MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[BobMcBob]

What makes you think that?

Hi Donny! Can you make some posts that are substantial, not parroting and not asking shallow questions? Thanks!

I did not like ghug's post at all as it could be used by scum ghug to earn credit if hr is town by claiming a vague feeling.

If HR is town he deserves to die anyway, and honestly we kinda deserve to lose. Looking forward to some substance from you

[ghug]

I mean, HR is going to flip scum. I'll never play again if he's town here. So I don't find him questionable.

I have this weird gut feeling that he's town and I hate it.

What makes you think that?

I guess if I had to put words to it, it's the same thing that made me think he was town when he claimed my role a few games ago. I can't see a reason for it as any alignment, and town HR cares less about dying for a good cause.

This is so much more blatantly anti-town than that though, so I'm not inclined to trust my gut.

[BobMcBob]

Is the downside seriously that ya'll are fucking crazy and dk me or it? Is that the actual universe we're living in? If so, congrats.

Instead, I think we're living in the world where the ppl on my wagon look like absolute shite and will therefore be scumread for it. The people elsewhere look fine.

Gee whiz, my obnoxious fake claim which was unlikely to benefit town in any way and caused massive chaos is really townie, every single person on my wagon is like almost definitely scum and everyone else is town!

Do you actually believe this was unliikely to benefit town in any way? What of every other world where it works fucking great.
What way does it ever hurt town worse than it has in this fucking game?

Point me to at least three people on the player list who, if doctor, wouldn't CC. We are living in by far the most likely world here, and I don't see how you could miss that.

[Ezio]

Gee whiz, my obnoxious fake claim which was unlikely to benefit town in any way and caused massive chaos is really townie, every single person on my wagon is like almost definitely scum and everyone else is town!

Do you actually believe this was unliikely to benefit town in any way? What of every other world where it works fucking great.
What way does it ever hurt town worse than it has in this fucking game?

Point me to at least three people on the player list who, if doctor, wouldn't CC. We are living in by far the most likely world here, and I don't see how you could miss that.

Kgray, Ghug, Maniac at the very least.
Think of it this way. What's the upside for town doc to CC? If they get killed they flip and reveal my bullshit. If they don't they still have cover for their plays.

[Donny Dude]

Hi Donny! Can you make some posts that are substantial, not parroting and not asking shallow questions? Thanks!

I did not like ghug's post at all as it could be used by scum ghug to earn credit if hr is town by claiming a vague feeling.

If HR is town he deserves to die anyway, and honestly we kinda deserve to lose. Looking forward to some substance from you

K, that makes sense Bob, but I think we are on the right although we tied, because it meant that although we may all be getting pissy with each other, it is a good sign that we are on the right track to something and not due to lack of effort.

[Ezio]

Gee whiz, my obnoxious fake claim which was unlikely to benefit town in any way and caused massive chaos is really townie, every single person on my wagon is like almost definitely scum and everyone else is town!

Do you actually believe this was unliikely to benefit town in any way? What of every other world where it works fucking great.
What way does it ever hurt town worse than it has in this fucking game?

Point me to at least three people on the player list who, if doctor, wouldn't CC. We are living in by far the most likely world here, and I don't see how you could miss that.

If we're not giving very least, We've got you, HR, RD and brainbomb.

I believe if you thought about this situation more, you would decide there's not actual town upside to CC.

[Ezio]

Shit maybe HB is actually scum and I just gave him the perfect cover ever.

Fuck me.

[Donny Dude]

Do you guys think it is safe now to reveal what ezio actually discarded?

[BobMcBob]

Do you actually believe this was unliikely to benefit town in any way? What of every other world where it works fucking great.
What way does it ever hurt town worse than it has in this fucking game?

Point me to at least three people on the player list who, if doctor, wouldn't CC. We are living in by far the most likely world here, and I don't see how you could miss that.

Kgray, Ghug, Maniac at the very least.
Think of it this way. What's the upside for town doc to CC? If they get killed they flip and reveal my bullshit. If they don't they still have cover for their plays.

At least half the playerbase would likely CC by my count. The upside for doc to CC is that you have clearly made a fake claim and most people (myself included) would assume sinister motives and CC. Even if you are town, your plan is horribly flawed and was never a good idea with these players.

[BobMcBob]

Do you actually believe this was unliikely to benefit town in any way? What of every other world where it works fucking great.
What way does it ever hurt town worse than it has in this fucking game?

Point me to at least three people on the player list who, if doctor, wouldn't CC. We are living in by far the most likely world here, and I don't see how you could miss that.

If we're not giving very least, We've got you, HR, RD and brainbomb.

I believe if you thought about this situation more, you would decide there's not actual town upside to CC.

I feel fairly sure both me and bb would CC. You're approaching this without taking into account how most people here play.

[BobMcBob]

Do you guys think it is safe now to reveal what ezio actually discarded?

I believe he should.

[Ezio]

Point me to at least three people on the player list who, if doctor, wouldn't CC. We are living in by far the most likely world here, and I don't see how you could miss that.

Kgray, Ghug, Maniac at the very least.
Think of it this way. What's the upside for town doc to CC? If they get killed they flip and reveal my bullshit. If they don't they still have cover for their plays.

At least half the playerbase would likely CC by my count. The upside for doc to CC is that you have clearly made a fake claim and most people (myself included) would assume sinister motives and CC. Even if you are town, your plan is horribly flawed and was never a good idea with these players.

Why is it actually flawed? What is the upside for me as scum, and what is the upside for me as town? Does the town downside materialize in any universe other than the one where I get cc'd?
Yes, you clearly would have CC'd.
Most ppl would have tried to figure out the scum motiviation for the claim vs the town motivation and realized the town motivation is much stronger. They then would have *not* cc'd me because it costs town a ton of win equity from the situation we're in.

[ghug]

Shit maybe HB is actually scum and I just gave him the perfect cover ever.

Fuck me.

HB doesn't even have the range to claim this at your direct instruction to create distance between teammates. He's town.

[Maniac]

Do you actually believe this was unliikely to benefit town in any way? What of every other world where it works fucking great.
What way does it ever hurt town worse than it has in this fucking game?

Point me to at least three people on the player list who, if doctor, wouldn't CC. We are living in by far the most likely world here, and I don't see how you could miss that.

Kgray, Ghug, Maniac at the very least.
Think of it this way. What's the upside for town doc to CC? If they get killed they flip and reveal my bullshit. If they don't they still have cover for their plays.

Yep - this checks out. In fact when HB asked me if he should expose a fake discard claimer, I advised him to consider if the fake claim could be town motivate (page 188).

@HB - do you see how Ezio’s fake discard claim could be townie in hindsight

Also I always thought the generally rule is don’t CC until you have to. People will bait a CC. Why give up you role too early?

[Ezio]

Like, wtf is your guys are problem? I made the play that maximizes town win% by a long shot.
It required me to think about the game from the perspective both both scum and town, realize the limited information scum are playing with, and then how to manipulate that information as town.
It gave our PR's the maximum chance to play their game to their fullest, and the clear cover to play it out perfectly. All it takes is them to *not* cc this claim. I maximized town's win %. That is all.

Why is that so crazy?

[Donny Dude]

Kgray, Ghug, Maniac at the very least.
Think of it this way. What's the upside for town doc to CC? If they get killed they flip and reveal my bullshit. If they don't they still have cover for their plays.

At least half the playerbase would likely CC by my count. The upside for doc to CC is that you have clearly made a fake claim and most people (myself included) would assume sinister motives and CC. Even if you are town, your plan is horribly flawed and was never a good idea with these players.

Why is it actually flawed? What is the upside for me as scum, and what is the upside for me as town? Does the town downside materialize in any universe other than the one where I get cc'd?
Yes, you clearly would have CC'd.
Most ppl would have tried to figure out the scum motiviation for the claim vs the town motivation and realized the town motivation is much stronger. They then would have *not* cc'd me because it costs town a ton of win equity from the situation we're in.

Why would the town motivation to do so stronger? Hamilton saw your claim and thought he had to cc it. A one for one trade from town is usually worth it.
So, I have to ask, Exio, why did you not retract your claim once you had that information gathered from your earlier post on Bona and kgray?

[Ezio]

Shit maybe HB is actually scum and I just gave him the perfect cover ever.

Fuck me.

HB doesn't even have the range to claim this at your direct instruction to create distance between teammates. He's town.

Sure. I don't know how HB plays particularly well. I guess I was supposed to yell all this at him earlier today when he told me he knew I was faking it. I hoped by hopping off his wagon he'd get a hint. I Guess he didn't, and I was supposed to start my arguments earlier.
My bad. Sorry team. I'll play better next time.

[Ezio]

At least half the playerbase would likely CC by my count. The upside for doc to CC is that you have clearly made a fake claim and most people (myself included) would assume sinister motives and CC. Even if you are town, your plan is horribly flawed and was never a good idea with these players.

Why is it actually flawed? What is the upside for me as scum, and what is the upside for me as town? Does the town downside materialize in any universe other than the one where I get cc'd?
Yes, you clearly would have CC'd.
Most ppl would have tried to figure out the scum motiviation for the claim vs the town motivation and realized the town motivation is much stronger. They then would have *not* cc'd me because it costs town a ton of win equity from the situation we're in.

Why would the town motivation to do so stronger? Hamilton saw your claim and thought he had to cc it. A one for one trade from town is usually worth it.
So, I have to ask, Exio, why did you not retract your claim once you had that information gathered from your earlier post on Bona and kgray?

Because if I'm trying to get targeted for the NK, retracting the claim is a terrible fucking idea.

[Ezio]

Shit maybe HB is actually scum and I just gave him the perfect cover ever.

Fuck me.

HB doesn't even have the range to claim this at your direct instruction to create distance between teammates. He's town.

Sure. I don't know how HB plays particularly well. I guess I was supposed to yell all this at him earlier today when he told me he knew I was faking it. I hoped by hopping off his wagon he'd get a hint. I Guess he didn't, and I was supposed to start my arguments earlier.
My bad. Sorry team. I'll play better next time.

As I said in my post just before yours, I guess I was supposed to explain all this to hamilton earlier. I misguessed how he was going to think and fucked it all up.
Whoops. Fuck me. I'm clearly terrible at this game and everything related to it.
Guess I cost town this one.

[Donny Dude]

Shit maybe HB is actually scum and I just gave him the perfect cover ever.

Fuck me.

This seems to me towny as it shows some regret and doubt scum would suddenly say that mid post as this is going on.