MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[BobMcBob]

This might be true, but I know one of these is definitely town and it's not Macca.

Strange, because I have the opposite opinion.

What's your opinion of my scumread of you from D2? I think it still applies here and is a much better reason to scumread you than anything related to HR.

Macca hasn't seriously dug into any of the things that they have been commenting on. They've asked some decent questions and posted immediate reactions to what's happening, but it hasn't really manifested itself as decent reads. The one reads list they have posted has been rather superficial and mirrored existing sentiments heavily.

This case is so weak it's about on the level of bunny's tinfoil theory scumread, if not worse. This feels like a scum trying their best to get a counterwagon going with some strength, because he knows he's almost certainly screwed otherwise.

[rdrivera2005]

Are you one of HR's teammates? What does this mean?

I do not understand what is difficult to understand about this. Is it the pronouns?

No, it's not the pronouns. I thought you were saying HR would signal to his team what Macca's alignment was but you said "us" instead of "them."

The problem with this is HR didn't have anything to signal, he wasn't the Prober. The Prober might have signaled to HR, but I can't see it.

[rdrivera2005]

Revised reads, part 4

Reasoning is basically my stuff from part 1 mushed together with bunny's thoughts. I can give a more exact reasoning for anyone if you ask

One "less than" symbol is saying "a bit less than", two is "a fair bit less than", and three is "something's really fucked up if they're this role."

bob - town > sk > mafia >>> alien
brain - town >>> mafia = sk >>> alien
bungo - mafia > alien >> town >>> sk
celaph - alien > mafia >>> town > sk
damo - town = mafia >> alien >>> sk
donny - town = mafia > alien >>> sk
emc - town > sk >>> mafia = alien
ezio - alien > mafia >> town >>> sk
ghug - alien = mafia > town >>> sk
hb - town >> alien >>> mafia = sk
kgray - town > sk >> mafia >>> alien
macca - alien > mafia >> town >>> sk
maniac - not sure
rdr - alien > mafia >> town >>> sk

Bona, care to explain why you think I am a likely Alien after pushing hard HR since N1?

[celaph]

Strange, because I have the opposite opinion.

What's your opinion of my scumread of you from D2? I think it still applies here and is a much better reason to scumread you than anything related to HR.

Macca hasn't seriously dug into any of the things that they have been commenting on. They've asked some decent questions and posted immediate reactions to what's happening, but it hasn't really manifested itself as decent reads. The one reads list they have posted has been rather superficial and mirrored existing sentiments heavily.

This case is so weak it's about on the level of bunny's tinfoil theory scumread, if not worse. This feels like a scum trying their best to get a counterwagon going with some strength, because he knows he's almost certainly screwed otherwise.

Please elaborate on why you think my argument is so weak. Show me where they have engaged meaningfully in the conversation and made deep, insightful pro-town comments.

[damo666]

Why did HR claim Jailer AFTER Macca claimed RBd?

Wouldn't claiming Jailer first and then Macca claiming RBd be much more convincing?

Maybe HR got lucky and Mafia underdog RBd Macca.

Either way it looks good for Macca.

I think the theory Macca is HR alien scummate can be dismissed.

[BobMcBob]

What's your opinion of my scumread of you from D2? I think it still applies here and is a much better reason to scumread you than anything related to HR.

This case is so weak it's about on the level of bunny's tinfoil theory scumread, if not worse. This feels like a scum trying their best to get a counterwagon going with some strength, because he knows he's almost certainly screwed otherwise.

Please elaborate on why you think my argument is so weak. Show me where they have engaged meaningfully in the conversation and made deep, insightful pro-town comments.

Oh boy a relatively new player who is yet to really find their feet in mafia and regularly gets confused hasn't made any deep, insightful comments indicating that they have utilised their experience with the game to the benefit of town. Um, what was your case again? Macca isn't exactly the towniest person ever, but lack of towniness doesn't mean scumminess, especially in this case.

[BunnyGo]

Why did HR claim Jailer AFTER Macca claimed RBd?

Wouldn't claiming Jailer first and then Macca claiming RBd be much more convincing?

Maybe HR got lucky and Mafia underdog RBd Macca.

Either way it looks good for Macca.

I think the theory Macca is HR alien scummate can be dismissed.

That's not the theory. But changing topic a little:

Can you figure out why mafia would attack you? I've thought about why I think they shouldn't be a little?

There are 0-3 mafia. Probably all powered.

There are probably more aliens.

There are definitely more town PRs.

So you're effectively hunting aliens and Town PRs much more than you're hunting mafia.

Shouldn't the mafia be shooting into the other known PRs? Like, why wasn't I shot at? Why wasn't Hamilton?

On top of that, if the "towncore" really are town, why not break them up?

You, damo, seem like the worst shot for mafia both in terms of powers and in terms of leading the hunt.

Thoughts?

[brainbomb]

Telling everyone you want to be nightkilled... now that's WIFOM.

Look, I agree with you that brain's town, but it's also clear that he's ruffled enough feathers and hasn't claimed assertively enough for him to be the likeliest of nightkills, and applying your general template for optimal play by alignment is missing the fact that he's brainbomb, which changes things, just as there's mechanical info that should be informing your reads on me and Macca.

I continue to think you're just really eager town, but you really need to step back and consider if there are better ways to be useful than applying shoddy rubrics to everyone with little care.

The whole roleblock thing seems weird to me regarding macca and you, but it doesn't clear or incriminate either of you. You could be mafia, but someone else did the n1 kill, and macca could be unlucky town (or maybe the fact that damo claimed docsave means the macca rb means nothing). Again, I'm not trying to solve or make a big reads list here, but to rule out certain alignments for players. I agree that brain being brain screws with it somewhat, but I still think something can be figured out from it.

You think I could be doing this good of a job pretending to be town?

okay, I will take it as a compliment after playing what was the worst scum performance in 5 years

[damo666]

Why did HR claim Jailer AFTER Macca claimed RBd?

Wouldn't claiming Jailer first and then Macca claiming RBd be much more convincing?

Maybe HR got lucky and Mafia underdog RBd Macca.

Either way it looks good for Macca.

I think the theory Macca is HR alien scummate can be dismissed.

That's not the theory. But changing topic a little:
But it is a theory which I believe can be dismissed.

Can you figure out why mafia would attack you? I've thought about why I think they shouldn't be a little? Eh?

There are 0-3 mafia. Yes, doubt 3 though. Probably all powered. Yes.

There are probably more aliens. Almost certainly

There are definitely more town PRs. More than what? More than combined scum? Not so sure.

So you're effectively hunting aliens and Town PRs much more than you're hunting mafia. Yes, or flip side hunting vanilla which are much more likely town so as to be quasi townclear.


Shouldn't the mafia be shooting into the other known PRs? Like, why wasn't I shot at? Why wasn't Hamilton? Because they thought doc wouldn't save me?

On top of that, if the "towncore" really are town, why not break them up? I am not towncore?

You, damo, seem like the worst shot for mafia both in terms of powers and in terms of leading the hunt. The clearest town PR unlikely to be saved I guess.

Thoughts?

[brainbomb]

damo should be dead tonight or tomorrow if by some strange circumstance he isnt then we can actually worry about if he was lying. hes solid town and moreover damo wasnt even scummy this game. plus HR pretty much spews damo as non alien after how much he blamed damo for the near tie d1

[rdrivera2005]

Why did HR claim Jailer AFTER Macca claimed RBd?

Wouldn't claiming Jailer first and then Macca claiming RBd be much more convincing?

Maybe HR got lucky and Mafia underdog RBd Macca.

Either way it looks good for Macca.

I think the theory Macca is HR alien scummate can be dismissed.

That's not the theory. But changing topic a little:

Can you figure out why mafia would attack you? I've thought about why I think they shouldn't be a little?

There are 0-3 mafia. Probably all powered.

There are probably more aliens.

There are definitely more town PRs.

So you're effectively hunting aliens and Town PRs much more than you're hunting mafia.

Shouldn't the mafia be shooting into the other known PRs? Like, why wasn't I shot at? Why wasn't Hamilton?

On top of that, if the "towncore" really are town, why not break them up?

You, damo, seem like the worst shot for mafia both in terms of powers and in terms of leading the hunt.

Thoughts?

I see a reason for Mafia to target Damo, he is a townclear that can expose anyone that claims VT (and this game will probably get to a massclaim sooner or later). I don't get why they tried the NK last night, when he is an obvious Doc target. This makes me think Strongman not in play and a Mafia team not that experienced.

I don't see much of a reason for Alien to target Bunny with his only chance to NK, specially considering he was an obvious doc target. I can't see HR agreeing to use their only NK on Damo on N2.

[BunnyGo]

Why did HR claim Jailer AFTER Macca claimed RBd?

Wouldn't claiming Jailer first and then Macca claiming RBd be much more convincing?

Maybe HR got lucky and Mafia underdog RBd Macca.

Either way it looks good for Macca.

I think the theory Macca is HR alien scummate can be dismissed.

That's not the theory. But changing topic a little:

Can you figure out why mafia would attack you? I've thought about why I think they shouldn't be a little?

There are 0-3 mafia. Probably all powered.

There are probably more aliens.

There are definitely more town PRs.

So you're effectively hunting aliens and Town PRs much more than you're hunting mafia.

Shouldn't the mafia be shooting into the other known PRs? Like, why wasn't I shot at? Why wasn't Hamilton?

On top of that, if the "towncore" really are town, why not break them up?

You, damo, seem like the worst shot for mafia both in terms of powers and in terms of leading the hunt.

Thoughts?

I see a reason for Mafia to target Damo, he is a townclear that can expose anyone that claims VT (and this game will probably get to a massclaim sooner or later). I don't get why they tried the NK last night, when he is an obvious Doc target. This makes me think Strongman not in play and a Mafia team not that experienced.

I don't see much of a reason for Alien to target Bunny with his only chance to NK, specially considering he was an obvious doc target. I can't see HR agreeing to use their only NK on Damo on N2.

rdr gets me...maybe it's the fact we both live near the beach.

[BunnyGo]

That's not the theory. But changing topic a little:

Can you figure out why mafia would attack you? I've thought about why I think they shouldn't be a little?

There are 0-3 mafia. Probably all powered.

There are probably more aliens.

There are definitely more town PRs.

So you're effectively hunting aliens and Town PRs much more than you're hunting mafia.

Shouldn't the mafia be shooting into the other known PRs? Like, why wasn't I shot at? Why wasn't Hamilton?

On top of that, if the "towncore" really are town, why not break them up?

You, damo, seem like the worst shot for mafia both in terms of powers and in terms of leading the hunt.

Thoughts?

I see a reason for Mafia to target Damo, he is a townclear that can expose anyone that claims VT (and this game will probably get to a massclaim sooner or later). I don't get why they tried the NK last night, when he is an obvious Doc target. This makes me think Strongman not in play and a Mafia team not that experienced.

I don't see much of a reason for Alien to target Bunny with his only chance to NK, specially considering he was an obvious doc target. I can't see HR agreeing to use their only NK on Damo on N2.

rdr gets me...maybe it's the fact we both live near the beach.

Even when he comes to a different conclusion...it's a sane process.

[brainbomb]

if the alien squad actually thinks celaph is mafia do we think they would want to keep mafia alive for the promise of essential nightkills?

[brainbomb]

HR was always a subscriber to the unholy alliance theory that the way to combat majority and town clears is to simply not do actual scumhunting. dont bus and dont put down threatening votes on people you think are scum. its really impossible without a daychat to coordinate it and it also requires groupthink so I cant say day 1 it was in play but are there any assumptions that celaph was not an alien but rather that hes maf?

[Bonatogether]

A common misconception but highly inaccurate. Town needs to make sure other town have the best chance of finding the scum. That is it. Everything else is fabricated.

Sometimes/frequently it's correct to overexplain as town, so if you make a mistake others can correct you and lead you on the correct path. At other times, you will lead others down the correct path.

If what you say/are thinking is correct but will not convince others, and gives mafia insight to what your plans are, it can absolutely be correct so keep it silent.

Furthermore, if you are getting sidetracked/distracted by trying to explain yourself all the time, you might find it better off just focusing on what you're doing. Do whatever you gotta do to help town the most.

For example: if you are doing something explicitly to see how other people react, you should probably not tell ppl that. You are keeping a secret from the rest of the town about your thought process (you should probably clue them in at some point).

@ghug
@bob
@kgray

Hmm. That's interesting, but I don't see why information (that's not scans or clears or whatnot) should be sat on for more than a few days at most.

[Bonatogether]

Revised reads, part 4

Reasoning is basically my stuff from part 1 mushed together with bunny's thoughts. I can give a more exact reasoning for anyone if you ask

One "less than" symbol is saying "a bit less than", two is "a fair bit less than", and three is "something's really fucked up if they're this role."

bob - town > sk > mafia >>> alien
brain - town >>> mafia = sk >>> alien
bungo - mafia > alien >> town >>> sk
celaph - alien > mafia >>> town > sk
damo - town = mafia >> alien >>> sk
donny - town = mafia > alien >>> sk
emc - town > sk >>> mafia = alien
ezio - alien > mafia >> town >>> sk
ghug - alien = mafia > town >>> sk
hb - town >> alien >>> mafia = sk
kgray - town > sk >> mafia >>> alien
macca - alien > mafia >> town >>> sk
maniac - not sure
rdr - alien > mafia >> town >>> sk

Bona, care to explain why you think I am a likely Alien after pushing hard HR since N1?

Again, the point of the whole thing is to eliminate possible factions. I do think that alien is most likely for you (aliens can bus too), but I could see mafia as well, and town isn't impossible either. Sk is, though.

[Bonatogether]

Telling everyone you want to be nightkilled... now that's WIFOM.

Look, I agree with you that brain's town, but it's also clear that he's ruffled enough feathers and hasn't claimed assertively enough for him to be the likeliest of nightkills, and applying your general template for optimal play by alignment is missing the fact that he's brainbomb, which changes things, just as there's mechanical info that should be informing your reads on me and Macca.

I continue to think you're just really eager town, but you really need to step back and consider if there are better ways to be useful than applying shoddy rubrics to everyone with little care.

The whole roleblock thing seems weird to me regarding macca and you, but it doesn't clear or incriminate either of you. You could be mafia, but someone else did the n1 kill, and macca could be unlucky town (or maybe the fact that damo claimed docsave means the macca rb means nothing). Again, I'm not trying to solve or make a big reads list here, but to rule out certain alignments for players. I agree that brain being brain screws with it somewhat, but I still think something can be figured out from it.

You think I could be doing this good of a job pretending to be town?

okay, I will take it as a compliment after playing what was the worst scum performance in 5 years

Yeah

Ok

[Bonatogether]

obvscum

[brainbomb]

Tramadol sounds like a dwarven warrior