Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[reedeer1]

For reasons stated before

##Vote Rd

[Tom Bombadil]

ugh. I feel dirty. rivera - come explain to Maniac why you aren't scum.

[rdrivera2005]

What can I do Tom. I already explained that is stupid to Godfather to buss on the first two days. I tried to figure things out and if I didn't do more is because of the little available time I have.

What piss me most if I end lynched today is the way it's happening, both town clears voting me, people will just jump on it and blame the clears, it's nonsense. I can build a big wall of text explaining again my votes all days, but I have done this before.

But I think I can use my time better doing some re-reading. If someone have questions I will be online most of the afternoon, just not all time here, but will check eventually while using the bot.

[Tom Bombadil]

@everyone:

Why do you think bo_sox would be voting and pushing a case on rdrivera days 3 and 4?

[Tom Bombadil]

Hey Balki:

Whatever happened to:

"Have to review, but I feel like Yoyo outed himself in the last ten minutes there."

No follow up on that? You've moved onto Foxy now. What happened to convince yourself that Yoyo didn't out himself?

[Foxcastle]

Everything we need is in one post:

Day One Vote Count 5.1

ND (6): snowy801, bozotheclown, Rjmcf, Foxcastle, thamrick, Balki Bartokomous
Balki Bartokomous (5): MeanLaQueefa, yavuzovic, Maniac, VashtaNeurotic, Jamiet99uk
Jamiet99uk (4): , DemonRHK,brainbomb, ND, rdrivera2005
DemonRHK (2): Tom Bombadil, Ezio
Ezio (1): reedeer1
brainbomb (1): bo_sox48
yavuzovic (1): dargorygel

Not voted (1): SuperSteve

Currently ND is set to be lynched. You have 6 minutes remaining.

Look at what know scum are doing. At end of day 1 scum team either want to lynch town or be in a position where they can bus their team mate for town cred. Why weren't Bo, RJ and Jamie all on one Town player or Jamie? I think it's because they see Godfather RdRivera perfectly positioned to be the busser if Jamie does get lynched.

Rdrivera even left himself some wriggle room when he moved on to Jamie in case he wanted to jump off later. 'It's between ND and Jamie'.

RdRivera is our Godfather.

Also worth noting that Rdrivera's quote isn't just what Maniac posted, the full version is "I don't like the Balki wagon, between ND and Jamiet ##vote Jamiet"

I am not sure that the scum team collectively wants or does anything cohesive on Day 1, before they've even been able to discuss. I'd guess Rjm was on ND because he wants to lynch a townie and maybe wasn't confident to bus on his first vote as newbie scum. Bo showed up to the game in a huff three quarters through D1; I think the vote on Brainbomb was just lazy, because an early vote on Brainbomb is pretty safe either way. So I'm hesitant to read too much into either of those votes.

Do we think that experienced scum would be bussin Jamiet this early?
Do we think that Rjm was the only scum on ND at this point?

[Tom Bombadil]

It’s possible experienced scum such as rdrivera would bus thatvearyz
It’s wxtremely unlikely rj was the only scum on ND.

[rdrivera2005]

Like I said, I will waste my time doing something more usefull then defending myself. I have done a full re-reading of Bo, it took some time, so I hope people at least read it.....

BO´s reread
D1:
Voted Brainbomb wiht a shitty justification and told that wasn´t reading the thread. Missed EOD

N1:
Interesting message:

"Given Jamie's flip, I don't believe that Jamie would have ever wagoned onto me before I had ever posted if Foxcastle were his teammate. I'm reasonably confident without reading anything else that Foxcastle is town and it would take a near

scumslip or some obvious evidence of coordination between the two on that vote to change my mind."

Reads N1

​Some reads:

​Town

Fo​xcastle - as I said before, I do not think that Jamie would have bandwagoned onto me if Foxcastle was his teammate. I saw nothing in the thread to indicate otherwise. As far as I’m concerned, clear town.

DemonRHK - “If my post, and the subsequent heat and discussion it's generated gets one less person to lurk, then it's a success.”

Best line of the game. Won’t get beat. So clearly genuine and well intentioned that it might as well be a townslip, and if you disagree then stop reading this post because I don’t care what you think. Tom and Ezio need to convince me that their vote for him on D1 wasn’t just them being stupid and unreasonable. At least brainbomb is scumreading him with an open mind.

Maniac - he is more concerned about the player list being in alphabetical order than he is scumhunting. Classic Maniac. His vote for brainbomb on page 6 is so hilariously bad. Scum Maniac is bad, but he’s conceited; town Maniac on the other hand would love to solve the puzzle but just has no idea how to do it so he just waits until he has a hand to play. Sheeping MeanLaQueefa onto Balki on page 21 rubbed me the wrong way but it felt like Maniac just not giving a shit as opposed to

Maniac trying to skirt around the responsibility of doing something, which means he’s probably town. If yall don’t mislynch him for being a bad townie, maybe he’ll actually be a decent player later in the game once he has some information to trudge through.

Thamrick - high volume poster but not a regular. I would expect him to be a little bit more cautious and to try and backpedal away from drawing major attention to himself if he were scum. Likewise, his vote for ND with 15 minutes to go looks very good if ND is scum.


​Scum

ND - his line of questioning on page 7 is incredibly bland and unthoughtful. His posting on page 17 is even worse than page 7 and despite having 10 more pages of information to play with he continues to same shitty line of questioning that he did before. He has made no effort to analyze. Scum ND doesn’t care to analyze but would rather hide in the shadows and live as long as he can without putting any pressure on his teammates and leaving as little trace of his existence as possible.

He fits his scum meta, which is why yall wanted to lynch him.

There was no major effort to save Jamie on D1. In fact, Jamie didn’t even try to save himself. Jamie was present at the EOD and could have easily claimed PR or at least tried to save himself, but the next guy on the block was ND. Jamie was the item thief, which in my point of view isn’t a terribly useful role in a setup like this one. If ND were town, Jamie would have made an effort to shift the lynch onto him. I think ND is not only scum but possibly the godfather, or at the very least a role that even Jamie thought was important enough to sacrifice himself in order to keep alive, even if only for a few days.

Assuming that that theory holds true, people that bailed on ND late for Jamie look bad. Snowy, yav, and Balki look suspect. Bozo looks good for dropping a vote on him and then being gone, which I don’t think scum would do to an important teammate, and thamrick looks pretty damn good as well for his late vote shifting over to ND and injecting a little bit of life back into his wagon with 15 minutes to go.

Rjmcf - “Dunno if everyone thinks this is obvious and me spelling it out makes me seem even more stupid, but you expecting to get shot makes it sound a whole lot like you’re not the gunsmith? […] Also can someone answer my questions with more than “bork” please? It’s odd for everyone to have in-jokes and the like that new folks aren’t party to. Also feel free to update the fact that when others explained their viewpoint I agreed that handing out a gun first night makes sense.”

People that get bothered this easily are really bad at hiding their scum traits, and Rjmcf is bad at hiding his scum traits. Particularly, his idea for a town leader is something that newbie scum go for all the time because it takes the responsibility off of their shoulders and puts it on someone else’s and him trying to backpedal away from what he said is hilariously bad. Sheeping a “leader” works on EM but not here. That said, I don’t see any argument for him being coached, at least not so far.

Tom Bombadil - his early play going after RHK just read as really contrived to me. There was nothing to gain from using his energy on trying to interrogate RHK for going after lurkers. In fact, he simply missed the point of what RHK was trying to do and yet stood by it all the way through the end of the day. His D1 was terrible and he coasted through the latter half of the day on the back of bad play in the beginning of the day that he knew he wouldn’t have to answer for because he knew

RHK wasn’t a realistic lynch. Curious to see how his play develops.

Yavuzovic - Bussing ND without putting any thought behind it or trying to advance his wagon at all and defending Rjmcf for even less of a reason just rubs me the wrong way. If either or both of ND and Rjmcf flips scum, yavuz needs to go. Maybe he’ll get shot today to save us the guesswork.

Everyone else - null, or I haven't seen anything from you worth caring about.

Bo town list is mainly of confirned townies (Maniac, Tham) and almost confirned (Demon). That leaves Fox as the only option if Bo want to list a fellow scum as a townread.
Bo listed mostly town as scum. He listed ND as scum and targeted him later. RJ was the only scum on the scum list and the others are Tom and Yav (also town).
So, the other two scum are probably on the null list, unless it´s Foxy.

D2:
Voted ND at first minutes.
Weird interaction with RJ witgh contributed a lot for Bo´s lynch later

Interesting message:

@ND … when do you have some spare time to respond to my ham and roast beef sandwich of a case against you?

@MLQ … “His rainbow atrocity read list where he placed maniac at the top looks a lot less scummy now that we know maniac is town. He backed off rd as his top scumread without reason, which is odd for scum to do, they know how that looks.”

This is your read on reedeer. Can you walk me through your logic here? I wholeheartedly disagree with these two conclusions. I don’t see how us knowing Maniac is town changes what we saw in that reads list; rather, I think that the fact that he is town does nothing because reedeer, if scum, already knew that he was town. I also have no doubt that scum know how backing off of a top scumread without rationalizing it looks, but I also know that they are smart to flip flop their top

scumreads on the regular in order to keep someone from getting particularly pissed off at them. Protection against an OMGUS is huge because even though an OMGUS is a bad tactic, the attention they bring is unwelcome.

@bozo … your vote on Vash is horrendous, but it’s up to Vash to defend against your horrendous case, not me. Why are you voting for him over MLQ? Have you not done enough investigating into MLQ to come up with a case?

@Rj … “I've still not got an answer on the damn borks, and now when someone I read as super influential has me pegged as scum for an unfounded, newbie opinion, they won't change their mind when I very clearly stated that I had changed mine.”

Why does this bother you so much? That’s the point that I wanted to drive home with what I said. You are acting exclusively in self interest. All you care about is what people feel about you.

@Tom … “For once in your mafia career can you read the game and use what you read to formulate opinions rather than coming up with wild theories and then cherrypicking posts that fit your story?”

Are you really this frustrated with brain at the beginning of D2 or are you trying to get him to cool off on you? You’re just about as flustered as Rj is. You’re coming apart and I’ve never seen you do that before.

What’s your case on bozo and darg?

@brain … “Balki is an attorney in real life.”

I have no major opinion on Balki at this point, but you are aware that having a shred of intelligence isn’t a requirement for being an attorney, right?

You listed a scumteam of four and none of them included ND despite you calling my case “plausible” and offering some credence to it yourself. Why?

@Ezio … “I'm townclearing rdriver, reedreeder, and ND until I'm given serious evidence they can't be town.”

Have you read my case on ND? Why is that not evidence that he can’t be town?

He was clearly teaching RJ in this message, was he also teaching Mean or was he trying to frame Reeeder. Not sure.

Next, he defended Balki and wanted to shoot Yav.

Then he made something I find really weird for bo:

This is a great point and yall should be sure to read it as opposed to glossing over it.

This is about a post Fox made townreading Mean. Were bo trying to get Fox townread or Mean, or both?

Then leave the game with 6 hours to EOD

Oh cool meme is here.

Won't be posting until after EOD tonight. I don't know why ND isn't easy scum but if yall don't wanna lynch him then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

N2

Bo started the night telling Maniac his deadpool is a bad idea and sayng that the vote info isn´t good to use. I think it might mean that scum tried to save RJ on this day. In this case he could be trying to defend Mean (or in a less extent Bozo and Balki). He also said that he was sure RJ was bussed, but it´s pure WIFOM if he is telling the truth or not.

Asked a lot of questions mostly for town confirmed players and interacted a lot with brain.

Reads N2:

Some boring and shitty EON reads because I don’t have time for this:

Town:

Fox - as before, he’s basically clear in my eyes. If this is still hard to fathom, let me know.

Tom - hasn’t played a particularly townie game but Rj’s vote on him on D2 has me fairly convinced that he’s town.

edit: apparently cop

ND - sigh…

RHK - his early play was genuine. I haven’t had a chance to read the case on him but even if it holds water, I don’t know that I’m going to want to vote for him.

MLQ - I don’t see a newbie coming in with the aggressiveness that she did if she were mafia. Even into D2, she’s tunneling Balki. Why? I don’t think her case has tons of merit to it but I certainly don’t think it has gotten worse or that she has

backed off of it. She’s impressing me.

Scum:

dargomeme - darg was sort of scummy, and there is a decent case to be made against him for his treatment of the gun issue. I also found his interaction with Balki on N1 to be a little bit contrived, as in he didn’t want to go after him terribly hard:

“I find this odd: you did a bit of a read of me, and felt suspicious enough to question me. But you didn't seem to actually read me. (Or you would have known I was going to be absent at EoD) This does not seem like town-thorough Balki. It feels like throwing shade. But maybe you just didn't read this time as carefully as you usually do. Not sure it is scum-indicative, but it is unlike you.”

Within hours of the start of day 2, he says he decided to “lean more cheerfully at Balki.” He needed a scumread to fill out a quota for brain, and he gave one, without really giving it much thought at all, and then backed off of it. It seems to me like scumreading people that aren’t scum is hard for darg, so if darg flips scum then I certainly expect Balki to turn up town based on this interaction.

yavuz - already made half a case against him and haven’t seen anything to change my mind but I don’t have time to build on it right now. The way he followed me around like a lost puppy on ND still makes me cringe, especially after townreading

ND constantly on D1, then voting for him without justification, and then scumreading him. It’s as if he made a mistake and he had to follow it.

Contrary to darg, if yavuz is scum, I expect Balki is as well. See EOD1; it’s pretty self explanatory.

rdrivera - if there’s a dark horse candidate right now, I think this is it. His votes are perfect so far. He jumped from Ezio to rj, making it a very tight EOD, on day 2, but he didn’t cast a decisive vote. Same goes for D1. He tied things up, but without casting a decisive vote. It seems to me like he’s bussing but he’s not trying to push his teammates over the edge. I expect that that is mostly town’s doing if rdrivera turns out to be scum.

Included Mean, Tom and ND as town. Tom was obvious, but why Mean and ND?
Included DargoMemeYoyo and me in the scum list to replace Tom. ND and RJ. Would BO include another scum in his scumreads? Maybe, and this is another reason to vote Yoyo....

D3:

Believed Demon claim since start, which is what to expect of scum if the claim is valid.

Voted Meme with a poor reasoning.

Then two interesting messages:

bo_sox48
Day-3 16:43
page 103 I'm tired, cranky, and really not happy that I'm being swindled by both of my employers into working absurd hours for the next three days, so I'm not reading the thread and I'm not dealing with any of this shit for the time being. I'd rather

sleep. However, I opened up the peterbot and saw that Ezio died (and that MLQ is the only person with a wagon, wtf? Someone please explain this to me), so I skimmed back and saw what yall were talking about after he was shot. To those of

you with the "why would a townie shoot Ezio" question, I ask you one thing and one thing only:

Why would scum shoot Ezio?

a) He's a VT and they have a stalker, so if they had a gun they could have played it way better. Even if the person with a gun read him as a PR, they didn't have to pull the trigger.

b) Maniac is clear. Why wouldn't he get shot? It's not a waste of a nightkill and the gun doesn't reveal. Multiple people are nearly universally townread. Ezio was probably among the group of possible mislynches for them.

c) He was doing nothing. This is good for scum, bad for town, full stop. Why take out a player doing nothing?

The person that shot Ezio should reveal that they shot him and take the heat for it. Why? Because while it really doesn't make sense to me no matter which side of the coin you're playing on, the gunsmith possibly revealing you is a much worse

alternative than owning up to it.
bo_sox48
Day-3 16:35
page 103 On another note, if nobody wants to lynch captainmeme for not even playing, that's fine, but if you actually read darg and didn't find him at least a little scummy, you weren't paying very much attention.

##VOTE rdrivera, because this day needs to be more interesting than yesterday and MLQ running away with an early lead isn't a good way to make that happen. Made my halfhearted case at the EON. If I have time, I'll do a reread. If not, oh well.

Good night, dumb dumbs.

This was the message that made me think bo shooted Ezio, he hedged so much on why town or scum would shot and seems almost as he wants to bait the GS into claiming. Then he changed his vote, which could means he wanted a counterwagon to Mean and meme wasn´t working.

Then after Yav claim he defended a Yav lynch with a convoluted logic that get him caught. This show how badly scum want to get the Cop and I am pretty sure at least one more tried to get him lynched, which look bad to Vash and Mean. Balki changed at last minute and Meme voted after the lynch is decided and also could be the ones he is defending.

Night 3

I'm not gonna be here for EON or much at all until Tuesday. The scumteam is some combination of yav, rdrivera, Vash, captainmeme, and maybe Balki or MLQ but I tend to think their back and forth is two tunneling townies. I'll build up some digestable info and maybe a case when I have time.

And yes, I know that that is more than three. I value the opinion that we can't scumread more people than there are scum players but the game isn't all that compliant to people who get stuck on one train.

Didn´t give townreads and put almost half of the unclear players on the scum list. I guess at least one scum is on this list.

Day 4

Engage in a discussion with Tham. Casted some shades on Mean and Vash but didn´t vote for them. In fact, didn´t vote at all.

With 35 minutes to go when he was already on the lead with 4 votes tryed to start a wagon on me crumbling that he has a scan on me. Why he didn´t try to get a wagon on Balki or Mean that are a lot easier targets at that moment? Maybe because I wasn´t online or because one of them is scum and even fliping the other that is town will pressure his scum buddy?
(On a side note, bo lied on his case against me, I won only one game as Mafia and I didn´t bus much as long as I remember, the game I bussed hard was my first one with two mafias and I lost on lylo).

Then he said reeeder was the scum deep threat and scum reads on me and DargoMemeYoyo, but at this point with a sure lynch it´s all pure WIFOM

TL;DR
After re-reading Bo, I think Mean, Yoyo and Fox are the most likely to be the last scums and I am willing to vote for any of this three today

[Foxcastle]

I was hoping to have more time to gamesolve today, but probably won't for some last minute work I have to get done this afternoon. I did a quick ISO of Rdrivera, and while I see that he could be scum, I'm still inclined to keep my vote on Balki (##unend, since that's not happening). I am not sure how around I will be at EOD.

After Balki, I'd be inclined to lynch Yoyo, because what is the fucking point, even? No posts, no votes. I'm also fine shooting him.

I'd probably vote for Bozo over Rdrivera, Reedeer, or Vash, without a closer look. (If I get more time, I will look closer at Bozo, Reedeer, and Vash.)

Mean is not an option for me yet. I seem to have forgiven DemonRHK.

[Foxcastle]

And I managed to vote for Jamiet when I was responding to Maniac.
##VOTE Balki

[Hellenic Riot]

Day 5 Vote Count:

Balki Bartokomous (3): MeanLaQueefa, Foxcastle, bozotheclown
rdrivera2005 (3): Maniac, Tom Bombadil, reedeer1
bozotheclown (2): DemonRHK, VashtaNeurotic
Foxcastle (1): Balki Bartokomous
Yoyoyozo (1): rdrivera2005

Not voted (1): Yoyoyozo

Currently NOBODY is set to be lynched!

Yoyoyozo has not made the required two posts.

You have 5 hours and 22 minutes remaining.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I don't really understand why anyone is voting rdrivera. I mean, he's in the pool of unclears, but at least his votes have been solid, and I don't hear anyone making a convincing case. Seems low priority to me.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Hey Balki:

Whatever happened to:

"Have to review, but I feel like Yoyo outed himself in the last ten minutes there."

No follow up on that? You've moved onto Foxy now. What happened to convince yourself that Yoyo didn't out himself?

Yeah, that's how I felt in the moment. Yoyo showed up at EOD, after promising to game solve and then doing nothing, and cast a vote on me -- the leading wagon at the time. That seems scummier to me than it does to you because I know I am town. Then, after Bo became a runaway wagon and was sure to flip, Yoyo stuck his vote there.

Upon reread, I can see that Yoyo just decided to sheep Tom. Now, I don't really know if Yoyo knew why Tom was clear, or if he just decided to believe Tom, or if he pretended to believe Tom, or what. But with the context of Tom telling Yoyo to sheep him, this vote pattern makes some sense and is more NAI.

But...what the Hell? Where is Yoyo? Why wasn't Durga used as a replacement in this slot? Is it because she has a provision in her contract that says she can only be assigned a town role?

[Balki Bartokomous]

I think there is a decent chance that I am shot before this lynch goes through. I think it would make sense to shoot be with about two hours to go, so there is plenty of time for everyone to be online and to cast a vote they can be held accountable for. If I am shot, and flip town, it doesn't mean you should lynch MLQ. I'm confident she is Town.

But you should lynch to find Hooker today. If we can kill Hooker today, we're in a very good place. I'd lynch in this order: Foxy, Yoyo, Vash, rdriv. If you hit Hooker, then you're looking for godfather, and Bozo is probably the most likely flip.

[Tom Bombadil]

Why do you think you haven't been shot yet? After practically begging to be shot yesterday/today?

[Tom Bombadil]

Is it maybe because you know a gun didn't go out?

[Tom Bombadil]

Like, I think I know what you are saying Maniac, but... I want to lynch Balki still

[Balki Bartokomous]

Is it maybe because you know a gun didn't go out?

There is almost certainly at least one gun out, perhaps more. We have had four nights, and only 1 gun shot. So your theory is not strong.

Tom, everything you say to me these days is marinated in suspicion. You're wrong. I'm town. And I'm one of few who are still trying to solve this puzzle.

You're going to miss me when I'm gone.

[Tom Bombadil]

2 guns were shot.

D3 Ezio was shot. D4 yavu was shot.

Gunsmith only gets three. So there is a chance with rb's, that a gun is not out. Plus gunsmith could choose to not give guns out early with the Witch still in play.

[Tom Bombadil]

"marinated in suspicion" - you are making me hungry =P

I am suspicious, yes.