M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[bozotheclown]

No, but I don't know any details beyond the fact it happened.

And that ghug and Durga and you were the bussers

@Bozo - here is me directly contradicting your supposed "gotcha"

Like, earlier this very page.

That was after I questioned you about it.

[Chaqa]

You were scum reading damo but used the players voting for him as an excuse to avoid voting for him and tried to get other players to start a new wagon, but then when it was obvious the DK was going to be damo or celaph, you voted for damo at the time it would maximize the bussing effect if you are scum.

I questioned kgray about her D1 vote movements and explanation for her votes as early as N1. However, I think what kgray did D1 would not have been a good scum play despite having potentially saved teacon, while I think what you did D1 would have been a good scum play despite the risk of getting teacon DKed. Therefore, I think your D1 is more scum indicative.

At the time of the damo-celaph vote, my town reads were mostly voting celaph.

If I was scum with Damo, I had the easiest justification in the world for voting celaph, who I was also scum reading, but I didn't. It doesn't make any sense for me to bus in that situation.

It would make sense unless you thought damo had a chance to survive until the end of the game. kgray and I were voting for damo also, do you think it makes more sense for us to bus damo than you?

Well, yes.

Let's say I start a wagon on a scum teammate, and it gains a lot of traction and is about to become a lead wagon. If I leave it, and he gets caught, I'm going to look really suspicious.

This is the reason I was having some doubts on ghug for leaving and re-joining the damo wagon, and why I suspect kgray for the teacon wagon on Day 1. We have many examples this very game of scum voting for their teammates when they aren't under threat.

I think whichever one of you is scum got caught in the wagon and couldn't get off of it without making the connection clear.

[Chaqa]

And that ghug and Durga and you were the bussers

@Bozo - here is me directly contradicting your supposed "gotcha"

Like, earlier this very page.

That was after I questioned you about it.

Show me the post where I denied knowledge of the bussing as you claim I did.

[kgray]

I don't, but I always thought it looked a little too suspicious for kgray to have done as scum.

What. You scumread me so much for that.

I definitely questioned you a lot for it, because it looked suspicious, but the reason I dropped it by D2 was because I felt you would avoid looking that suspicious as scum. Here is a post from D2 referencing that:

Trying to turn it around on me, are we?

You usually use much more shallow logic as scum Bozo. You misrepresent facts, leave out the logical deductions and just focus on a simple thing that you think will look plausible as a reason to scumread someone.

So yeah, you claimed to have read the entire game. Why are you voting Kgray without looking at the stuff she has said about those people? Whether her votes and switches make sense with her stances?

I think that is NAI, kgray is very capable of covering here votes as scum.

I think the best argument in kgray's favor is that I would expect her to follow through bussing teacon if she were scum.

I know I brought it up again D9, because I do not think it is impossible you thought you could get away with saving teacon using the "too suspicious" argument, but I no longer think that is the case.

Why do you no longer think that I thought I could get away with it?

[kgray]

I think it's really convenient to town read me all the way to Final Three then flip against me like this. You knew kgray has had suspicion of me and that I'm always an easy miskill.

Yeah I think so too... if bozo's scum then he thinks I'm more likely to vote for you than you are to vote for me. Do you think he'd think that?

Not to sound like I am trying to repeat what you said about ghug and I think you also said about me earlier in the game, but if I were scum you and ghug would have been long removed from the game. I figured ghug was the priest since he twice said he did not eat fish on D1.

I'm not sure I buy this. There were tons of townclears and then priest claimants to NK before scum would consider NKing me (and ghug, until the celaph kill), not to mention I've pretty much spent most of the game defending you. Why would you get rid of me when I'm not a clear and I fought against your wagon several times this game?

Also, I don't know if ghug was trying to crumb that way, but it doesn't make sense. If anything, priests eat more fish because of Lent.

[kgray]

Chaqa appears to be making an attempt to prevent the damo NK here.

This is exactly what I mean.

I had legitimate concerns about voting Damo, but in the end I was the deciding damo vote. Somehow this is SCUMMY to you.

aYet on Day 1, Kgray was the deciding vote on the teacon wagon, LEFT IT, rejoined to become the deciding vote on the ND wagon, which is an ACTUAL situation of saving scum, and you don't scumread her for it, in a situation where saving scum is MUCH more scummy.

Regardless of what I think about kgray's scumminess, it is SUPER out of character for town!Bozo to not be harping on this point as well.

You were scum reading damo but used the players voting for him as an excuse to avoid voting for him and tried to get other players to start a new wagon, but then when it was obvious the DK was going to be damo or celaph, you voted for damo at the time it would maximize the bussing effect if you are scum.

I questioned kgray about her D1 vote movements and explanation for her votes as early as N1. However, I think what kgray did D1 would not have been a good scum play despite having potentially saved teacon, while I think what you did D1 would have been a good scum play despite the risk of getting teacon DKed. Therefore, I think your D1 is more scum indicative.

If you think this, why not bring up that Chaqa's D1 is scum indicative once we saw the teacon flip?

[kgray]

You were scum reading damo but used the players voting for him as an excuse to avoid voting for him and tried to get other players to start a new wagon, but then when it was obvious the DK was going to be damo or celaph, you voted for damo at the time it would maximize the bussing effect if you are scum.

I questioned kgray about her D1 vote movements and explanation for her votes as early as N1. However, I think what kgray did D1 would not have been a good scum play despite having potentially saved teacon, while I think what you did D1 would have been a good scum play despite the risk of getting teacon DKed. Therefore, I think your D1 is more scum indicative.

At the time of the damo-celaph vote, my town reads were mostly voting celaph.

If I was scum with Damo, I had the easiest justification in the world for voting celaph, who I was also scum reading, but I didn't. It doesn't make any sense for me to bus in that situation.

It would make sense unless you thought damo had a chance to survive until the end of the game. kgray and I were voting for damo also, do you think it makes more sense for us to bus damo than you?

K but if I were scum there's no way I could have voted celaph and not damo. Damo had consistently been one of my top scumreads and I'd been townreading celaph. So yeah, it would make sense for me to be busing damo there. How come you're not considering that?

[bozotheclown]

@Bozo - here is me directly contradicting your supposed "gotcha"

Like, earlier this very page.

That was after I questioned you about it.

Show me the post where I denied knowledge of the bussing as you claim I did.

This is in response to me saying I would expect you to consider D1 bussing based on M60:

<clipped>

On being in M60 - i was, but I died very early and didn't follow the game after i died.

[kgray]

At the time of the damo-celaph vote, my town reads were mostly voting celaph.

If I was scum with Damo, I had the easiest justification in the world for voting celaph, who I was also scum reading, but I didn't. It doesn't make any sense for me to bus in that situation.

It would make sense unless you thought damo had a chance to survive until the end of the game. kgray and I were voting for damo also, do you think it makes more sense for us to bus damo than you?

Well, yes.

Let's say I start a wagon on a scum teammate, and it gains a lot of traction and is about to become a lead wagon. If I leave it, and he gets caught, I'm going to look really suspicious.

This is the reason I was having some doubts on ghug for leaving and re-joining the damo wagon, and why I suspect kgray for the teacon wagon on Day 1. We have many examples this very game of scum voting for their teammates when they aren't under threat.

I think whichever one of you is scum got caught in the wagon and couldn't get off of it without making the connection clear.

You are saying that (1) scum would have to carry through with their bus because it doesn't make sense for scum to start a wagon on a teammate and then leave it when it gets traction, because that looks too suspicious and (2) that that's exactly what I did D1 with teacon. So which is it?

[Chaqa]

That was after I questioned you about it.

Show me the post where I denied knowledge of the bussing as you claim I did.

This is in response to me saying I would expect you to consider D1 bussing based on M60:

<clipped>

On being in M60 - i was, but I died very early and didn't follow the game after i died.

Yes, and this doesn’t conflict at all with the knowledge of bussing. I didn’t mention it at all.

[bozotheclown]

What. You scumread me so much for that.

I definitely questioned you a lot for it, because it looked suspicious, but the reason I dropped it by D2 was because I felt you would avoid looking that suspicious as scum. Here is a post from D2 referencing that:

I think that is NAI, kgray is very capable of covering here votes as scum.

I think the best argument in kgray's favor is that I would expect her to follow through bussing teacon if she were scum.

I know I brought it up again D9, because I do not think it is impossible you thought you could get away with saving teacon using the "too suspicious" argument, but I no longer think that is the case.

Why do you no longer think that I thought I could get away with it?

I no longer think that is the case because I think it is more likely Chaqa is scum, and therefore you are town. I would say I now consider your D1 in the WIFO category.

[bozotheclown]

I definitely questioned you a lot for it, because it looked suspicious, but the reason I dropped it by D2 was because I felt you would avoid looking that suspicious as scum. Here is a post from D2 referencing that:



I know I brought it up again D9, because I do not think it is impossible you thought you could get away with saving teacon using the "too suspicious" argument, but I no longer think that is the case.

Why do you no longer think that I thought I could get away with it?

I no longer think that is the case because I think it is more likely Chaqa is scum, and therefore you are town. I would say I now consider your D1 in the WIFO category.

WIFOM

[Chaqa]

It would make sense unless you thought damo had a chance to survive until the end of the game. kgray and I were voting for damo also, do you think it makes more sense for us to bus damo than you?

Well, yes.

Let's say I start a wagon on a scum teammate, and it gains a lot of traction and is about to become a lead wagon. If I leave it, and he gets caught, I'm going to look really suspicious.

This is the reason I was having some doubts on ghug for leaving and re-joining the damo wagon, and why I suspect kgray for the teacon wagon on Day 1. We have many examples this very game of scum voting for their teammates when they aren't under threat.

I think whichever one of you is scum got caught in the wagon and couldn't get off of it without making the connection clear.

You are saying that (1) scum would have to carry through with their bus because it doesn't make sense for scum to start a wagon on a teammate and then leave it when it gets traction, because that looks too suspicious and (2) that that's exactly what I did D1 with teacon. So which is it?

I was saying that the final scum could not leave the Damo wagon because if/when Damo was caught, it would implicate them. This is what I had some lingering suspicions of ghug for, and it’s similar to what you did with teacon on Day 1. On the Damo wagon, whichever of you is the last scum had to stay on it or else get implicated once he flipped later

[kgray]

Well, yes.

Let's say I start a wagon on a scum teammate, and it gains a lot of traction and is about to become a lead wagon. If I leave it, and he gets caught, I'm going to look really suspicious.

This is the reason I was having some doubts on ghug for leaving and re-joining the damo wagon, and why I suspect kgray for the teacon wagon on Day 1. We have many examples this very game of scum voting for their teammates when they aren't under threat.

I think whichever one of you is scum got caught in the wagon and couldn't get off of it without making the connection clear.

You are saying that (1) scum would have to carry through with their bus because it doesn't make sense for scum to start a wagon on a teammate and then leave it when it gets traction, because that looks too suspicious and (2) that that's exactly what I did D1 with teacon. So which is it?

I was saying that the final scum could not leave the Damo wagon because if/when Damo was caught, it would implicate them. This is what I had some lingering suspicions of ghug for, and it’s similar to what you did with teacon on Day 1. On the Damo wagon, whichever of you is the last scum had to stay on it or else get implicated once he flipped later

I still don't know why you think that scum couldn't do that, and yet you're suspicious of me for doing exactly that on D1, but okay.

If you're town, then from your POV the last scum was actively pushing for damo's flip. bozo and I were both driving that wagon pretty consistently D5, and were encouraging others to get on it. Which of us do you think looks more like we were busing?

[bozotheclown]

Yeah I think so too... if bozo's scum then he thinks I'm more likely to vote for you than you are to vote for me. Do you think he'd think that?

Not to sound like I am trying to repeat what you said about ghug and I think you also said about me earlier in the game, but if I were scum you and ghug would have been long removed from the game. I figured ghug was the priest since he twice said he did not eat fish on D1.

I'm not sure I buy this. There were tons of townclears and then priest claimants to NK before scum would consider NKing me (and ghug, until the celaph kill), not to mention I've pretty much spent most of the game defending you. Why would you get rid of me when I'm not a clear and I fought against your wagon several times this game?

Also, I don't know if ghug was trying to crumb that way, but it doesn't make sense. If anything, priests eat more fish because of Lent.

I always thought ghug was more likely the priest than HR or Balki. His crumb made sense because of the association of priests eating fish, even if he said he did not eat fish.

That is a good point about you, I might have risked keeping you around.

[kgray]

Not to sound like I am trying to repeat what you said about ghug and I think you also said about me earlier in the game, but if I were scum you and ghug would have been long removed from the game. I figured ghug was the priest since he twice said he did not eat fish on D1.

I'm not sure I buy this. There were tons of townclears and then priest claimants to NK before scum would consider NKing me (and ghug, until the celaph kill), not to mention I've pretty much spent most of the game defending you. Why would you get rid of me when I'm not a clear and I fought against your wagon several times this game?

Also, I don't know if ghug was trying to crumb that way, but it doesn't make sense. If anything, priests eat more fish because of Lent.

I always thought ghug was more likely the priest than HR or Balki. His crumb made sense because of the association of priests eating fish, even if he said he did not eat fish.

That is a good point about you, I might have risked keeping you around.

What's the risk in you keeping me around though??

[bozotheclown]

This is exactly what I mean.

I had legitimate concerns about voting Damo, but in the end I was the deciding damo vote. Somehow this is SCUMMY to you.

aYet on Day 1, Kgray was the deciding vote on the teacon wagon, LEFT IT, rejoined to become the deciding vote on the ND wagon, which is an ACTUAL situation of saving scum, and you don't scumread her for it, in a situation where saving scum is MUCH more scummy.

Regardless of what I think about kgray's scumminess, it is SUPER out of character for town!Bozo to not be harping on this point as well.

You were scum reading damo but used the players voting for him as an excuse to avoid voting for him and tried to get other players to start a new wagon, but then when it was obvious the DK was going to be damo or celaph, you voted for damo at the time it would maximize the bussing effect if you are scum.

I questioned kgray about her D1 vote movements and explanation for her votes as early as N1. However, I think what kgray did D1 would not have been a good scum play despite having potentially saved teacon, while I think what you did D1 would have been a good scum play despite the risk of getting teacon DKed. Therefore, I think your D1 is more scum indicative.

If you think this, why not bring up that Chaqa's D1 is scum indicative once we saw the teacon flip?

It is a lot harder to see it in the noise of 20+ players.

[bozotheclown]

At the time of the damo-celaph vote, my town reads were mostly voting celaph.

If I was scum with Damo, I had the easiest justification in the world for voting celaph, who I was also scum reading, but I didn't. It doesn't make any sense for me to bus in that situation.

It would make sense unless you thought damo had a chance to survive until the end of the game. kgray and I were voting for damo also, do you think it makes more sense for us to bus damo than you?

K but if I were scum there's no way I could have voted celaph and not damo. Damo had consistently been one of my top scumreads and I'd been townreading celaph. So yeah, it would make sense for me to be busing damo there. How come you're not considering that?

I didn't say you couldn't have been bussing damo, it has been know for a while that the last scum bussed damo. I think Chaqa's D5 looks more suspicious because of the way he waited to vote for damo, then voted for him at the best time to sell the bus.

[kgray]

You were scum reading damo but used the players voting for him as an excuse to avoid voting for him and tried to get other players to start a new wagon, but then when it was obvious the DK was going to be damo or celaph, you voted for damo at the time it would maximize the bussing effect if you are scum.

I questioned kgray about her D1 vote movements and explanation for her votes as early as N1. However, I think what kgray did D1 would not have been a good scum play despite having potentially saved teacon, while I think what you did D1 would have been a good scum play despite the risk of getting teacon DKed. Therefore, I think your D1 is more scum indicative.

If you think this, why not bring up that Chaqa's D1 is scum indicative once we saw the teacon flip?

It is a lot harder to see it in the noise of 20+ players.

Yeah I don't know, it kind of seems like you're just taking his vote and forcing a scum narrative on it. I'm not sure how it's scummy on its own.

[kgray]

It would make sense unless you thought damo had a chance to survive until the end of the game. kgray and I were voting for damo also, do you think it makes more sense for us to bus damo than you?

K but if I were scum there's no way I could have voted celaph and not damo. Damo had consistently been one of my top scumreads and I'd been townreading celaph. So yeah, it would make sense for me to be busing damo there. How come you're not considering that?

I didn't say you couldn't have been bussing damo, it has been know for a while that the last scum bussed damo. I think Chaqa's D5 looks more suspicious because of the way he waited to vote for damo, then voted for him at the best time to sell the bus.

I think voting for damo early would be a better time to sell the bus. You don't?