MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

Are you stuck on the us thing too?

Dude that's pretty fucking bad.

I don't believe you believe this.

I don't believe he does either.

[ghug]

Are you going to share with the class?

You saw it.

Now I feel like you're trying to slip....

How would that work?

[kgray]

You saw it.

Now I feel like you're trying to slip....

How would that work?

Because he's using the assumption that I had, right? That HR was supposed to be signaling to his team, which would be your "us" if you were really an alien and slipped.

[Bonatogether]

Keep doing you bona. You're probably better off ignoring them when you get asked dumb, accusatory questions.

But town should always be explaining why they're doing things?

[kgray]

Now I feel like you're trying to slip....

How would that work?

Because he's using the assumption that I had, right? That HR was supposed to be signaling to his team, which would be your "us" if you were really an alien and slipped.

And HR wasn't the person who would have known Macca's alignment.

[ghug]

Now I feel like you're trying to slip....

How would that work?

Because he's using the assumption that I had, right? That HR was supposed to be signaling to his team, which would be your "us" if you were really an alien and slipped.

I actually believe you slipped, but that's in part because that's such a weird reading of what I said that I don't expect someone to be able to pretend to think it.

I think it's more likely he's reaction testing.

[BunnyGo]

1) As you say

2) The point is that you had predetermined goals. Not that they were all correct. You reads are not all correct.

3) I'm saying I overstated the issue.

2) I'd be surprised if they were, since it's a different approach to take, but I think it's decently (>60%) accurate.

3) Ok.

Ok, lets learn to recognize scum motivations. Scum like to put out reads lists just like town. The problem is, they know their teammates. They know who they're actively bussing. They know who they want to cozy up to. Etc. Etc.

So if a reads list looks like the reads don't match the logic. If someone says "Solvy is an SK trait" and then "kgray looks solvy...TOWN!" It seems like you have predetermined answers wrapped in the veneer of solving.

So, it isn't a statement that you know everything. It isn't a statement that all the reads are correct. It's a statement that it looks scummy from a reader's POV because it looks like your conclusions don't match your own personal stated logic. Like you tried to shoehorn the results in to your work.

If you see someone putting out lots of work like that, it's a decent way to spo a scum. If their reads seem to be too solid and consistent, they're having trouble being a "confused town". If their conclusions don't match their actions and reasoning, they're having trouble coming up with reasons for their desired pushes.

That's where my point 2 is coming from.

[Bonatogether]

1) As you say

2) The point is that you had predetermined goals. Not that they were all correct. You reads are not all correct.

3) I'm saying I overstated the issue.

2) I'd be surprised if they were, since it's a different approach to take, but I think it's decently (>60%) accurate.

3) Ok.

Ok, lets learn to recognize scum motivations. Scum like to put out reads lists just like town. The problem is, they know their teammates. They know who they're actively bussing. They know who they want to cozy up to. Etc. Etc.

So if a reads list looks like the reads don't match the logic. If someone says "Solvy is an SK trait" and then "kgray looks solvy...TOWN!" It seems like you have predetermined answers wrapped in the veneer of solving.

So, it isn't a statement that you know everything. It isn't a statement that all the reads are correct. It's a statement that it looks scummy from a reader's POV because it looks like your conclusions don't match your own personal stated logic. Like you tried to shoehorn the results in to your work.

If you see someone putting out lots of work like that, it's a decent way to spo a scum. If their reads seem to be too solid and consistent, they're having trouble being a "confused town". If their conclusions don't match their actions and reasoning, they're having trouble coming up with reasons for their desired pushes.

That's where my point 2 is coming from.

Oh. I get this. That makes sense. I'll look back over it.

[Bonatogether]

I'll note I put sk as the second most likely role for kgray in my post :)

[kgray]

So if a reads list looks like the reads don't match the logic. If someone says "Solvy is an SK trait" and then "kgray looks solvy...TOWN!" It seems like you have predetermined answers wrapped in the veneer of solving.

Not the best example, because the obvious conclusion is that I look TOWN! no matter what he thinks the SK would do.

[BunnyGo]

2) I'd be surprised if they were, since it's a different approach to take, but I think it's decently (>60%) accurate.

3) Ok.

Ok, lets learn to recognize scum motivations. Scum like to put out reads lists just like town. The problem is, they know their teammates. They know who they're actively bussing. They know who they want to cozy up to. Etc. Etc.

So if a reads list looks like the reads don't match the logic. If someone says "Solvy is an SK trait" and then "kgray looks solvy...TOWN!" It seems like you have predetermined answers wrapped in the veneer of solving.

So, it isn't a statement that you know everything. It isn't a statement that all the reads are correct. It's a statement that it looks scummy from a reader's POV because it looks like your conclusions don't match your own personal stated logic. Like you tried to shoehorn the results in to your work.

If you see someone putting out lots of work like that, it's a decent way to spo a scum. If their reads seem to be too solid and consistent, they're having trouble being a "confused town". If their conclusions don't match their actions and reasoning, they're having trouble coming up with reasons for their desired pushes.

That's where my point 2 is coming from.

Oh. I get this. That makes sense. I'll look back over it.

We'll make a dangerous spy out of you yet.

[BunnyGo]

So if a reads list looks like the reads don't match the logic. If someone says "Solvy is an SK trait" and then "kgray looks solvy...TOWN!" It seems like you have predetermined answers wrapped in the veneer of solving.

Not the best example, because the obvious conclusion is that I look TOWN! no matter what he thinks the SK would do.

Yes professor.

[Bonatogether]

My post wasn't really meant to solve the game, but more to rule out different alignments for players or to put them in boxes so that it'd be easier to figure out what they were doing in a certain play, since they couldn't be one or two other alignments.

[Bonatogether]

We'll make a dangerous spy out of you yet.

What if...I was a dangerous spy all along spoofing you???

[BunnyGo]

We'll make a dangerous spy out of you yet.

What if...I was a dangerous spy all along spoofing you???

Top five favorite spies of all time...go!

[Bonatogether]

We'll make a dangerous spy out of you yet.

What if...I was a dangerous spy all along spoofing you???

Top five favorite spies of all time...go!

James Bond is fun, that one from "the spy who came in from the cold" is interesting, Kim Philby was interesting, and I don't know many others

[BunnyGo]

What if...I was a dangerous spy all along spoofing you???

Top five favorite spies of all time...go!

James Bond is fun, that one from "the spy who came in from the cold" is interesting, Kim Philby was interesting, and I don't know many others

Solid choices. Check out:

Agent Garbo, David Strangeways, Christopher Lee, Virginia Hall, Witold Pilecki (all WWII era) Great stories all of them. Garbo was probably the best liar. Just straight up could lie about anything and convince you that coffee is blue. Strangeways was the mech: understood connections, implications, and strange valuations that paid off later. Pilecki and Hall were just brave as anything. And Lee...well it's Christopher Lee.

[Bonatogether]

Top five favorite spies of all time...go!

James Bond is fun, that one from "the spy who came in from the cold" is interesting, Kim Philby was interesting, and I don't know many others

Solid choices. Check out:

Agent Garbo, David Strangeways, Christopher Lee, Virginia Hall, Witold Pilecki (all WWII era) Great stories all of them. Garbo was probably the best liar. Just straight up could lie about anything and convince you that coffee is blue. Strangeways was the mech: understood connections, implications, and strange valuations that paid off later. Pilecki and Hall were just brave as anything. And Lee...well it's Christopher Lee.

Oh I remember Garbo! He was that Spanish chicken farmer guy, wasn't he? Didn't he convince the Germans that he had a huge spyring in England but he was actually in Portugal for most of it?

[BobMcBob]

Targeting Macca for a RB with the idea that HR was going to get off? Why put HR in this position at all? I don't see a comfortable and experienced scum team here. I see either a scum team that feels cornered or one that is inexperienced.

HR is very experienced so this argument makes no sense unless you think he just sat quietly and didn't post in their QT, and this also sounds exactly like an argument you made in M54 to shade me when I was a new player. Hate it.

I get HR is experienced. Great.

Tell me why he collapsed like he did EOD2. I still don't understand it, and I've reread that EOD twice now. I have no idea what happened. The only theory I can come up with is that the aliens are panicking and swinging away.

I would be very surprised if there isn't at least one of Maniac, Ezio, Vecna, Ghug and perhaps you on the alien team. Those are all experienced players, and all of them are somewhat scummy (some moreso than others). I highly doubt the alien team is lacking in experience.

[BunnyGo]

James Bond is fun, that one from "the spy who came in from the cold" is interesting, Kim Philby was interesting, and I don't know many others

Solid choices. Check out:

Agent Garbo, David Strangeways, Christopher Lee, Virginia Hall, Witold Pilecki (all WWII era) Great stories all of them. Garbo was probably the best liar. Just straight up could lie about anything and convince you that coffee is blue. Strangeways was the mech: understood connections, implications, and strange valuations that paid off later. Pilecki and Hall were just brave as anything. And Lee...well it's Christopher Lee.

Oh I remember Garbo! He was that Spanish chicken farmer guy, wasn't he? Didn't he convince the Germans that he had a huge spyring in England but he was actually in Portugal for most of it?

Yeah, told the Germans the British drank coffee and wine. And somehow the Germans bought it and decided he had a network of over 20 agents in England. All while hanging out in Lisbon and paying a pilot to take his letters from Lisbon to post them from England back to Lisbon.

Strangeways did weird stuff. When Garbo would tell a lie about a unit of tanks in a region, then Strangeways would go in with tracks and make the lie look real. He also was fanatical, fought his way into German occupied Tunis before the Allies did so that he could steal the codebooks.

Pilecki volunteered to be captured and sent to Auschwitz. So that he could form a network of resistance and intelligence gathering inside.