Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[Donny Dude]

I think it was pretty obvious I was biased against a massclaim since the signups Bozo. Trying to convince people its a shit idea and using arguments to get my way had to make place for something else since the whining wasnt going to go away and I felt I probably had already given away that I was a PR anyway.

And yes, VTs need to learn to stfu sometimes and not try to make the game about them when they didnt roll the fun roles for once. Once you make people take a stance, the people that are PRs are -much more likely- to be against it. Which you bloody well know, so unless you can convince me youre town im getting you lynched.

The combination of PTs and these power roles had a lot of opportunities for fun plays this game. All of that is ruined now because people just cannot just play a setup for once the way its intended and have to be tryhard all the time.

Are we just cannon fodder then so prs can figure it out?
So I should contribute nothing and say nothing then?

[Vecna]

Youre misunderstanding my post completely Donny.

It was aimed at Bozo and Damo for forcing people to talk about massclaims and just instantly claiming VT.

[Donny Dude]

Youre misunderstanding my post completely Donny.

It was aimed at Bozo and Damo for forcing people to talk about massclaims and just instantly claiming VT.

Alright Vecna.
Just felt like you were saying that ignoring half of town because prs should be the only ones to enjoy playing the game and that others had nothing to contribute.
I feel your frustration though on Damo as he is rubbing me the wrong way. Bozo I don't have a read on yet.

[Durga]

##unvote Xorxes

You clearly havent broken enough setups yet for the novelty to wear off and for it to get boring. There is only opposition and stubborness ahead, and were probably going to end up mislynching some towny today that is flat-out refusing.

Anyways, lets see where this goes. Ill not be the one to be difficult for once (or anymore than I have already).

I claim PR.

Holy shit you caved so fast for someone who was hard vetoing a mass claim lmao what Vecna

[Durga]

Just because two people had actually claimed doesnt mean there werent a few more advocating for it.

I felt myself get annoyed at Xorxes and Damo. Either I was going to get angry and engage them in a toxic fight and be stubborn and reduce town's odds of getting a positive outcome of this situation where they had already jumped the gun, or just change my mind and help them execute a plan. I think I chose the better option.

Also, there is no need for you to be overly worried about my situation. Im a big boy and I can take care of myself.

HR has a point, I do not know how you went from this:

"Right now, scum is 5/20 players. We increase our odds of lynching scum by 5-8% by sacrificing nearly all PR potential we have. A very bad deal. On top of ruining another mafia game by making it boring."

to this:

"Setups like this are inherently flawed. Scum does not have daychat. They can not coordinate on how to handle this properly on day1. I see the town upside to it, but I feel it is a boring and cheesy way to solve the game."

This kind of inconsistency actually does make me lean town on Vecna tho. I don't see the benefit of doing this as scum.

Btw I'm VT

[xorxes]

I think it was pretty obvious I was biased against a massclaim since the signups Bozo. Trying to convince people its a shit idea and using arguments to get my way had to make place for something else since the whining wasnt going to go away and I felt I probably had already given away that I was a PR anyway.

And yes, VTs need to learn to stfu sometimes and not try to make the game about them when they didnt roll the fun roles for once. Once you make people take a stance, the people that are PRs are -much more likely- to be against it. Which you bloody well know, so unless you can convince me youre town im getting you lynched.

The combination of PTs and these power roles had a lot of opportunities for fun plays this game. All of that is ruined now because people just cannot just play a setup for once the way its intended and have to be tryhard all the time.

Are we just cannon fodder then so prs can figure it out?
So I should contribute nothing and say nothing then?

Is this an indirect VT claim?

[JF1981]

Its not easy joining as a noob and some more experienced players pile in with terminology, votes, the setup of the game is different now to what is was initially (mafia/cops) etc

##vote bozo

no offence but it is just a holding vote until i properly read the 18 pages and make a decision. dont want to miss a vote- can always change it im told

[Donny Dude]

I think it was pretty obvious I was biased against a massclaim since the signups Bozo. Trying to convince people its a shit idea and using arguments to get my way had to make place for something else since the whining wasnt going to go away and I felt I probably had already given away that I was a PR anyway.

And yes, VTs need to learn to stfu sometimes and not try to make the game about them when they didnt roll the fun roles for once. Once you make people take a stance, the people that are PRs are -much more likely- to be against it. Which you bloody well know, so unless you can convince me youre town im getting you lynched.

The combination of PTs and these power roles had a lot of opportunities for fun plays this game. All of that is ruined now because people just cannot just play a setup for once the way its intended and have to be tryhard all the time.

Are we just cannon fodder then so prs can figure it out?
So I should contribute nothing and say nothing then?

Is this an indirect VT claim?

Yes, I am VT.
I should mention that I will be offline for awhile I think, I mentioned this in the signups, but am not sure if I am going yet today.

[rdrivera2005]

I can't say the turn looks good but at the same time I don't see this as something scum!Vecna would do. It ain't his style much, y'know?

I don't see why the turn doesn't look good, could you explain on your own words?

I think Vecna knows that massclaim statistically improves town odds, he just doesn't like massclaims. I feel the same way, I didn't want to push this because I also dislike it, but we can't ignore.

I am townreading Xorxes for pushing this and Vecna for following and to a lesser extent Damo too (just because he claimed VT). Bozo is harder to sort, I don't believe he could not push the massclaim thing even if he is scum, so he is null until now.

[Donny Dude]

Are we just cannon fodder then so prs can figure it out?
So I should contribute nothing and say nothing then?

Is this an indirect VT claim?

Yes, I am VT.
I should mention that I will be offline for awhile I think, I mentioned this in the signups, but am not sure if I am going yet today.

Turns out I am going ,so will leave this here as a bookmark for myself. See you all in the evening pst time.

[xorxes]

Are we just cannon fodder then so prs can figure it out?
So I should contribute nothing and say nothing then?

Is this an indirect VT claim?

Yes, I am VT.
I should mention that I will be offline for awhile I think, I mentioned this in the signups, but am not sure if I am going yet today.

Sigh... In this case I will have to downgrade you to null, because my townread of you was based on something you said making me think you were a PR... That's too bad.

[bozotheclown]

I think it was pretty obvious I was biased against a massclaim since the signups Bozo. Trying to convince people its a shit idea and using arguments to get my way had to make place for something else since the whining wasnt going to go away and I felt I probably had already given away that I was a PR anyway.

And yes, VTs need to learn to stfu sometimes and not try to make the game about them when they didnt roll the fun roles for once. Once you make people take a stance, the people that are PRs are -much more likely- to be against it. Which you bloody well know, so unless you can convince me youre town im getting you lynched.

The combination of PTs and these power roles had a lot of opportunities for fun plays this game. All of that is ruined now because people just cannot just play a setup for once the way its intended and have to be tryhard all the time.

1. I do not base my decision on the value of a mass claim on whether I am a PR or VT.

2. In my opinion VT is the best role.

3. There are 8 PRs, most are going to have an opportunity to use their role to contribute.

[worcej]

Are you serious? why would we prefer scum to kill two townies at a time and give up our shot at lynching scum?

Why not - let a few days run off and remove 3 town pairs. It'll be 8-5 at that point.

Really? Why would this be good for Town? Worcej scum-slipped by following this bait and burying himself with it.

##Unvote
##vote Worcej

Wait, so you think I am that bad at scum to slip on something like this?

*slow clap*

Great hunting skills Bismarck. You cracked your case alright...

[bozotheclown]

PR: xorxes, Vecna, flash, emc
VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny

[bozotheclown]

Right, so forcing our PR's to expose themselves (minus a letter for some of them) is worth it for 8 clears and 12 unknowns?

If you're willing to do that, why don't we just no lynch and claim our buddies? Scum can slowly pick off two of us and narrow down the pool that way instead.

I assume this is a joke.

Also, bozo is feeling extremely tone-dead and is likely scum this game

Can you explain this comment? Do you think this was a legitimate strategy worcej was suggesting?

[worcej]

We know there are 10 buddy pairs, of which most likely 4 contain a scum (assumes one is S-S, the rest are S-T)

Not sure if worcej being so careless with these numbers means he is more likely town or scum. I'm leaning town.

Interesting...I lean scum. Worcej is way too cunning. He was trying to fuel the massclaim car by making it sound better...

Where did I fuel a massclaim? Was it these posts?

I hate mass claims, first and foremost, so take that into consideration as I address this:

I imagine we will generate a group of people claiming PR, which will be higher than 8, and also a group of non-PRs, forcing the lynches in the non-PR group as the scum kill off PR players.

This situation reminds me of the Kitsune game - where we had people claim PR or not-PR. I intentionally claimed PR as a scum GF to try to muddy the waters. My gut says 2/5 'dirty boys' will claim PR to hide out in as they slowly thin the town PR claims.

I hate mass claims, first and foremost, so take that into consideration as I address this:

I imagine we will generate a group of people claiming PR, which will be higher than 8, and also a group of non-PRs, forcing the lynches in the non-PR group as the scum kill off PR players.

This situation reminds me of the Kitsune game - where we had people claim PR or not-PR. I intentionally claimed PR as a scum GF to try to muddy the waters. My gut says 2/5 'dirty boys' will claim PR to hide out in as they slowly thin the town PR claims.

If we claim the exact role they can't do that. Only the Doc A and B should claim only Doc to have a 50/50 to not be roleblocked.

Right, so forcing our PR's to expose themselves (minus a letter for some of them) is worth it for 8 clears and 12 unknowns?

If you're willing to do that, why don't we just no lynch and claim our buddies? Scum can slowly pick off two of us and narrow down the pool that way instead.

I already stated in the signups I would hardveto a massclaim. So lets not waste 30 pages discussing the merits abd just play proper mafia instead of what the setup

Agreed.

If you're going to try to put words in my mouth, please do better next time.

[worcej]

I assume this is a joke.

Also, bozo is feeling extremely tone-dead and is likely scum this game

Can you explain this comment? Do you think this was a legitimate strategy worcej was suggesting?

Better question now that I see this: bozo, do you think I was actually pitching a legit strategy?

[worcej]

"When a player is sent home, their full role will not be revealed. Their alignment (dirty/clean) will be revealed, but their powers (if they have any) will not be revealed."

This is why we should mass claim PR or VT D1. Depending on how many players claim PR, we can decide the best time for PRs to claim their exact role to quickly eliminate any scum claiming PR.

Again - scum are going to spread out. You will have 10-ish PR's and 10-ish VTs. What do you do with that information as town?

[worcej]

True, I forgot the no role reveal. But I think scum will also not know what roles the NK had, so it will be hard for them to claim a PR.

I hate mass claims, first and foremost, so take that into consideration as I address this:

I imagine we will generate a group of people claiming PR, which will be higher than 8, and also a group of non-PRs, forcing the lynches in the non-PR group as the scum kill off PR players.

This situation reminds me of the Kitsune game - where we had people claim PR or not-PR. I intentionally claimed PR as a scum GF to try to muddy the waters. My gut says 2/5 'dirty boys' will claim PR to hide out in as they slowly thin the town PR claims.

The more scum claiming PR, the better.

Explain why? If all 5 claim PR, you have 13 people to sort out.

The only way it's 'better' is you start forcing people to actually claim their roles, which gives scum the ability to game the PR's with their switches and kills to neutralize abilities.

[worcej]

I hate mass claims, first and foremost, so take that into consideration as I address this:

I imagine we will generate a group of people claiming PR, which will be higher than 8, and also a group of non-PRs, forcing the lynches in the non-PR group as the scum kill off PR players.

This situation reminds me of the Kitsune game - where we had people claim PR or not-PR. I intentionally claimed PR as a scum GF to try to muddy the waters. My gut says 2/5 'dirty boys' will claim PR to hide out in as they slowly thin the town PR claims.

If we claim the exact role they can't do that. Only the Doc A and B should claim only Doc to have a 50/50 to not be roleblocked.

The A and B roles are not informed if they are A or B.

How do you know this?