MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[brainbomb]

not that you deserve death for being obstructive tho

[ghug]

Ugh. Looking at the bandwagon on me:
We've got HB who started it. I townread him. I don't blame him for claiming that I lied about my discard. I think he *should* have kept it secret and known I was full of shit, but I think that should have made him townread more.
Everyone else on the wagon looks terrible.
Donny dude has followed ppl around and I don't remember a serious post from him. I think he followed me onto someone else, but idr for sure.

Emc has been his usual hedgely self, so I have no idea how hedgy to expect him to be this game. He's usually a profitable early DK, so I exepect that to be effective this true as well.
Vecna/Jasnah have both been far too awol to be following the game closely. I honestly townread vecna but scumread jasnah for it. Maybe my meta reads are wrong for it, but I've found vecna gives many fewer shits while scum.
HR and celaph are the weird ones.

obviously no scumead on celaph for his vote; he was trying to save himself. If I was around I would have voted him.

Hr has the bigger issue. Frankly, imo, everyone who ended their day on me looks quite scummy for it and should be asked to defend their position quite vigorously.

This wagon analysis ignores anyone who joined and left the wagon, which makes it very shallow.

[Ezio]

Ok, Ezio, my issue here is that the meta here has only very very recently evolved into fake claiming to cover for town PRs, so your expectation has to have been that you'd be counterclaimed here. You seem to truly believe that there's a pro-town reason for you to make your claim, but if you believe that, you also believe that you can get away with it as scum by saying "this makes way more sense as town than scum", and then we're back to the real outcome, which is outing the person with the card or learning that town probably doesn't have a doctor.

Dude I'm supposed to get NK'd for this claim. I ensured that by asking you what you thought about it and having you confirm I'm a pure mechanic player.
How much does learning town doesn't have a doctor cost town?
How much does scum thinking town doesn't have a doctor when we actually do help town?

When you realize the second helps town way more than the first hurts town, you realize fakeclaiming town has no doctor makes way more sense.

[Ezio]

Ugh. Looking at the bandwagon on me:
We've got HB who started it. I townread him. I don't blame him for claiming that I lied about my discard. I think he *should* have kept it secret and known I was full of shit, but I think that should have made him townread more.
Everyone else on the wagon looks terrible.
Donny dude has followed ppl around and I don't remember a serious post from him. I think he followed me onto someone else, but idr for sure.

Emc has been his usual hedgely self, so I have no idea how hedgy to expect him to be this game. He's usually a profitable early DK, so I exepect that to be effective this true as well.
Vecna/Jasnah have both been far too awol to be following the game closely. I honestly townread vecna but scumread jasnah for it. Maybe my meta reads are wrong for it, but I've found vecna gives many fewer shits while scum.
HR and celaph are the weird ones.

obviously no scumead on celaph for his vote; he was trying to save himself. If I was around I would have voted him.

Hr has the bigger issue. Frankly, imo, everyone who ended their day on me looks quite scummy for it and should be asked to defend their position quite vigorously.

This wagon analysis ignores anyone who joined and left the wagon, which makes it very shallow.

Fam I'm 6 shots deep. Of course all my analysis is going to be shallow.

[Ezio]

So again, I've given multiple effective profitable town reasons for scum claiming this discard, but no scum reasons for the discard except the one where ppl CC for no reason.

I think that makes me look very townie, when the downside is that I look like a good DK target.

I made a similar argument in the game where I claimed third party and caught xorxes as scum for it. Seems like it worked then.

[ghug]

Ok, Ezio, my issue here is that the meta here has only very very recently evolved into fake claiming to cover for town PRs, so your expectation has to have been that you'd be counterclaimed here. You seem to truly believe that there's a pro-town reason for you to make your claim, but if you believe that, you also believe that you can get away with it as scum by saying "this makes way more sense as town than scum", and then we're back to the real outcome, which is outing the person with the card or learning that town probably doesn't have a doctor.

Dude I'm supposed to get NK'd for this claim. I ensured that by asking you what you thought about it and having you confirm I'm a pure mechanic player.
How much does learning town doesn't have a doctor cost town?
How much does scum thinking town doesn't have a doctor when we actually do help town?

When you realize the second helps town way more than the first hurts town, you realize fakeclaiming town has no doctor makes way more sense.

Bullshit. The former is bad, because scum no longer have to dance around things. The latter is minorly good, because scum will be picking from a couple obvious targets without fear, but that still doesn't guarantee docsaves. The biggest power a doctor has is creating fear of a doctor.

[Ezio]

Ok, Ezio, my issue here is that the meta here has only very very recently evolved into fake claiming to cover for town PRs, so your expectation has to have been that you'd be counterclaimed here. You seem to truly believe that there's a pro-town reason for you to make your claim, but if you believe that, you also believe that you can get away with it as scum by saying "this makes way more sense as town than scum", and then we're back to the real outcome, which is outing the person with the card or learning that town probably doesn't have a doctor.

Dude I'm supposed to get NK'd for this claim. I ensured that by asking you what you thought about it and having you confirm I'm a pure mechanic player.
How much does learning town doesn't have a doctor cost town?
How much does scum thinking town doesn't have a doctor when we actually do help town?

When you realize the second helps town way more than the first hurts town, you realize fakeclaiming town has no doctor makes way more sense.

Bullshit. The former is bad, because scum no longer have to dance around things. The latter is minorly good, because scum will be picking from a couple obvious targets without fear, but that still doesn't guarantee docsaves. The biggest power a doctor has is creating fear of a doctor.

Oh cmon. What do you mean the latter doesn't guarantee docsaves? There are only going to be 1-2 pr's outed each phase, at an absolute worst. This gives our doc as many chances as they could ever want to get a save, with scum assuming there is no doc.

[ghug]

We're at the point where either Ezio or I could say the sky is blue and the other would insist that it's red.

[ghug]

Dude I'm supposed to get NK'd for this claim. I ensured that by asking you what you thought about it and having you confirm I'm a pure mechanic player.
How much does learning town doesn't have a doctor cost town?
How much does scum thinking town doesn't have a doctor when we actually do help town?

When you realize the second helps town way more than the first hurts town, you realize fakeclaiming town has no doctor makes way more sense.

Bullshit. The former is bad, because scum no longer have to dance around things. The latter is minorly good, because scum will be picking from a couple obvious targets without fear, but that still doesn't guarantee docsaves. The biggest power a doctor has is creating fear of a doctor.

Oh cmon. What do you mean the latter doesn't guarantee docsaves? There are only going to be 1-2 pr's outed each phase, at an absolute worst. This gives our doc as many chances as they could ever want to get a save, with scum assuming there is no doc.

It buys one save maximum.

[Ezio]

@bunny go
https://gyazo.com/8d4644171803291b41f4b9bc0d90c7c9
Didn't you say you had no mafia losses on this forum and were therefore a perfect scum player who would call out kgray perfectly? Why does it look like you have 2 losses and 1 win? Am I misreading something?

[Ezio]

Bullshit. The former is bad, because scum no longer have to dance around things. The latter is minorly good, because scum will be picking from a couple obvious targets without fear, but that still doesn't guarantee docsaves. The biggest power a doctor has is creating fear of a doctor.

Oh cmon. What do you mean the latter doesn't guarantee docsaves? There are only going to be 1-2 pr's outed each phase, at an absolute worst. This gives our doc as many chances as they could ever want to get a save, with scum assuming there is no doc.

It buys one save maximum.

And isn't that fucking great? It gives us maximum chances for us to get a docsave while costing us a potential mafia NK on a VT?
What's the fucking downside?

[Donny Dude]

I mostly mean HR and Ezio. Some people seem to want to lump celaph in there too.

I mean, HR is going to flip scum. I'll never play again if he's town here. So I don't find him questionable.

I have this weird gut feeling that he's town and I hate it.

What makes you think that?

[Ezio]

Is the downside seriously that ya'll are fucking crazy and dk me or it? Is that the actual universe we're living in? If so, congrats.

Instead, I think we're living in the world where the ppl on my wagon look like absolute shite and will therefore be scumread for it. The people elsewhere look fine.

[BobMcBob]

I mean, HR is going to flip scum. I'll never play again if he's town here. So I don't find him questionable.

I have this weird gut feeling that he's town and I hate it.

What makes you think that?

Hi Donny! Can you make some posts that are substantial, not parroting and not asking shallow questions? Thanks!

[ghug]

Oh cmon. What do you mean the latter doesn't guarantee docsaves? There are only going to be 1-2 pr's outed each phase, at an absolute worst. This gives our doc as many chances as they could ever want to get a save, with scum assuming there is no doc.

It buys one save maximum.

And isn't that fucking great? It gives us maximum chances for us to get a docsave while costing us a potential mafia NK on a VT?
What's the fucking downside?

Did you forget my post from ten minutes ago? The downside is revealing there's no doctor and letting scum run riot for the entire game!

[Ezio]

There's a reason I'm known for having the vig fucking shoot me out of nowhere. It's because I make plays that get individuals to scumread me, even though the majority of town does not.
The vig decides to take the shot rather than wait and see, and I get killed for it.
Do I give a shit?

Of course not. I'm going to die making the plays I believe are optimal and y'all can fuck yourselves.
I've done my best analyzing these wagons from the previous day. I think they all look like trash and the ones who look the worst are HR, donny dude, and EMC. If I get DK'd tomorrow, I guess that's the universe we're in.

[BobMcBob]

Is the downside seriously that ya'll are fucking crazy and dk me or it? Is that the actual universe we're living in? If so, congrats.

Instead, I think we're living in the world where the ppl on my wagon look like absolute shite and will therefore be scumread for it. The people elsewhere look fine.

Gee whiz, my obnoxious fake claim which was unlikely to benefit town in any way and caused massive chaos is really townie, every single person on my wagon is like almost definitely scum and everyone else is town!

[Donny Dude]

I have this weird gut feeling that he's town and I hate it.

What makes you think that?

Hi Donny! Can you make some posts that are substantial, not parroting and not asking shallow questions? Thanks!

I did not like ghug's post at all as it could be used by scum ghug to earn credit if hr is town by claiming a vague feeling.

[Ezio]

It buys one save maximum.

And isn't that fucking great? It gives us maximum chances for us to get a docsave while costing us a potential mafia NK on a VT?
What's the fucking downside?

Did you forget my post from ten minutes ago? The downside is revealing there's no doctor and letting scum run riot for the entire game!

Dude someone's gonna pick doc if they can. How many cards are dealt? What're the odds town doc is actually in the game? All they have to do is keep their mouth shut and this works perfectly.

This is like a 70% play or some shit.

[Ezio]

Is the downside seriously that ya'll are fucking crazy and dk me or it? Is that the actual universe we're living in? If so, congrats.

Instead, I think we're living in the world where the ppl on my wagon look like absolute shite and will therefore be scumread for it. The people elsewhere look fine.

Gee whiz, my obnoxious fake claim which was unlikely to benefit town in any way and caused massive chaos is really townie, every single person on my wagon is like almost definitely scum and everyone else is town!

Do you actually believe this was unliikely to benefit town in any way? What of every other world where it works fucking great.
What way does it ever hurt town worse than it has in this fucking game?