Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[xorxes]

Lynching unclaimed people immediately ruins the entire strategy, since you immediately have a flip that can never be verified. Meaning you will never know how many scum youre dealing with in the pool of PRs and VTs.

If some townie who is about to be lynched does not claim their role before dying, then they are playing against their win condition, do you disagree?

[Vecna]

##unvote Xorxes

You clearly havent broken enough setups yet for the novelty to wear off and for it to get boring. There is only opposition and stubborness ahead, and were probably going to end up mislynching some towny today that is flat-out refusing.

Anyways, lets see where this goes. Ill not be the one to be difficult for once (or anymore than I have already).

I claim PR.

[xorxes]

Lmao

The thing with new players is you can never be quite sure if they are serious or if they are playing the newbie card.

Trust me- dont often admit to being a Noob at anything in life... but here i am :)

Nothing wrong with being a noob. It's just that sometimes new players overplay their cluelessness to appear more towny. I remember playing that card in my first game as scum. I was saying that it is not always easy to tell true newbishness apart from the exacerbated variety.

[Vecna]

Sorry to all the newer players. This just turned into a bad introduction game, but at least you wont have to try to be stealthy if you rolled an important role.

[xorxes]

im right here to discuss this boring plan of yours xorxes (well not really yours, but you get my drift)

I'm semi catching up, but I'm here as well.

[xorxes]

PR: xorxes, Vecna
VT: damo

##VOTE mecca since I have to change my vote now.

[rdrivera2005]

cross-post. bah

Maybe I should just change my mind on this to make a clear statement once and for all that all setups should either be closed or vanilla.

I have no real idea how you find this way of playing the game fun Xorxes

The fun for me is in finding scum. I don't believe a massclaim breaks this game, it just improves our chances of finding scum. It forces scum to make tough decisions early, before they have time to consult with their teammates. I don't really see any fun in playing suboptimally. The only acceptable reason to play a game suboptimally is when you are playing with a child and you want to make it fun for them, so you don't do your best to win.

I agree with this, you can't dismiss a tool to improve your chances because it's less fun But I think the setups should punish massclaim to avoid this discussion.

I claim VT.

[xorxes]

Sorry to all the newer players. This just turned into a bad introduction game, but at least you wont have to try to be stealthy if you rolled an important role.

You should still try to be stealthy if we're not claiming specific roles.

[BobMcBob]

cross-post. bah

Maybe I should just change my mind on this to make a clear statement once and for all that all setups should either be closed or vanilla.

I have no real idea how you find this way of playing the game fun Xorxes

The fun for me is in finding scum. I don't believe a massclaim breaks this game, it just improves our chances of finding scum. It forces scum to make tough decisions early, before they have time to consult with their teammates. I don't really see any fun in playing suboptimally. The only acceptable reason to play a game suboptimally is when you are playing with a child and you want to make it fun for them, so you don't do your best to win.

Incorrect. I find great joy in playing (some) games suboptimally, because often suboptimal strategies can be more interesting. There's a fun to optimising, but there's also a fun to doing something wacky and unexpected. It varies up the game and prevents it from being more of the same. I'm not necessarily saying any of that applies to Mafia, but playing suboptimally is not just for playing against children.

[Vecna]

Sorry to all the newer players. This just turned into a bad introduction game, but at least you wont have to try to be stealthy if you rolled an important role.

You should still try to be stealthy if we're not claiming specific roles.

Naturally, my big wall post still stands....mostly

[rdrivera2005]

cross-post. bah

Maybe I should just change my mind on this to make a clear statement once and for all that all setups should either be closed or vanilla.

I have no real idea how you find this way of playing the game fun Xorxes

The fun for me is in finding scum. I don't believe a massclaim breaks this game, it just improves our chances of finding scum. It forces scum to make tough decisions early, before they have time to consult with their teammates. I don't really see any fun in playing suboptimally. The only acceptable reason to play a game suboptimally is when you are playing with a child and you want to make it fun for them, so you don't do your best to win.

Incorrect. I find great joy in playing (some) games suboptimally, because often suboptimal strategies can be more interesting. There's a fun to optimising, but there's also a fun to doing something wacky and unexpected. It varies up the game and prevents it from being more of the same. I'm not necessarily saying any of that applies to Mafia, but playing suboptimally is not just for playing against children.

Playing suboptimally in a team game (and this is one) is really bad, as most people expect and act based on the supposition everyone on the team will try to play optimally.

[Vecna]

cross-post. bah

Maybe I should just change my mind on this to make a clear statement once and for all that all setups should either be closed or vanilla.

I have no real idea how you find this way of playing the game fun Xorxes

The fun for me is in finding scum. I don't believe a massclaim breaks this game, it just improves our chances of finding scum. It forces scum to make tough decisions early, before they have time to consult with their teammates. I don't really see any fun in playing suboptimally. The only acceptable reason to play a game suboptimally is when you are playing with a child and you want to make it fun for them, so you don't do your best to win.

Incorrect. I find great joy in playing (some) games suboptimally, because often suboptimal strategies can be more interesting. There's a fun to optimising, but there's also a fun to doing something wacky and unexpected. It varies up the game and prevents it from being more of the same. I'm not necessarily saying any of that applies to Mafia, but playing suboptimally is not just for playing against children.

I fully agree with you bob.

Sadly, this was forced upon us, as I do not believe that a great many of the people claiming so far were scum.

Ergo, not going along with it would now give us an even bigger handicap than playing the base game as intended.

Lets just swallow the pill and play it out optimally. We can opt to go along and keep it friendly, or just bicker over it and all be miserable.

Ill now be advocating of just doing this smoothly.

[xorxes]

All mass claim supporters should claim to put pressure on others.

And no, this is not a scummy post, please refer to Nozo and rdr posts.

OK, you can be town for now.

[BobMcBob]

##unvote Xorxes

You clearly havent broken enough setups yet for the novelty to wear off and for it to get boring. There is only opposition and stubborness ahead, and were probably going to end up mislynching some towny today that is flat-out refusing.

Anyways, lets see where this goes. Ill not be the one to be difficult for once (or anymore than I have already).

I claim PR.

Something about this post is really jarring. I don't like it, Vecna seems awfully sheepish suddenly. What convinced you to change your mind from "I'll take my role to the grave!" to this? Town points for Vecna have dropped until I get a decent explanation because this seems an awfully un-Vecna-ish thing to do.

I also claim Gorilla town seeing as nobody else has done so yet.

[BobMcBob]

The dreaded cross-post. Before someone decides to lynch me over it, I've seen Vecna's case, but I still don't like it. Very sudden change for what would normally not be anywhere near large enough to sway him.

[Vecna]

##unvote Xorxes

You clearly havent broken enough setups yet for the novelty to wear off and for it to get boring. There is only opposition and stubborness ahead, and were probably going to end up mislynching some towny today that is flat-out refusing.

Anyways, lets see where this goes. Ill not be the one to be difficult for once (or anymore than I have already).

I claim PR.

Something about this post is really jarring. I don't like it, Vecna seems awfully sheepish suddenly. What convinced you to change your mind from "I'll take my role to the grave!" to this? Town points for Vecna have dropped until I get a decent explanation because this seems an awfully un-Vecna-ish thing to do.

I also claim Gorilla town seeing as nobody else has done so yet.

Because if half the town stubbornly claims, while the other half of the town stubbornly refuses, the only winners in such a situation are scum. They can roleblock and kill all the claimed PRs while town has learned nothing.

Setups like this are inherently flawed. Scum does not have daychat. They can not coordinate on how to handle this properly on day1. I see the town upside to it, but I feel it is a boring and cheesy way to solve the game.

The main point though: having town unity in this will always be better than being divided. I think Xorxes has a fairly strong chance of being town here, so me standing with him and putting the ego aside will give us a larger chance at victory.

[worcej]

I dunno, people tend to keep trying scumreading and voting me (in not insignificant numbers) even when vecna does obvtown me. I guess I just give off that kind of vibe.

I understand your pain. Know I am not really scumming you, if that gives you any sort of joy/happiness.

I'm just scared of someone with a lot more information than me. You could have town read me, and I'd be just the same.

I think Macca is a player who thinks we are talking to him when we are not.

This'll be fun :D

[worcej]

Wow! I rise from my sleep, and already 10 pages to read!
Nice to see some things don't change overnight (like life due to Covid-19!!) - most posts are 1-liners, so I will try find something in nothing...

Did you find anything of merit? I've got a few nuggets out of it at least...

[Donny Dude]

I understand your pain. Know I am not really scumming you, if that gives you any sort of joy/happiness.

I'm just scared of someone with a lot more information than me. You could have town read me, and I'd be just the same.

I think Macca is a player who thinks we are talking to him when we are not.

This'll be fun :D

Macca does seem a bit panicked though, I cannot tell if lost or just paranoia lunging for shadows.
Does seem scummy to me.

[flash2015]

I claim PR