MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[ghug]

What's the value?

Vanilla are not scum.

PRs are only useful for protection/hunting.

So? Do aliens shoot into the PRs, or into the confirmable town?

Oh...and aliens only have a max of 2 kills.

And mafia are possibly done...

Goons and SKs are vanilla, no? I'm not ready to assume mafia are done.

Damo's also very likely to be one of those allen kills, and at that point the aliens will know who to target with whatever nonkilling abilities they have. Your plan probably makes sense if we're pretty close to winning already, but that's not the contingency we should be optimizing for, and the assertiveness with which you push it is annoying.

You think an SK is here?

What other use does Damo's ability have? Damo the player has a use, but his only use as PR is to get us a massive amount of non-alien claims.

The doctors can clearly protect him forever. And aliens only have 1 nk they won't waste on him.

In addition, getting this claims gives our *hidden* conspiracy theorists a better place to search.

So tell me more clearly: what are you worried about here? Because I see very little downside. Most of us are probably not-vanilla anyways.

Lord knows emc isn't (zing!)

I'm worried that if Macca has teammates, they could easily be well hidden, and then we're painting targets on our PRs.

[kgray]

can we keep macca alive and just have him shoot ghug and anyone else anti town

No u

Look brain, I'm probably being rudely dismissive, and I'm sorry for that, but I really thought we had a new, better brain a couple games ago, and now we're back to you blowing games as scum and sucking all the air out of the thread with irrational and sometimes impossible theories as (presumed) town, and it's frustrating

What he hasn't done that at all??

[BunnyGo]

@Macca: who have you been trying to kill lately?

No-one else seems to want this info, yet you've asked 3 times. Why?

Bob wanted it too.

And as for why I want it...I want to know how awesome the doctors are. They deserve a big round of applause. It's also fairly minor information to share, so I didn't think you'd mind.

[celaph]

I dislike that you're trying to force this.

I dislike that you don't appreciate the aliens are the threat. And we need our conspiracy theorists and damo to scan fast and often.

Are they though? They can only kill one of us.

I'mma bought to do my best Chaqa impression and 1v17.

[kgray]

@Macca: who have you been trying to kill lately?

No-one else seems to want this info, yet you've asked 3 times. Why?

Bob wanted it too.

And as for why I want it...I want to know how awesome the doctors are. They deserve a big round of applause. It's also fairly minor information to share, so I didn't think you'd mind.

Bunny is obsessed with finding our docs.

[kgray]

I dislike that you don't appreciate the aliens are the threat. And we need our conspiracy theorists and damo to scan fast and often.

Are they though? They can only kill one of us.

I'mma bought to do my best Chaqa impression and 1v17.

Don't aspire to be like Chaqa, it's beneath you

[ghug]

No u

Look brain, I'm probably being rudely dismissive, and I'm sorry for that, but I really thought we had a new, better brain a couple games ago, and now we're back to you blowing games as scum and sucking all the air out of the thread with irrational and sometimes impossible theories as (presumed) town, and it's frustrating

What he hasn't done that at all??

Pages upon pages of his ridiculous "there's no mafia and the aliens killed bozo N1 because they were hunting for the SK and they're these three people who made some vaguely similar posts around that time" theory don't qualify as that to you?

[ghug]

@Macca: who have you been trying to kill lately?

No-one else seems to want this info, yet you've asked 3 times. Why?

Bob wanted it too.

And as for why I want it...I want to know how awesome the doctors are. They deserve a big round of applause. It's also fairly minor information to share, so I didn't think you'd mind.

I want this information as well.

[kgray]

Look brain, I'm probably being rudely dismissive, and I'm sorry for that, but I really thought we had a new, better brain a couple games ago, and now we're back to you blowing games as scum and sucking all the air out of the thread with irrational and sometimes impossible theories as (presumed) town, and it's frustrating

What he hasn't done that at all??

Pages upon pages of his ridiculous "there's no mafia and the aliens killed bozo N1 because they were hunting for the SK and they're these three people who made some vaguely similar posts around that time" theory don't qualify as that to you?

I don't think it was pages and pages and I don't think he was sucking the air out of the thread, no. You're being rudely dismissive.

[BunnyGo]

Goons and SKs are vanilla, no? I'm not ready to assume mafia are done.

Damo's also very likely to be one of those allen kills, and at that point the aliens will know who to target with whatever nonkilling abilities they have. Your plan probably makes sense if we're pretty close to winning already, but that's not the contingency we should be optimizing for, and the assertiveness with which you push it is annoying.

You think an SK is here?

What other use does Damo's ability have? Damo the player has a use, but his only use as PR is to get us a massive amount of non-alien claims.

The doctors can clearly protect him forever. And aliens only have 1 nk they won't waste on him.

In addition, getting this claims gives our *hidden* conspiracy theorists a better place to search.

So tell me more clearly: what are you worried about here? Because I see very little downside. Most of us are probably not-vanilla anyways.

Lord knows emc isn't (zing!)

I'm worried that if Macca has teammates, they could easily be well hidden, and then we're painting targets on our PRs.

Fair concerns.

Well hidden mafia: Also probably not vanilla. most goons were pitched, and unless someone was offered goon and goon or goon and VT, they probably didn't take it.

Targets on PRs: for whom?! The mafia? Great! They can shoot aliens too. All the aliens are hidden there.

If there are no more mafia: great! The aliens can kill twice, and we then have massive town clears.

What's the downside to not doing this now? Damo dies before he can scan for us. His scans are best used as confirming the vanilla claims.

[kgray]

@celaph did you really discard a goon?

[ghug]

What he hasn't done that at all??

Pages upon pages of his ridiculous "there's no mafia and the aliens killed bozo N1 because they were hunting for the SK and they're these three people who made some vaguely similar posts around that time" theory don't qualify as that to you?

I don't think it was pages and pages and I don't think he was sucking the air out of the thread, no. You're being rudely dismissive.

I can acknowledge that my disposition has been grumpy all game, and I can acknowledge that I'm especially sensitive to brain doing this because he's done it much worse and more vitriolic in the past, but it was pages and pages, it does make it hard for at least me to focus on much else while he's going off, and it absolutely warrants strong dismissal, because it has no merit.

[BunnyGo]

Look brain, I'm probably being rudely dismissive, and I'm sorry for that, but I really thought we had a new, better brain a couple games ago, and now we're back to you blowing games as scum and sucking all the air out of the thread with irrational and sometimes impossible theories as (presumed) town, and it's frustrating

What he hasn't done that at all??

Pages upon pages of his ridiculous "there's no mafia and the aliens killed bozo N1 because they were hunting for the SK and they're these three people who made some vaguely similar posts around that time" theory don't qualify as that to you?

Ghug, why do you think there are lots of mafia?

I went too far down that rabbit hole, yes. But the statement:

There are not more than three mafia.

Is simple, and almost certainly true.

The statements:

Getting town to not stall hunting the aliens is easiest with lots of clears.

Damo can clear vanillas of being aliens.

Are also simple and true.

[kgray]

Targets on PRs: for whom?! The mafia? Great! They can shoot aliens too. All the aliens are hidden there.

Are you really saying it's pro-town to out all the PRs so maf will target one of them just so they might hit aliens?

[kgray]

Pages upon pages of his ridiculous "there's no mafia and the aliens killed bozo N1 because they were hunting for the SK and they're these three people who made some vaguely similar posts around that time" theory don't qualify as that to you?

I don't think it was pages and pages and I don't think he was sucking the air out of the thread, no. You're being rudely dismissive.

I can acknowledge that my disposition has been grumpy all game, and I can acknowledge that I'm especially sensitive to brain doing this because he's done it much worse and more vitriolic in the past, but it was pages and pages, it does make it hard for at least me to focus on much else while he's going off, and it absolutely warrants strong dismissal, because it has no merit.

Okay I'm not going to argue with you about this. But you should be less grumpy now, the game is fun again!

[celaph]

@celaph did you really discard a goon?

Yeah

[ghug]

You think an SK is here?

What other use does Damo's ability have? Damo the player has a use, but his only use as PR is to get us a massive amount of non-alien claims.

The doctors can clearly protect him forever. And aliens only have 1 nk they won't waste on him.

In addition, getting this claims gives our *hidden* conspiracy theorists a better place to search.

So tell me more clearly: what are you worried about here? Because I see very little downside. Most of us are probably not-vanilla anyways.

Lord knows emc isn't (zing!)

I'm worried that if Macca has teammates, they could easily be well hidden, and then we're painting targets on our PRs.

Fair concerns.

Well hidden mafia: Also probably not vanilla. most goons were pitched, and unless someone was offered goon and goon or goon and VT, they probably didn't take it.

Targets on PRs: for whom?! The mafia? Great! They can shoot aliens too. All the aliens are hidden there.

If there are no more mafia: great! The aliens can kill twice, and we then have massive town clears.

What's the downside to not doing this now? Damo dies before he can scan for us. His scans are best used as confirming the vanilla claims.

I think it's entirely reasonable for someone to take goon over a town PR if they specifically want to play mafia, so I don't buy the confidence that we don't have goons.

Is the mafia hitting aliens worth the mafia hitting our PRs? Probably not. We likely have more PRs with actions than mafia has actions, so the odds favor us if everyone's hitting vanilla decoys at similar rates, and strongly don't favor us if the town PRs can't rule out anyone but themselves from the non-vanilla pool and the scrumteams can rule out all of their members.

All of the benefits you list are still benefits later, except for damo, who can reveal the results of the same scans whether we make these claims or not. There's a small benefit to making people claim before they know if they've been scanned, but I don't think that's worth the downsides.

[ghug]

I don't think it was pages and pages and I don't think he was sucking the air out of the thread, no. You're being rudely dismissive.

I can acknowledge that my disposition has been grumpy all game, and I can acknowledge that I'm especially sensitive to brain doing this because he's done it much worse and more vitriolic in the past, but it was pages and pages, it does make it hard for at least me to focus on much else while he's going off, and it absolutely warrants strong dismissal, because it has no merit.

Okay I'm not going to argue with you about this. But you should be less grumpy now, the game is fun again!

I'm semi-clear. That's no fun

[BunnyGo]

Targets on PRs: for whom?! The mafia? Great! They can shoot aliens too. All the aliens are hidden there.

Are you really saying it's pro-town to out all the PRs so maf will target one of them just so they might hit aliens?

I'm saying it's pro-town to get as many town cleared vanillas as possible.

In addition, the PRs have a higher percentage of aliens for mafia to hit than shooting into the population at large, while also maintaining our town cleared players.

At this stage in the game, vanilla may be better than PR for solving purposes. I think only Cop, Vanilla cop, Conspiracy Theorists are tier 1 (maybe louds too and inno child). Doctors, and parrot (since it can get someone to kill themselves, or give doctors 2 saves a night), are tier 2. Every other PR? Expendable to increase our town clear pool.

[kgray]

I can acknowledge that my disposition has been grumpy all game, and I can acknowledge that I'm especially sensitive to brain doing this because he's done it much worse and more vitriolic in the past, but it was pages and pages, it does make it hard for at least me to focus on much else while he's going off, and it absolutely warrants strong dismissal, because it has no merit.

Okay I'm not going to argue with you about this. But you should be less grumpy now, the game is fun again!

I'm semi-clear. That's no fun

Will it help if I scumread you? I'll lead your wagon tomorrow if you want.