MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

There is a remote, outside, insane alternative that Chaqa is Jack. Maybe his whole "I am Jekyll" claim D1 was an attempt to signal to the outside controller as the controller would know that he was in fact not Jekyll/Hyde. The controller knows that I am Jekyll thus that would act as a signal to that controller. As the game progressed, Chaqa could drop the ruse and claim he was lying. And Jack/hyde can win together.

I don't know, it's pretty crazy and that isn't meant as an insult to your gambit if that is indeed what you did Chaqa, but you would have to have known that the real Jekyll wouldn't allow for ongoing deaths every odd night. I don't think you would do this as Jack; I don't know who would do this. That leaves the only option as you being a mafia role who set yourself up to try to take out the day doctor.

I guess you thought it was a decent trade at first. You didn't count on someone actually using the role to mitigate your team and potentially the other team so well I reckon. :D

So now you are caught in a situation where your team failed to impact any status quo change N1 and your claim failed. Thus, basically your entire gambit is ruined and with it potentially your team's chance at success.

That plan just doesn't make any sense. I am completely lost as to why you're counter-claiming me. If you go back, I made a post thinking your arrogant-know-all and know-better-than-thy and such was you pretending to be Sherlock Holmes, or softing Sherlock. I even called you Mr. Holmes.

I can't fathom why you're now trying to get me lynched unless you're mafia, but I don't know why either mafia team would take a 1-for-1 against Jekyll.

So... what gives? Why are you doing this?

[BunnyGo]

I didn’t think to mention the message that Hyde didn’t kill because it was obvious that no one died. Come on now, you can do better than that, ND.

If I were fake claiming, why wouldn’t Hyde have just killed ME?

ND is full of crap.

Did you get targeted last night?

[BunnyGo]

##vote chaqa

##end

##CALL GM

If Jeckyl uses his powers during the day, does the effect say even if he gets lynched?

##CALL GM bumping this question

[Chaqa]

I didn’t think to mention the message that Hyde didn’t kill because it was obvious that no one died. Come on now, you can do better than that, ND.

If I were fake claiming, why wouldn’t Hyde have just killed ME?

ND is full of crap.

Did you get targeted last night?

Can you be more specific?

My best bet is that Hyde targeted me, which was protected by my self-heal. As to why he would do this... I have no idea.

[Chaqa]

##vote chaqa

##end

##CALL GM

If Jeckyl uses his powers during the day, does the effect say even if he gets lynched?

##CALL GM bumping this question

He answered, and it does not.

LIkewise, I couldn't be roleblocked from my save because I used it literally a few hours into Day 1.

[dargorygel]

I didn’t think to mention the message that Hyde didn’t kill because it was obvious that no one died. Come on now, you can do better than that, ND.

If I were fake claiming, why wouldn’t Hyde have just killed ME?

ND is full of crap.

Not done reading... But no, Hyde would not care about a fakeclaim

[Chaqa]

I'm going to take a few hours and relax. Let's get more people on to weigh in and wait for the inevitable secon counter-claim, because that would be hilarious.

Also - am I the only one who had no idea Jack's kill was even-nights? I completely missed that.

[Chaqa]

I also want to point out that ND's claim is:
1. I'm lying about my role
2. Mafia Team 1 AND 2 decided to kill him, MEANWHILE:
3. Mafia Team 2 decided to ROLEBLOCK him

He is AWFULLY full of himself.

[BunnyGo]

Conversely, anyone voting ND or Chaqa right now is FUCKING STUPID.

Hyde doesn’t kill N2. Make the scum sort that shit out.

Sorry, what?

You don't want to see one of them flip sooner rather than later? You don't care to figure out why one is lying?

I mean, in general we have 6/21 odds of finding a scum. Right now, I give it 1/2 between them. And the other is Jeckyl that many (INCLUDING BOTH CHAQ AND ND) believe is no big loss to town to lose.

[worcej]

I didn’t think to mention the message that Hyde didn’t kill because it was obvious that no one died. Come on now, you can do better than that, ND.

If I were fake claiming, why wouldn’t Hyde have just killed ME?

ND is full of crap.

I have no idea why Hyde did not kill last night. I'm not the outside controller. All I know is that he did not.

I seriously don't know what game you are playing man. But, it's over for you and you must realize that. If I am lynched today all you do is take my day doc save that I can't use on myself today out of the equation. That is a minor victory for your team, sure, but you sacrifice yourself to do it. Either you are a useless mafia role and set yourself up solely for this task or you have completely stumbled into a no-win situation.

You would have to know the real Jekyll would claim before D3 because even though the day save is powerful as I have already demonstrated it's not worth potentially losing another town player every odd night with the multitude of potential kills that can happen.

This Night Kill can NOT be withheld

Hyde must order a NightKill, so the fact that he didn't successfully kill anyone simply means that his target was commuted or saved.

Actually. Two more interesting things I'm noticing about the J/H role now I'm poring over it.

##Call GM

In the case of a Roleblock, I note that Jekyll can order his heal in the day phase prior to the night phase and it will apply for the subsequent night phase as well.

I see the order of actions each phase.

1. Will a roleblock have any impact on the heal action if the heal action is executed one phase earlier (ie, in the previous day phase)?

2. Will a roleblock on Hyde prevent Hyde's night kill? This is another possible explanation for last night's tranquility.

GM Response:

1. The Jekyll Heal is a day action, so any RB will not effect it since the action already happened.

2. Yes. Since Hyde is Jekyll, any RB on Jekyll will RB Hyde.

[DemonRHK]

My hot take on the J&H claims is either

A) Chaqa is the strongman

Or

B) ND is the team 2 goon

And (A) fits the current narrative better.

Regardless, still voting frost. Gonna ride or die this tunnel atm.

[BunnyGo]

##vote chaqa

##end

##CALL GM

If Jeckyl uses his powers during the day, does the effect say even if he gets lynched?

##CALL GM bumping this question

##HANGUP GM I saw the answer. Thanks.

[BunnyGo]

I didn’t think to mention the message that Hyde didn’t kill because it was obvious that no one died. Come on now, you can do better than that, ND.

If I were fake claiming, why wouldn’t Hyde have just killed ME?

ND is full of crap.

Did you get targeted last night?

Can you be more specific?

My best bet is that Hyde targeted me, which was protected by my self-heal. As to why he would do this... I have no idea.

Ummm...that's pretty stupid. More likely Hyde caught a commuter or the other doctor's heal worked. I'm still waiting for anyone to claim they were saved.

But you got no messages that someone tried to NK you? Your self-heal wasn't used?

[xorxes]

I can't fathom why you're now trying to get me lynched unless you're mafia, but I don't know why either mafia team would take a 1-for-1 against Jekyll.

That's what's so baffling. Town was quite ready to lynch Jekyll soon enough, so why is one of you sacrificing yourself to lynch someone that was probably going to be an easy lynch anyway?

[ND]

Luckily the roleblock doesn't affect the day save which makes it a valuable power because it must occur before the roleblock in the order of GM adjudication of night powers. Either way, I was roleblocked but it didn't affect my day save I put on myself when I started my lightning rod opening.

Anyway, counterclaim days suck. I've been in several before. It sucks when you are in that spot whether you are being honest about your role or you have to lie and pretend your something your not. Chaqa is doing fine. He is in an impossible situation. I'm sure he will be happy if he gets me lynched. He succeeds in making the trade -his life for mine and ending the potential my role has to protect people-. But, really the role has just as much potential to kill townies as save them so I'm fine with it too. If I get lynched first fine, you got me, but all you got was a role that does as much harm as good and we weaken your team Chaqa by 1/3 anyway. You know, as well as I do, that they will lynch you 100% guaranteed D3 if you get me today. Your death to your team hurts your team way more than it hurts mine. I am fine with it.

The best thing, I reckon, about this CC day is that a) it's early b) we lynched mafia D1 and I mitigated most or everything N1 c) the only thing lost here is a the day doc/odd night potential killer, d) a mafia certainly dies either D2 or D3 because of this.

[BunnyGo]

I have no idea why Hyde did not kill last night. I'm not the outside controller. All I know is that he did not.

I seriously don't know what game you are playing man. But, it's over for you and you must realize that. If I am lynched today all you do is take my day doc save that I can't use on myself today out of the equation. That is a minor victory for your team, sure, but you sacrifice yourself to do it. Either you are a useless mafia role and set yourself up solely for this task or you have completely stumbled into a no-win situation.

You would have to know the real Jekyll would claim before D3 because even though the day save is powerful as I have already demonstrated it's not worth potentially losing another town player every odd night with the multitude of potential kills that can happen.

This Night Kill can NOT be withheld

Hyde must order a NightKill, so the fact that he didn't successfully kill anyone simply means that his target was commuted or saved.

Actually. Two more interesting things I'm noticing about the J/H role now I'm poring over it.

##Call GM

In the case of a Roleblock, I note that Jekyll can order his heal in the day phase prior to the night phase and it will apply for the subsequent night phase as well.

I see the order of actions each phase.

1. Will a roleblock have any impact on the heal action if the heal action is executed one phase earlier (ie, in the previous day phase)?

2. Will a roleblock on Hyde prevent Hyde's night kill? This is another possible explanation for last night's tranquility.

GM Response:

1. The Jekyll Heal is a day action, so any RB will not effect it since the action already happened.

2. Yes. Since Hyde is Jekyll, any RB on Jekyll will RB Hyde.

If Hyde is RB, does he not get to stabby stabby, choke, choke, throttle, and kill?

[xorxes]

I didn’t think to mention the message that Hyde didn’t kill because it was obvious that no one died. Come on now, you can do better than that, ND.

If I were fake claiming, why wouldn’t Hyde have just killed ME?

ND is full of crap.

Did you get targeted last night?

Can you be more specific?

My best bet is that Hyde targeted me, which was protected by my self-heal. As to why he would do this... I have no idea.

What? What did your EON PM say?

[BunnyGo]

My hot take on the J&H claims is either

A) Chaqa is the strongman

Or

B) ND is the team 2 goon

And (A) fits the current narrative better.

Regardless, still voting frost. Gonna ride or die this tunnel atm.

Sorry, what? You think you have an either or on a scum, and you aren't going to flip one?

[DemonRHK]

Conversely, anyone voting ND or Chaqa right now is FUCKING STUPID.

Hyde doesn’t kill N2. Make the scum sort that shit out.

Sorry, what?

You don't want to see one of them flip sooner rather than later? You don't care to figure out why one is lying?

I mean, in general we have 6/21 odds of finding a scum. Right now, I give it 1/2 between them. And the other is Jeckyl that many (INCLUDING BOTH CHAQ AND ND) believe is no big loss to town to lose.

You’re advocating risking a mislynch of a town or in a multimafia game. The lying member is a member of one of those teams, and conversely can’t harm town until N3. There is not a reason to waste a lynch when it isn’t needed yet. Shit, I said day one jekell and Hyde was A day three lynch

In addition, if kills happen N2, and we send the guilty party to the rope, they will have the option (dear both scum teams, hear me out) of revealing who their team killed to town to try to help catch the other scumteam.

[xorxes]

I didn’t think to mention the message that Hyde didn’t kill because it was obvious that no one died. Come on now, you can do better than that, ND.

If I were fake claiming, why wouldn’t Hyde have just killed ME?

ND is full of crap.

Not done reading... But no, Hyde would not care about a fakeclaim

I agree, they would not especially care.