MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[President Eden]

If ghug is actually town then this is my last game on webDiplomacy, or at least my last one with him. I cannot believe he could be town and have such an utterly poisonous mindset and have that actually be tolerated. His ISO is nothing but shitting on people trying to solve the game. It is appalling that he can be doing things he concedes are terrible while still having the arrogance to shade people trying to solve. It is the definition of toxic. If this is what this community has become, I'm ashamed.

Luckily he is not town, this is just mafia demoralizing solving efforts, and when we flip him we'll be much closer to winning the game.

He's fine, you're being dramatic

No, he's really not.

[Durga]

If ghug is actually town then this is my last game on webDiplomacy, or at least my last one with him. I cannot believe he could be town and have such an utterly poisonous mindset and have that actually be tolerated. His ISO is nothing but shitting on people trying to solve the game. It is appalling that he can be doing things he concedes are terrible while still having the arrogance to shade people trying to solve. It is the definition of toxic. If this is what this community has become, I'm ashamed.

Luckily he is not town, this is just mafia demoralizing solving efforts, and when we flip him we'll be much closer to winning the game.

He's fine, you're being dramatic

No, he's really not.

He's really milquetoast compared to some others.

Anyway mafia don't tend to openly demoralize solving efforts, that would be bold

[President Eden]

He's really milquetoast compared to some others.

Anyway mafia don't tend to openly demoralize solving efforts, that would be bold

Town that demoralize solving efforts literally are playing against their win condition by definition. It's not even that bold for ghug to do it as mafia since he inexplicably gets townread for doing it, but even if it is, it's at least playing to his win condition, even if it's risky or turns out to be -EV. Shitting on other town for trying to solve the game while concededly doing jack and shit to solve it himself is appallingly anti-town regardless of his alignment. I refuse to believe he is doing this on purpose as town. He has to be mafia.

[Bonatogether]

Alright you clowns I've finished all trillion years of Das Boot and I'm back to post more reads.

HR: d1 was average. I like his EoN reads list, but then I have the choice of continuing what I'm doing now or trying to be more like last game :|. d2 is all talking about how Nk analysis sucks. Leanscum.

worcej: really tried to avoid getting voted n1. nothing interesting d2. Maybe scum?

already posted a celaph read. It's basically I think he's consciously emulating last game but he's less accurate, which lets him get less shade.

tom: obvscum. not a question

I've realized my post count is the lowest of any living player. I'm going to try to get that up.

[Hellenic Riot]

My D2 is all about NK Analysis? Nothing about my interactions with rdrivera and Durga? Really?

[Durga]

He's really milquetoast compared to some others.

Anyway mafia don't tend to openly demoralize solving efforts, that would be bold

Town that demoralize solving efforts literally are playing against their win condition by definition. It's not even that bold for ghug to do it as mafia since he inexplicably gets townread for doing it, but even if it is, it's at least playing to his win condition, even if it's risky or turns out to be -EV. Shitting on other town for trying to solve the game while concededly doing jack and shit to solve it himself is appallingly anti-town regardless of his alignment. I refuse to believe he is doing this on purpose as town. He has to be mafia.

That's not exactly playing against your win condition. Playing a less that appealing play style is not playing against your win condition.

I don't understand why you're adament he has to be mafia when you've literally been told he's done this as town.

[President Eden]

He's really milquetoast compared to some others.

Anyway mafia don't tend to openly demoralize solving efforts, that would be bold

Town that demoralize solving efforts literally are playing against their win condition by definition. It's not even that bold for ghug to do it as mafia since he inexplicably gets townread for doing it, but even if it is, it's at least playing to his win condition, even if it's risky or turns out to be -EV. Shitting on other town for trying to solve the game while concededly doing jack and shit to solve it himself is appallingly anti-town regardless of his alignment. I refuse to believe he is doing this on purpose as town. He has to be mafia.

That's not exactly playing against your win condition. Playing a less that appealing play style is not playing against your win condition.

I don't understand why you're adament he has to be mafia when you've literally been told he's done this as town.

It's not "less than appealing." He has admitted that he thinks his vote on worcej is bad. He is not doing anything to find a better one. He shades every other kill idea out there without trying to build off of any of them OR find a good idea of his own. How exactly is he going to catch mafia this way? How is this helping his team win? What win condition does this conceivably play toward?

If he's town then as far as I'm concerned he's breaking rule 7. Hence why, if he is town and this appallingly anti-town behavior is tolerated, this is it for me.

[Durga]

I've also voted people because I think town is better off without them even if I thought they were town, it's not against rule 7. I'm done with this discussion ghug can defend himself

[brainbomb]

##Vote ghug

im convinced now

[worcej]

I'd probably wait a day, but not much longer.

I'll reconsider if you make yourself seem townie, as I kinda did last game, brief bouts of emotion not withstanding.

Reading this leads me to invalidate any portion of your ND concern on my case - if it was a driving factor, it should not matter who filled the slot.

It's that I'm willing to kill anyone outside of the group of people whom I either townread or think deserve a few days because they're good at town. You don't fit either of those descriptions, and your death would be informative and mildly enjoyable, so I picked you.

Rather lazy of you to keep a similar schtick. It seems rather... closed minded.

[worcej]

I've also voted people because I think town is better off without them even if I thought they were town, it's not against rule 7. I'm done with this discussion ghug can defend himself

Why were you defending him anyways?

[ghug]

##Vote ghug

im convinced now

"ghug called me out for fanning the flames so I better actually vote for him"

[ghug]

Reading this leads me to invalidate any portion of your ND concern on my case - if it was a driving factor, it should not matter who filled the slot.

It's that I'm willing to kill anyone outside of the group of people whom I either townread or think deserve a few days because they're good at town. You don't fit either of those descriptions, and your death would be informative and mildly enjoyable, so I picked you.

Rather lazy of you to keep a similar schtick. It seems rather... closed minded.

Can't get good evidence if you only do it once.

[ghug]

He's really milquetoast compared to some others.

Anyway mafia don't tend to openly demoralize solving efforts, that would be bold

Town that demoralize solving efforts literally are playing against their win condition by definition. It's not even that bold for ghug to do it as mafia since he inexplicably gets townread for doing it, but even if it is, it's at least playing to his win condition, even if it's risky or turns out to be -EV. Shitting on other town for trying to solve the game while concededly doing jack and shit to solve it himself is appallingly anti-town regardless of his alignment. I refuse to believe he is doing this on purpose as town. He has to be mafia.

K I wasn't going to respond to this but I just can't help myself.

I'm not demoralizing solving efforts. I'm a little disappointed that your level of effort is making it pretty clear to me that you're town, but the conclusions you're actually drawing seem shallow and poorly thought out, and I respected your play a lot at some point in the past. I don't think I'm really doing that to anyone else.

This strategy is a calculated choice I've made after seeing numerous late games blown by bad/lurky town. We lost last game, but it was at least active to the end, which I liked, so I'm trying it again. I was also hoping it would get people talking, which it didn't really do last game, but has done here. You didn't seem to think I was breaking rule 7 last game when you were in charge of interpreting the rule, so I'm going to agree with Durga and say that you're being dramatic.

The claim that I'm not trying to solve the game at all is a little ridiculous. I'm interacting with people. I'm asking questions. I'm giving reads and opinions. I'm not doing big rereads or writing essays. I may or may not do the former at some point. I've been playing from my phone since the game started. I dislike the latter on principle, because it tends to benefit people who are better at arguing regardless of their alignments, which isn't helpful for solving.

You haven't questioned me at all here. You flipped your read of me very suddenly over one thing and decided to make it a very big deal. I can't see scum motivation for it, and it feels like more eager play I dislike, so I'm inclined to continue scumreading you for it. Worcej's vote is pure OMGUS, so pretty NAI. Chaqa's is scummy, but everything Chaqa does is scummy, which is why I want to kill him early even though I null read him. Brain's is awful, and he's a bona fide scumread now. Durga getting pissed at me and then defending me feels like town Durga, but she's able to fake anger as scum at least, so I'm not gonna move her back further than null.

[ghug]

Hi gold.

[Chaqa]

Ghug thinks I’m scum, which means I’m town.

Verifiable fact

[aarodactyl]

Ghug thinks I’m scum, which means I’m town.

Verifiable fact

I buy this.

[aarodactyl]

I tried to go to bed early and it didn’t stick so I’m up again. I’m only done writing up comments on 4 players, so I’m not getting that post out tonight.

However, I will say it’s weird that bunny and Vecna still haven’t posted even after being called out for not doing so. It’s been almost 36 hours since bunny’s last post. I haven’t looked into Vecna’s stats but it feels completely different from last game.

For now I’m going to ##vote bunny but this will likely change when I finish my reads list. If it doesn’t change, I’ll explicitly say so.

[rdrivera2005]

I don't really agree with the wagon on ghug. I'm getting scummy vibes from them, but they're basically the same scummy vibes I got from him last game (when he was town PR).

On the other hand, if people aren't trusting him, then there's not much incentive for me to finish collecting my thoughts tonight, since I doubt he'll have the energy to fulfill his promise of a tunnel on me.

This post is really weird. Why him tunneling you or not should influence your engagement with the game? Could you be so blatantly scummy?

[rdrivera2005]

Ghug cares much more about his image when he's scum, I don't think scum. Ghug votes the ND slot again, he'd make more of an effort to look like he's scum hunting

Scum Ghug also posts more things people agree with and makes the look good decision and I don't see that so yeah town.

Two good posts from Donnie (this and the other reacting to Aaro). Moving him to probably town list.