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Fuck it ##vote yavuz

VashtaNeurotic wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:02 pm

Wait how would a true watcher know yavuz is telling the truth? They would only know RHK is lying.

Because if RHK is lying, Yavuz has to be telling the truth. Otherwise Scum RHK is giving his life to kill Scum Yavuz. That would be delightful But the likelihood of that is quite close to zero.

Foxcastle wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:02 pm

At 7:11 to go, Yavuz claimed after Tham voted him (moving off Mean), putting the wagons at 2 rdr, 2 Mea, 1 ND, 1 yav

Ah, sorry, I thought MLQ was well in the lead all day until these shenanigans.

I mean yavuz claimed after the fact. But the only reason yavuz's claim makes sense when he was under no threat of lynch and there is still a miller about is to make a claim to throw us off the scent of a mafia, which tells me he is likely stalker with ND as a miller.

@Balki
I am of the opinion that watcher is more valuable than cop in this setup with godfather and millers, so I would rather we stop this PR Hunting.

WATCHER: If we are about to lynch Yavuz, and you exist, and you know DemonRHK is fake claiming, obviously come forward to save cop. In that case, we'll still have Nurse, Watcher, and Cop going into the night, and we're probably better off having you guys in plain sight so that you can protect each other and Yavuz can keep getting scans off. There will only be 2 scum left in any event, and one of them is probably ND.

VashtaNeurotic wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:06 pm

I mean yavuz claimed after the fact. But the only reason yavuz's claim makes sense when he was under no threat of lynch and there is still a miller about is to make a claim to throw us off the scent of a mafia, which tells me he is likely stalker with ND as a miller.

Well his major motivation would be to get the real Cop to surface. I think the most likely scenario is that mafia decided to sacrifice Yavuz to out Cop. As they were going to lose if Cop stayed hidden for much longer. But Yavuz made a serious mistake in faking a claim that DemonRHK could counterfeit.

D3 Vote Count 3.0

ND (7): yavuzovic, Maniac, thamrick, reedeer1, rdrivera2005, Foxcastle, bozotheclown
yavuzovic (6): DemonRHK, bo_sox48, Tom Bombadil, ND, Balki Bartokomous, VashtaNeurotic
bozotheclown (1): MeanLaQueefa

Not voted (1): captainmeme

End votes (1/8): DemonRHK

captainmeme has not made the required two posts.

Currently ND is set to be lynched!

You have 50 minutes remaining.

@Balki... Unless Yavuz is actually the Cop...

reedeer1 wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:06 pm

@Balki
I am of the opinion that watcher is more valuable than cop in this setup with godfather and millers, so I would rather we stop this PR Hunting.

???

PR Hunting? We have a fake-claiming PR already. Don't we have to find out who is real and who is fake? If we don't, Nurse does not know who to protect, Watcher does not know who to watch, Scum get to kill the real claimer.

Foxcastle wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:10 pm

@Balki... Unless Yavuz is actually the Cop...

Well, if Yavuz is the true Cop, wouldn't the true watcher prevent us from lynching true Cop? I think that's a worthwhile trade to out the Watcher in order to keep our Cop alive and catch 2 scum! (ND and Demon). Then the game is almost over, and Nurse and Watcher will likely keep Cop alive for 2 more scans at least.

I feel like we are almost in auto-win territory here.

Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:12 pm

Foxcastle wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:10 pm

@Balki... Unless Yavuz is actually the Cop...

Well, if Yavuz is the true Cop, wouldn't the true watcher prevent us from lynching true Cop? I think that's a worthwhile trade to out the Watcher in order to keep our Cop alive and catch 2 scum! (ND and Demon). Then the game is almost over, and Nurse and Watcher will likely keep Cop alive for 2 more scans at least.

We can't know what the Watcher is thinking, and or that they're even around to have seen that argument, or that it would convince them if they are.

Foxcastle wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:13 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:12 pm

Foxcastle wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:10 pm

@Balki... Unless Yavuz is actually the Cop...

Well, if Yavuz is the true Cop, wouldn't the true watcher prevent us from lynching true Cop? I think that's a worthwhile trade to out the Watcher in order to keep our Cop alive and catch 2 scum! (ND and Demon). Then the game is almost over, and Nurse and Watcher will likely keep Cop alive for 2 more scans at least.

We can't know what the Watcher is thinking, and or that they're even around to have seen that argument, or that it would convince them if they are.

I suppose.

You don't think we need to resolve who is fake claiming right now?

@MLQ, what do you think we should do?

@Balki, I think we will resolve fakeclaiming if Yavuz or ND are lynched, but if we choose wrong, I'd prefer to lynch ND with his VT/Miller claim over Yavuz with his Cop claim.

@Balki - how can we set up our PRs to protect each other without rendering them useless or leaving at least one exposed to NK?

If you feel like this will give information to scum by discussing it, feel free to not. I'm assuming they can do basic case breakdown though.

I'm expressing my doubt, especially given that we have a risk of losing Cop or Watcher through this plan, and that there's a mafia RB still. Even if we still have all 3, there isn't a way that at least one of them isn't vulnerable. Go through all the scenarios. We also can't openly discuss which order we're going to use our PRs to protect each other or scum will be able to find the counter. And we'd likely have to out all of those PRs just so they'd know who to cover.

While I agree ND flipping scum/miller doesn't make the RHK/Yav question crystal clear, it does shed light onto it.

If ND flips scum (first of all, stop. Great! We've found a scum!) or miller, RHK is likely scum. Even if he's town and we shoot/mislynch him the next day, we still know Yav is scum. He also would get an extra night of being able to watch.

If we don't flip ND now, no matter the outcome, we're still not sure what ND is.
-If we lynch Yav and he's Cop, ND still could be miller or scum. RHK is lying so we lynch him.
-If we lynch Yav and he's not Cop, it doesn't answer whether ND is scum or not. RHK could still be scum though unlikely. We still don't know ND's alignment.

-If we lynch RHK and he's Watcher, we know Yav lied. Lynch him. Doesn't tell us anything about ND.
-If RHK isn't Watcher, we believe Yav and kill ND, but he still could be miller.

*I see lots of posts since I started this one. I'll read and add to this. But tl;dr I believe Balki is wrong because we can't protect all our PRs and shouldn't out them anyways

reedeer1 wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:06 pm

@Balki
I am of the opinion that watcher is more valuable than cop in this setup with godfather and millers, so I would rather we stop this PR Hunting.

+1

I've only been able to read on a 10 minute break from work, so I may have missed some things cause I couldn't read everything. I think RHK's claim is more believable than yav's, as I said before, it doesn't benefit cop to claim like he did. Also watcher is protecting our townclears, even if we have the nurse guard our cop, he ceases being useful because of the role block, so watcher > cop. So ##vote yav.

You guys have time to break the tie, but I think lynching yav is the right move here.

Also the sweet ND info as others have pointed out. If you want to ask me questions, I have like 2 mins lol