note today so far.

I wouldn't say I scumread Durga, but I see no reason to townread her so far which makes her a higher priority.

If there is a pair I'm looking at it's either you+Vecna or you+Bozo. You+Vecna I think is less likely overall, but more likely with the day chat. I see good reasons to think you're both town but the interactions between you two today felt a little weird. You+Bozo because I think that the damo wagon was just as much a push to save Bozo as it was to save Durga. Again, not as high priority as some of my individual reads, but something in the back of my mind.

In terms of townreads I think darg and Jamie are both up there. Nothing obv-town from them, but they just feel towny to me.

[celaph]

Mafia Day QT
Durga: pass the cookies. I need protein.
Celaph: What? There are no proteins in cookies!
Durga: In Canada, there are. Bacon is an ingredient.
Celaph: ….
Durga: Nice answers by the way. You fooled rdrivera.
Rdrivera: what? I’m curling my hair.
Kgray: It looks nice, too! Wait… aren’t I your spokesperson? Ahem… “What? I’m curling my hair.”
Bonatogether: Did that work to get pressure off me?

The five look at each other… count on their fingers… “GHUG! HOW MANY OF US DID YOU PUT IN HERE???”

That would be a lit scum chat.

[celaph]

Celaph what are your thoughts on kgray and Durga?

The latter I don't have many thoughts on. She hasn't said or done much of note and most of the talk should be related to how people have interacted with and around her. There is nothing to really scum read her for except the entire lack of things to townread her for.

I think that kgray is acting in a pro-town way, though something feels slightly off. I don't think that Jamie's argument is entirely factually correct as she has pointed out, but I think that there is a core of truth to it. That said, maybe I'm just reacting negatively to her scumread of me which I have to think through.

Regarding their interactions I think that they are less alignment indicative than people are making out. Kgray will certainly look worse if Durga flips scum, but if this is scum kgray, then she is doing this because she thinks that town kgray would as well.

Oh I love your last point. You get townpoints for that. Do you think it's something town me would do?

Absolutely.

I feel like a lot of these town points I'm getting are because I said something you agreed with in isolation of the point I actually made.

[kgray]

So, you scumread Vecna and Bona for doing it?

No, because townies do scummy things all the time and I townread them for other reasons. But joining an existing wagon without a "good" reason is objectively scummier than starting a wagon without a "good" reason, in my opinion.

Would you care to elaborate on why you hold this opinion?

Because if you're starting a wagon then you have to get the momentum going and that draws more attention to you, right? I'm not talking about a random vote, or one that someone just makes and then abandons without it going anywhere. But actively trying to get people to move to a new wagon makes you stand out a lot more than being one of the votes that contributes to it. I think scum are less likely to do that than to join a wagon that's already gaining momentum because I think scum tend to follow.

Do you disagree?

[dargorygel]

The latter I don't have many thoughts on. She hasn't said or done much of note and most of the talk should be related to how people have interacted with and around her. There is nothing to really scum read her for except the entire lack of things to townread her for.

I think that kgray is acting in a pro-town way, though something feels slightly off. I don't think that Jamie's argument is entirely factually correct as she has pointed out, but I think that there is a core of truth to it. That said, maybe I'm just reacting negatively to her scumread of me which I have to think through.

Regarding their interactions I think that they are less alignment indicative than people are making out. Kgray will certainly look worse if Durga flips scum, but if this is scum kgray, then she is doing this because she thinks that town kgray would as well.

Oh I love your last point. You get townpoints for that. Do you think it's something town me would do?

Absolutely.

I feel like a lot of these town points I'm getting are because I said something you agreed with in isolation of the point I actually made.

I was about to write that, too... Kgray. Did you mean that they get town points for seeing things like you do. Or are those thoughts more town indicative?

[kgray]

Also, as I was looking back at how the damo wagon formed, I notice that Durga was the second vote on it, and despite not having read the game she didn't vote for her counterwagon at the time, bozo. I think this is scumpoints for bozo if Durga does flip scum.

[lfischl]

Mafia Day QT
Durga: pass the cookies. I need protein.
Celaph: What? There are no proteins in cookies!
Durga: In Canada, there are. Bacon is an ingredient.
Celaph: ….
Durga: Nice answers by the way. You fooled rdrivera.
Rdrivera: what? I’m curling my hair.
Kgray: It looks nice, too! Wait… aren’t I your spokesperson? Ahem… “What? I’m curling my hair.”
Bonatogether: Did that work to get pressure off me?

The four look at each other… count on their fingers… “GHUG! HOW MANY OF US DID YOU PUT IN HERE???”

That's 5 people darg.

[dargorygel]

Mafia Day QT
Durga: pass the cookies. I need protein.
Celaph: What? There are no proteins in cookies!
Durga: In Canada, there are. Bacon is an ingredient.
Celaph: ….
Durga: Nice answers by the way. You fooled rdrivera.
Rdrivera: what? I’m curling my hair.
Kgray: It looks nice, too! Wait… aren’t I your spokesperson? Ahem… “What? I’m curling my hair.”
Bonatogether: Did that work to get pressure off me?

The four look at each other… count on their fingers… “GHUG! HOW MANY OF US DID YOU PUT IN HERE???”

That's 5 people darg.

Lol... Yes... Did you read the whole thing?

[kgray]

I think your last paragraph is a decent summary of my opinion on the matter.

I'm not a particularly big fan of bozo. I think he was a better wagon than either Damo or Durga and I don't recall him saying much of note today so far.

I wouldn't say I scumread Durga, but I see no reason to townread her so far which makes her a higher priority.

If there is a pair I'm looking at it's either you+Vecna or you+Bozo. You+Vecna I think is less likely overall, but more likely with the day chat. I see good reasons to think you're both town but the interactions between you two today felt a little weird. You+Bozo because I think that the damo wagon was just as much a push to save Bozo as it was to save Durga. Again, not as high priority as some of my individual reads, but something in the back of my mind.

In terms of townreads I think darg and Jamie are both up there. Nothing obv-town from them, but they just feel towny to me.

I'm not a huge fan of bozo this game either, but yeah I did want to save him D1. I'm not hiding that.

Why would daychat make Vecna as my partner more likely? Our interactions actually feel very normal to me, which is one reason I'm townreading him.

[kgray]

The latter I don't have many thoughts on. She hasn't said or done much of note and most of the talk should be related to how people have interacted with and around her. There is nothing to really scum read her for except the entire lack of things to townread her for.

I think that kgray is acting in a pro-town way, though something feels slightly off. I don't think that Jamie's argument is entirely factually correct as she has pointed out, but I think that there is a core of truth to it. That said, maybe I'm just reacting negatively to her scumread of me which I have to think through.

Regarding their interactions I think that they are less alignment indicative than people are making out. Kgray will certainly look worse if Durga flips scum, but if this is scum kgray, then she is doing this because she thinks that town kgray would as well.

Oh I love your last point. You get townpoints for that. Do you think it's something town me would do?

Absolutely.

I feel like a lot of these town points I'm getting are because I said something you agreed with in isolation of the point I actually made.

Of course, I'm very self-absorbed and I want people to like me. It's what makes me so easily buddied, as you very well know.

But also, I think your point was nuanced and something that others hadn't brought up. You took it one step farther, from "kgray would do this as scum" to "kgray would do this as scum because it's something she'd do as town" and that's a significantly different observation.

[Jamiet99uk]

Mafia Day QT
Durga: pass the cookies. I need protein.
Celaph: What? There are no proteins in cookies!
Durga: In Canada, there are. Bacon is an ingredient.
Celaph: ….
Durga: Nice answers by the way. You fooled rdrivera.
Rdrivera: what? I’m curling my hair.
Kgray: It looks nice, too! Wait… aren’t I your spokesperson? Ahem… “What? I’m curling my hair.”
Bonatogether: Did that work to get pressure off me?

The four look at each other… count on their fingers… “GHUG! HOW MANY OF US DID YOU PUT IN HERE???”

That's 5 people darg.

Lol... Yes... Did you read the whole thing?

Some of the players in this game apparently find humour difficult to grasp.

[Jamiet99uk]

No, because townies do scummy things all the time and I townread them for other reasons. But joining an existing wagon without a "good" reason is objectively scummier than starting a wagon without a "good" reason, in my opinion.

Would you care to elaborate on why you hold this opinion?

Because if you're starting a wagon then you have to get the momentum going and that draws more attention to you, right? I'm not talking about a random vote, or one that someone just makes and then abandons without it going anywhere. But actively trying to get people to move to a new wagon makes you stand out a lot more than being one of the votes that contributes to it. I think scum are less likely to do that than to join a wagon that's already gaining momentum because I think scum tend to follow.

Do you disagree?

Not necessarily. I will say that sometimes newb scum start wagons on people they have a viable "reason" to scumread, but who definitely aren't likely to be daykilled, thus parking themselves in a safe place. Not that anyone relevant to the above discussion is really a "newb".

But, your explanation of your view is perfectly rational.

[kgray]

Oh I love your last point. You get townpoints for that. Do you think it's something town me would do?

Absolutely.

I feel like a lot of these town points I'm getting are because I said something you agreed with in isolation of the point I actually made.

I was about to write that, too... Kgray. Did you mean that they get town points for seeing things like you do. Or are those thoughts more town indicative?

I always give people townpoints for seeing things like I do when I'm town, but that's not what I meant here. I wasn't even thinking of the argument that he made, so it wasn't that he was mirroring my perspective. It was more that he didn't just come to the surface-level conclusion that I think scum would make.

[kgray]

I feel like a lot of these town points I'm getting are because I said something you agreed with in isolation of the point I actually made.

Also I love that you're questioning me giving you townpoints.

Do we really have to vote only in the group of 5 today? Because I don't want celaph anymore but Durga is just going to be a runaway wagon at this point.

[dargorygel]

I feel like a lot of these town points I'm getting are because I said something you agreed with in isolation of the point I actually made.

Also I love that you're questioning me giving you townpoints.

Do we really have to vote only in the group of 5 today? Because I don't want celaph anymore but Durga is just going to be a runaway wagon at this point.

What do you think about bozo? I know you've said, but I don't recall

[bozotheclown]

I'd like it if everyone would rank the 5 suspects in order.

The 5 suspects being Bona, Celaph, Durga, Kgray, Vecna.

(Look Maniac I put them in alphabetical order again)

We know there there are 1-3 scum in this group. So everyone's opinion on which of them is most likely, or least likely, to be scum, would be useful.

Durga, Bonatogether, Vecna, celaph, kgray

[bozotheclown]

Didnt he say in scumchat one of the last few games he'd prefer to be alive with you in endgame?

I think you shouldve sheeped me yesterday.

Did he? Where? Last time I was alive in the endgame I miskilled bozo and let Chaqa embarrass the shit out of me

maybe im misremembering. if so, im sure bozo will properly chastise me shortly.

I do not think I ever said that in a scum QT, the only time I ever remember arguing against NKing kgray was when I was fairly certain I would get hit with a bomb.

[kgray]

I feel like a lot of these town points I'm getting are because I said something you agreed with in isolation of the point I actually made.

Also I love that you're questioning me giving you townpoints.

Do we really have to vote only in the group of 5 today? Because I don't want celaph anymore but Durga is just going to be a runaway wagon at this point.

What do you think about bozo? I know you've said, but I don't recall

His opening post and continued discussion about the "who is online" feature felt really off to me, and very unlike bozo. Vecna's point about him having one scumread is valid, and it does look like Durga avoided him. Obviously I can't draw any real conclusion from that until Durga flips, but if she's scum then that's not a good look for bozo.

The thing that's really throwing me off is how strongly he defended my D1. That's so unlike bozo, so my instinct is that it's scummy somehow, and that he's buddying me, but I *really* don't see the point of him trying to pocket me in this situation.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'd like it if everyone would rank the 5 suspects in order.

The 5 suspects being Bona, Celaph, Durga, Kgray, Vecna.

(Look Maniac I put them in alphabetical order again)

We know there there are 1-3 scum in this group. So everyone's opinion on which of them is most likely, or least likely, to be scum, would be useful.

Durga, Bonatogether, Vecna, celaph, kgray

Thanks.

So far only you and Kgray have answered this.

You both put Durga at #1.

Durga continues to do sweet fuck all to help town. She said she'd read up and participate, and she hasn't done that.

Bye Durga.

[dargorygel]

I can try this counter wagon
##vote bonatogether