Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[rdrivera2005]

@rdrivera - what do you make of reedeer's recent RB claim? If true, it would mean that the Nurse would know that one of Balki/reedeer is a townclear

I don't know what to do with the claim. I was thinking Nurse could have protected himself D1 (I think it's possible and did it as Doc last game). Claiming RB now is weird and if he was under pressure it will be scummy, but he claimed after a town clear put him as sure town. So, I tend to believe on him.
On the other side, I can't see why either nurse or Hooker will choose Reedeer as N1 target.
I did a reread of EOD 1 after Tom message and have to agree that Reedeer don't look bad on it. But he just said he didn't see my vote so the same logic Tom applied to me (that I could have voted thinking Jamiet won't be lynched) could be applied to him.
So, I really don't know, I will have to reconsider some things. Right now ##vote Mean

[thamrick]

The wording of the Nurse role makes it seem like they cant visit themself. It would be weird because of the roleblock I'm guessing. If the Nurse is roleblock, the save is prevented.

To make sure though...

##CALL GM - Can the Nurse visit themself?

[thamrick]

Yeah. While I don't necessarily see the benefits of not coming forward with it D2, I tend to believe him until we've exhausted other avenues. I can see the merit of his point that it could potentially have kept the Nurse hidden if it was a Nurse save attempt.

So that means the if the Nurse also believes the RB claim, they know which one of Balki/reedeer is a townclear.

[bozotheclown]

@rdrivera:

Here is the first time I could find you addressing reedeer on the subject, and it occurred during D2: "I find a bit weird Reedeer follow my vote in both days even scumreading me."

[rdrivera2005]

Yeah. While I don't necessarily see the benefits of not coming forward with it D2, I tend to believe him until we've exhausted other avenues. I can see the merit of his point that it could potentially have kept the Nurse hidden if it was a Nurse save attempt.

So that means the if the Nurse also believes the RB claim, they know which one of Balki/reedeer is a townclear.

There is no town clear in this case. Nurse will know who he visited but not if he is town or scum and the other one could have been RBed by Mafia or could be Mafia faking it.

[rdrivera2005]

@rdrivera:

Here is the first time I could find you addressing reedeer on the subject, and it occurred during D2: "I find a bit weird Reedeer follow my vote in both days even scumreading me."

Exactly, if we both are scum I would have talked with him at night, not in the main thread. If I were scum I will not want to draw attention to this.

[bozotheclown]

reedeer's following you did not become a pattern until D2, so maybe you wanted to point it out yourself before someone else called attention to it.

[rdrivera2005]

reedeer's following you did not become a pattern until D2, so maybe you wanted to point it out yourself before someone else called attention to it.

He followed me twice on D1. If we were both scum I will have talked with her at the QT for sure. But fine, keep scumreading us both if you want, at this point I have nothing more to say about it.

[thamrick]

@Vashta - not sure when you'll see this, but I've got some questions for you when you get around to it.

I get why you're voting me. That's fine if you can't find a better lynch. I take it you still don't believe my RB claim from D2 (Maniac has now claimed a RB as a confirmed VT so that's a pretty safe assumption Nurse save)? If so, can you explain why?

Regardless, you're relatively far down my list of likely scum candidates, especially now knowing that Yav was VT and Rj was scum. The only explanation I would have for the Yav wagon not getting ANY votes at EoD if you and Rj are both scum is that the mafia members weren't online, but it seems more likely that you're town.

D2 you posted that Bo said some weird things about the gun claims. What exactly did you find weird? Do you still have suspicions about Bo?

In your most recent posts, you say one could argue that scum would have voted for ND yesterday. I'd like to hear what you mean by that. Do you think it's likely that all 3 of the remaining scum were voting for ND? Or were they split up?

[Hellenic Riot]

##GM Note: The Nurse cannot self-save, because by roleblocking itself it would stop itself from being able to save itself. Itself. Paradoxes aren't allowed.

[DemonRHK]

Exactly, if we both are scum I would have talked with him at night, not in the main thread. If I were scum I will not want to draw attention to this.

He followed me twice on D1. If we were both scum I will have talked with her at the QT for sure. But fine, keep scumreading us both if you want, at this point I have nothing more to say about it.

rd/Mean/??? maybe?

[thamrick]

I'm guessing English is rdrivera's 2nd language so I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from pronoun usage.

[thamrick]

Especially since he's referring to reedeer both times.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Huh, thought more would have happened today. No one else scum reads balki huh? It seems so painfully obvious to me, that makes me sad. I gave balki 8 points to respond to, he responded to 2 of them and they were ones he already talked about. Then he literally just started spouting "fake news" and "alternative facts" like an idiot who is obviously trying to not answer. You're all being dumb sitting around circle jerking about how towny redeer seems and aren't even trying to figure this game out.

Balki, explain to me why you scum read bo and yav at the same time before yav and ND flipped? Bo seemed like he wanted yav dead awful bad, and you scum reading yav so hard while also scum reading his biggest accuser, this doesn't add up. Also why did you feel the need to push me before you knew yav or ND's alignment and say that yav was drawing attention away from me?

Tham, I would read balki's interaction with demon day 1 differently if I found out demon was scum. However, I have many other reasons to scum read balki besides his interaction with demon, that was just the first thing that tipped me off balki was scum. So my overall read of balki wouldn't change.

For serious though guys, the second I flip and you see I'm town, you MUST lynch balki, no excuses, he is scum.

I won't be on at EoD again tomorrow because of work. I'll see if I can check in on a break again, but if I end up getting lynched, you have to kill balki next.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Huh, thought more would have happened today. No one else scum reads balki huh? It seems so painfully obvious to me, that makes me sad. I gave balki 8 points to respond to, he responded to 2 of them and they were ones he already talked about. Then he literally just started spouting "fake news" and "alternative facts" like an idiot who is obviously trying to not answer.

I don't believe this is a fair or true recap.

Balki, explain to me why you scum read bo and yav at the same time before yav and ND flipped?

Sure. I scumread Yavuz because he claimed cop with a guilty on ND, and then ND flipped Vanilla Townie. I scumread Bo based on his interactions with RJ and his change in attitude from Night 1, where he scumread RJ at a time when RJ was not in danger, to early Day 2, where he sort of goes through the motions to interact with RJ, but it looks like a couple of guys doing a do-si-do.

For example, this is Bo on RJ on Night 1:

People that get bothered this easily are really bad at hiding their scum traits, and Rjmcf is bad at hiding his scum traits. Particularly, his idea for a town leader is something that newbie scum go for all the time because it takes the responsibility off of their shoulders and puts it on someone else’s and him trying to backpedal away from what he said is hilariously bad. Sheeping a “leader” works on EM but not here. That said, I don’t see any argument for him being coached, at least not so far.

And here is a sort of passing glance between the two on Day 2:

brainbomb - town but not GS. He's got good thought processes and good pressure, but I've heard he has a habit for early and fake PR claims.

Wow, Rj, quite insightful. Who told you that? Can you link us to the QT for verification purposes?

Yeah sure, here you go.

I will assume brainbomb is not really the gunsmith unless he gives a good reason for claiming it. I just want to point out to the new and almost new players that brainbomb is known for fake PR claims, so there is no reason to counterclaim gunsmith.

Oh wait that was here. whoops.

You really have to go read the whole start of Day 2 in context to see this. But, et me tell you -- that's not Town Bo with a scumread. It just isn't. This reads to me like Bo is afraid to apply pressure here, and I can understand that if Bo is on the Scumteam and feels a little insecure about the RJ part of the team.

So, those are the reasons I scumread Yavuz and Bo.

You seem to think that it is so dumb to scumread both Bo and Yavuz at this time, that no Townie could actually believe that. Is that your argument?

Bo seemed like he wanted yav dead awful bad, and you scum reading yav so hard while also scum reading his biggest accuser, this doesn't add up.

Sure it adds up. Bo is a veteran. And Bo is kind of a jerk. Yavuz claimed Cop and then got counterfeited. If Bo and Yavuz were on the same scum team, I would expect Bo to bus there 100% of the time. One Hundred Percent. These two positions were not inconsistent at all.

Also why did you feel the need to push me before you knew yav or ND's alignment and say that yav was drawing attention away from me?

Because I believe you are scum, and you keep avoiding a lynch. I don't want you to wriggle away. I want us to lynch you and win the game.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I'll also note: I feel a little bad about beating the lynch MLQ drum all game in your first game here. I think you're a strong player, and I hope you play again here. I'd love to see how you play as Town.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Thanks balki, and thank you for answering those questions. I don't want to come off that I'm against you as a person, I'm not at all, I just really really think you're scum, respect to you for fooling people so well. I can see why brain said you were good as scum, you even had me second guessing myself for a while.

Also, this is how I play town, remember that for next time.

[Balki Bartokomous]

So what else?

Why else am I scum?

It seems like your Balki read is based on:

(1) A false interpretation of my interaction with DemonRHK -- I said I found him sincere and townie, and you're saying I'm scum for that because I was trying to set up a Demon lynch?

(2) Your suggestion that it was inconsistent to scumread Bo and Yavuz at a time when it made perfect sense to read both Bo and Yavuz as scum. I'll betcha Thamrock scumread Bo and Yavuz both as scum on Night 3 as well -- is he so dumn that he has to be scum too?

(3) The fact that I have continually advocated for your lynch since around Day 2 when I made the judgement that you are most likely to flip scum.

(4) The fact that I pushed a Jamiet lynch all Day 1 even though, in your opinion, Jamiet was not a viable lynch Day 1.

I don't believe these are your true impressions. I believe you are manufacturing this process and you came up with a read you wanted to have early on, and you've just been grabbing anything that has happened since, looking for a potential scum motivation without weighing the likelihood against Town narratives, and then glomming it on to your Frankenstein's Monster of a case.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Thanks balki, and thank you for answering those questions. I don't want to come off that I'm against you as a person, I'm not at all, I just really really think you're scum, respect to you for fooling people so well. I can see why brain said you were good as scum, you even had me second guessing myself for a while.

Also, this is how I play town, remember that for next time.

No follow-up? You still hold the opinion that it was inconsistent to read Bo and Yavuz both as scum on Night 3? Why?

[Balki Bartokomous]

I don't want to come off that I'm against you as a person, I'm not at all, I just really really think you're scum

I think that you decided you wanted to read me as scum before you had evidence. And you've just been trying to put everything you see in the "that proves Balki is scum" rhetorical box ever since.

It started with my interaction with DemonRHK. You saw me ask him a question and then back off, so you thought: "pushing someone a little and then stopping -- I can say Balki is scum for that." But you didn't even look closely at the interaction or the fact that I read DemonRHK as town in that moment and ever since.

Then I started pushing Jamiet as Scum when nobody else was pushing Jamiet. So you thought "I can say he is Scum for pushing a wagon that will never flip, all while protecting my teammate and keeping Town from joining that wagon." Then the wagon actually flipped -- and it proved I was right! But you still kept up your narrative.

Now you come out with this "Bo was pushing a Yavuz lynch and Balki read both Yavuz and Bo as scum, so Balki must be scum argument. And when you here from me, and I'm sure others, that Scum Bo would 100% bus his counterfeited fake claiming teammate there, meaning a Bo/Yavuz scum team made perfect sense, that too will not impact your read. You're just going to look for the next thing, and throw it into your rhetorical box too.

This is what a manufactured process looks like. It's hard to respond to new facts when your read is not based on facts at all.