Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[thamrick]

Tom was almost lynched yesterday, he probably thought he was going soon, which he absolutely should, and thought he could grab one or two PR's with him. It is obvious.

They're already at a huge disadvantage and they know they can't win if the cop lives for much longer, outing the cop is their win condition now that the witch is dead, can't you see that? I'm decently sure you're town tham, but grow a brain, it is obviously tom. You didn't even answer my question, and you vote against me is total horse bork.

Sure, Tom was somewhat of a wagon. I'll give you that.

If you want reasons why he wouldn't have been desperate, look at the EoN reads. Literally no one had Tom as scum. A few of these reads list were after the claim. But even the ones before were at worst null.

You're also not even considering that it potentially was a true claim. I'd expect a townie to at least consider the importance of cop and not just try to lynch them.

[DemonRHK]

Balki calm your borker and get at least 1 other scum read that you can harass intermittently between me please.

I've been rereading the thread (I always do that before reading the recent stuff, so calling me out to talk to you when back reading will never work), I haven't been around much because today is my mom's birthday and we're doing family stuff, I just read EoN.

I'm very sad my bae is dead.

I'll get some reads up later tonight and be back on in a while, I still haven't had the chance to go and reread after rjm got lynched, so I need some time to collect stuff. ATM tom's claim last night was the scummiest thing I've seen all game and only served to bait out the real cop, so ##vote tom, #forBrainBomb

[Cue Music]

Somebody once told me that Maniac wanted to shoot me~
I ain't the strongest read in the game~
She was lookin' kind of scum with her whining and her dumbs~
Faking tears for our slain town Brain~

Well the sus keeps coming and it don't stop coming~
Threat of hip-fire from the conf town and she leaves the topic running~
Didn't make sense not to claim for one~
Our Brain got dead, but his reads; A ton~
So much to read, so much to parse~
While others get off sitting on their arse~
They'll never know if I don't claim~
They'll never gather reads without some blame!~

Hey now, we're exposed PR, get your reads out, no shame~
Hey now, we're gonna die now, find remaining scum, still get blamed~
Everyone that slips is sus~
Only the God QT knows who I can trust~

[bo_sox48]

They assume Maniac would be saved, eh, maybe they holster, fair enough point. Also points to a vet or a good player on the scumteam. Sus goes up for Vash, Balki, bo, and likely MLQ.

This is interesting. You want a vet or a good player, and yet you leave off so many vets and good players. Let me give you the player list so that you can reconsider your definition of a vet or a good player.

1. DemonRHK
2. Foxcastle
3. ND
4. bozotheclown
5. Ezio
6. rdrivera2005
7. yavuzovic
8. rjmcf
9. Balki Bartokomous
10. Jamiet99uk
11. reedeer1
12. brainbomb
13. VashtaNeurotic
14. Tom Bombadil
15. Maniac
16. dargorygel/captainmeme
17. thamrick
18. snowy801
19. bo_sox48
20. MeanLaQueefa
21. SuperSteve

"Vets" are italicized. "Good players," totally subjective but I tried to be nice, are emboldened. Dead players are neither. Clear players are neither.

Your list should be longer than 4, and it should include you.

Moreover, assuming that the townclear Maniac would be saved is smart. It's not that smart, though. Townclear is hard to misinterpret.

As for why, I think they're hunting randomly. nothing has made sense.

Now you're going insane. Just a few posts ago, you indicated that the mafia team is smart and said that good players and veterans should be looked at with more suspicion. Now you're saying that you think the mafia team is hunting "randomly." Yeah, no. That doesn't happen if the mafia team is smart. Your reasoning here is full of holes and totally fallacious, and even if it were workable, your list is still way, way bigger than it needs to be.

(assuming BB was killed due to his CC)

Why would you assume that?

Bo didn't even mention the Yav connection until EON during the day he was glad to get an extra vote.

You should try page 42, or page 49, or page 58. I’ve been scumreading yav for sheeping me onto you longer than you’ve been scumreading yav for sheeping me onto you. Get your head out of your ass, Trumpette, and not just in mafia.

I'm very sad my bae is dead.

Did you call him bae while he was alive? I believe that would be called buddying if you did. If not, go tell him now. He needs it. Poor bastard has been fighting that “winter depression,” ya know.

They're already at a huge disadvantage and they know they can't win if the cop lives for much longer, outing the cop is their win condition now that the witch is dead, can't you see that?

How does this work? Walk me through it from Tom’s perspective. Scum drops two, takes down a PR on night 1, and then decides to… uh… sacrifice themselves?

[bo_sox48]

I don't really like how a bunch of people suspicious of dargorygel and captainmeme are getting off track because of new information we've got heading into today and I don't want meme to get lost in the fray.

@Balki. I find this odd: you did a bit of a read of me, and felt suspicious enough to question me. But you didn't seem to actually read me. (Or you would have known I was going to be absent at EoD) This does not seem like town-thorough Balki. It feels like throwing shade. But maybe you just didn't read this time as carefully as you usually do. Not sure it is scum-indicative, but it is unlike you.

@captainmeme... this is to you. Why was darg so hesitant to scumread Balki? Why did he "lean more cheerfully" toward Balki in the next couple of hours after this post? Why didn't he ever actually go into detail about the feelings he had in this post about Balki before hedging his read with vagueness and ambiguity? This screams "I'm scum and I know this guy is town, but I need a scumread and I need it right now and I don't have time and/or don't know how to pin a good one against anyone other than my teammates, but I don't want to do that."

##VOTE captainmeme

[MeanLaQueefa]

Here are those reads

demonRHK: Town. Claimed watcher, we don’t touch him until he gets cced. I also believe him though.

foxcastle: Town. I feel a lot of town arguments, and the way he talked to rjm about being “newbie scum” seems way to blatant for a real mafia member to do to another mafia member. He backed it up with a vote later on and I just can’t see him being scum here.

ND: Slight Town. I find it very hard to follow ND a lot of the time with what he’s saying, and I wonder if he’s always like this. Some people seem to respect him as a good player but also say he acts dumb sometimes, so I don’t really know how to read him. He was one of the first to vote rjm, so that earns him points, I don’t scum would bus the witch easily.

bozotheclown: Scum. Bozo does an interesting thing where he votes for vash for most of the day, switches to tom and within the same minute switches back to vash as maniac’s wave of people on to vash comes in. While, like me, bozo had a previous history of wanting to vote vash, his brief switch shows that he was ok with tom dying over rj, and those who are town reading tom and vash should be looking at this very closely, because if they’re both town, I think bozo is almost certainly scum given that he voted on both counts to protect rj, and he strikes me as the type of player who could think that he could get away with that, he obviously had a strike of regret and panic to switch his vote back off tom that quickly. I believe he could be scum with tom, switching onto tom at the end to try and save the witch over whatever scum role tom is. He also never mentions why he scumreads tom anywhere, and only mentions seeing him as a “reasonable candidate” 30 minutes before his quick switch on D2. ##vote bozo

Ezio: Slight scum. He’s barely posted, but the little bits he has seem a little to much like he’s trying to be involved even though he clearly can’t be bothered to be. Really wondering if he’s just the type of player to lurk all the time or he might be trying to lay super low as scum.

rdrivera2005: town. I really don’t get where people are getting their scum reads here, he is acting very towny. I get why he voted for me, but it is a misunderstanding that brain changes what he thinks every few hours. He believed in the tom lynch and pushed it immensely. Rdrivera also had pretty impactful votes on both rjm and Jamie, so I really have a hard time seeing him as scum here.

yavuzovic: Slight Town. He seems very adamant about being lynched and proving his alignment, which made me smile and makes me think it is hard for him to be scum. He seems to simple to bluff like that, although I am burned after rj ended up flipping scum after thinking that.


balki bartokomous: Slight Town. I’ve been feeling a very different energy from balki in the last cycle or so. He seems to be playing off emotions a lot, and he still seems upset for me calling him dumb. He is tunneling me way too much, and seems to be abandoning figuring things out to do it. I did that with him for a little while, so it isn’t scum indicative. I reread my arguments on him, and they were based basically entirely on gut and the residue of my feelings off his first few interactions that felt scummy to me and I crafted somewhat elaborate plots that could let me view him as a scum mastermind, which was a mistake. Looking at him without that lens, he seems like an emotional townie.

reedeer1: Slight Town. Hard to read him, I was getting towny vibes from him, but his lack of playing due to sickness and his quiet presence when he was in good health makes it hard to tell. On evidence, he’s a null, but on gut he’s town, so I split the difference.

VashtaNeurotic: Null. He’s seemed to fall off the planet even more so than I did after the lynch. reexamining his play I feel like he just likes to say things confidently and doesn’t really seem to know or care about much, which is town indicative. I don’t have a lot to say he is town besides that he handled the pressure yesterday like I’d expect a town who didn’t care much would.

Tom Bombadil: Scum. I don’t think his claim last night was in anyway good for town. No scum team is going to change targets last minute at a PR claim RIGHT before the nk. There’s a chance that he could have baited the cop out, but an even greater chance he got town PR’s to target him and freeing up someone like brainbomb to be targeted (probably still too risky to go for maniac, even with the claim). The thing is, the cop produces 1 semi-clear or 1 scum target a day, meaning that if the scum don’t get the cop out in the next couple days, there are going to be too many clears for them to ever hope to clear them all out, especially with watcher and nurse still being alive. I think tom tried to make a soft gambit to out the cop. I also don’t see how it could have baited the nk, it was likely to bait PR’s just as much anyway so the mafia would want nothing to do with it. I also don’t see his vote on rj earning him much credit, because it was done right as he became a top wagon and could have easily been to distance rj from him, thus protecting the witch, but after fox and ND hopped on, Tom got locked into voting rj.

Maniac: Town Jesus.

dargorygel/Catainmeme: Slight Scum. Before dargoygel was subbed out, he was making iffy arguments and lurking a lot. He made some fairly serious accusations at me based on my demeanor changing, which might be more fair now, as I have been quieter lately because of family issues, but wasn’t really true when he said it. Meme has been mostly quiet besides his ezio vote, which is about as quiet a vote as you can cast. There’s been enough weirdness from dar and lurkiness in general where I would be okay lynching them, but not enough info for me to be sure they’re scum.

thamrick – town. He scumread me because he thought I misread brainbomb’s death message and thought he was cop, even when I stated clearly that I scumread tom for claiming cop last night. Combine that with many of his other arguments, and I come to the conclusion that scum can’t be this stupid.

bo_sox48 – Slight Town. I’ve liked his logic a lot more lately, he’s been actually trying to solve things after his D1. I find it concerning that he always seems to be on an off wagon at EoD though (bb D1, ND D2).

[MeanLaQueefa]

I'm quite tired right now, and I can answer questions for anything here or in my reads that doesn't make sense tomorrow.

Now that I've got 4 votes, I feel like I should start defending myself because no one else is going to.

I've played this game pretty bad so far. My pride wants to chalk that up to not knowing how to read people properly in a forum setting, but it was also because I tunnel visioned on balki, even after realizing my picture of him as scum really didn't fit like I wanted it to.

Here's the thing I don't get about the people voting for me. If I was scum, you can be for damn certain I would have come out on the right side of one of those votes. I stayed on balki D1 because I was convinced he was scum at the time, and on D2 I was convinced rjm wasn't scum. If I was scum with either rjm or jamie, I would have jumped at the chance to distance myself from both, but instead I didn't know how they'd flip and got blind-sided by both flips. I would have just not defended rjm at the end of day there and hopped on him like a good scum would.

Another thing I don't get, is if I'm scum, why the hell would I kill brainbomb? The guy posted this:

"I will NEVER lynch mean. You could literally show me a role pm saying they were scum.and Id still not buy it" - Brainbomb, 30 hours till EoD 2

and this:

"I like this queef person. But I kinda feel like they need to be sorted out asap" - Brainbomb, 6 hours till EoN 2

He may have listed me as part of his theoretical scumteam yesterday once, but by the end of the night, he was posting excerpts from the mafia qt about demon, ezio, tham and tom. He would have come around to town reading me again, and seemed like he did even before he died.

Why would I kill who was likely to be my biggest and most influential advocate on the eve of a day everyone in this game, including me immediately following yesterday's lynch, knew I was going to be a top candidate for the lynch. I would have NEVER killed brainbomb if I was scum, it would just be stupid, especially since he was unlikely to be a valuable PR, it was way too little to gain for what I would have lost socially as scum.

[yavuzovic]

I don't know what is MeanLaQueefa, however ND would be a better lynch!
I know what am I doing. I request that I'm investigated. I'm not lying, vote ND.
##vote ND

[bozotheclown]

no RB, no gun

Some interesting developments tonight, I am not sure what to make of it all. I assume brain believed Tom’s claim and was trying to protect him, because if he thought Tom was just VT trying to draw the NK, there was no reason for him to do the same. It seems very unlikely for scum to preemptively make a cop claim, so Tom comes out looking good. Demon’s claim does not look as good, but I think it makes sense as town or scum to avoid being shot.

[bozotheclown]

@thamrick:

I find Vashta suspicious for the same reasons I did D2. Also, his “TOLD YOU SO” post after the lynch D2 did nothing to alleviate my suspicion. What did he tell us, that he was not scum? Rjmcf’s lynch hardly proves Vashta is town. That Rjmcf was scum? Vashta was never pushing Rjmcf as scum.

##VOTE VashtaNeurotic

[bozotheclown]

@MeanLaQueefa:

It appears that you did not read D2 EOD when you said about me: “he obviously had a strike of regret and panic to switch his vote back off tom that quickly”. If you look at the game thread, you will see that as soon as I gave up trying to lynch Vashta to get on one of the top wagons, Vashta started picking up votes to make him a viable wagon, so I switch my vote back. The bot report is misleading because it does put votes tagged with the same time in the right order, but there were two votes for Vashta between my vote switching to Tom and my vote switching back to Vashta. It was these votes, and not “regret and panic” that cause me to switch my vote back. In fact, I had not seen Demon’s vote for Vashta yet when I entered my vote for Tom, so when I switch my vote, I thought I was the only one voting Vashta, but when I switched back, there were three other votes for Vashta, all of this occurring in less than a minute.

Also, I have a couple of problems with your defense. First, you argue that if you were scum you would have surely ended one of the days on the right wagon, yet you scum read me for not ending either day on the right wagon. Second, you said you would never kill brainbomb because he strongly defended you, but in stating this you are already trying to use brainbomb’s NK and now locked in defense of you to your advantage.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Bozo: "It appears that you did not read D2 EOD when you said about me: “he obviously had a strike of regret and panic to switch his vote back off tom that quickly”. If you look at the game thread, you will see that as soon as I gave up trying to lynch Vashta to get on one of the top wagons, Vashta started picking up votes to make him a viable wagon, so I switch my vote back. The bot report is misleading because it does put votes tagged with the same time in the right order, but there were two votes for Vashta between my vote switching to Tom and my vote switching back to Vashta. It was these votes, and not “regret and panic” that cause me to switch my vote back. In fact, I had not seen Demon’s vote for Vashta yet when I entered my vote for Tom, so when I switch my vote, I thought I was the only one voting Vashta, but when I switched back, there were three other votes for Vashta, all of this occurring in less than a minute."

Yeah I actually read EoD 2 in thread, I saw those votes, and that's why I mentioned "maniac's wave of people onto vash" in my read of you. Of course, you can explain it a different way, but I think if you actually wanted tom to die and not just protecting rj, you probably would have taken a little more time in your decision and actually provided a reason for voting tom at some point, which unless I'm mistaken you never have.

Bozo: "Also, I have a couple of problems with your defense. First, you argue that if you were scum you would have surely ended one of the days on the right wagon, yet you scum read me for not ending either day on the right wagon."

Actually I didn't scum read you for ending on the wrong target at all, I only mentioned your day two in my read of you, and even then specifically your switch to tom and back to vash struck me as scummy, not that you ended on vash, you had given reasons and had been conistant on vash for at least that day, so that made sense. The tom switch didn't unless you just wanted to protect rj. You had to have seen maniac's post about reducing the lynch pool to not include tom before you posted your vote too, which leads to even further questions about why you out of the blue switched to tom.

Bozo: "Second, you said you would never kill brainbomb because he strongly defended you, but in stating this you are already trying to use brainbomb’s NK and now locked in defense of you to your advantage."

Yeah I realize that, but 4 people are voting me now and no one is saying this even though it should be obvious. You're right though, me defending myself with an "I wouldn't have killed brainbomb" argument is much weaker than I'd like, and I wish I didn't have to use it. If I was scum, I would have chosen to have brain here because I have no doubt he would be defending me or at least asking for me to not be lynched today. Brain defending me would have gone much further to sway people because he had more town cred than I do.

[Maniac]

I'm shooting one of the following half way through the day:

Bo-Sox, Yavuz, Captmeme, reedeer

I'd like everyone's opinion.

If any of you are PRs, I guess that's unlucky. Do not claim yet.

I'll give notice of who I'm shooting 1hr before the shot. You can then claim or make a case for not being shot.

Regards
Town Jesus

I can't wait to find out who the gunslinger is. Must be an American, who else would allow a maniac to have a gun.

[rdrivera2005]

@Mean - The problem with your defense is that it doesn't make sense. Scum desperately need to find Cop to have a chance, if Cop have two or three more nights it will be almost impossible to scum win. So, Brain was dead not because of his reads or who he will defend but because scum thought there were a good chance he is Cop.
Also, you are using the same argument as Demon, that making the right choices is scummy and voting only for town don't. And this isn't true.

[rdrivera2005]

@Maniac - From this list I would shoot Reedeer. Meme isn't a bad choice too, as he doesn't seem willing to engage in the game. Yavuz will probably be sorted out one way or another and I don't scumread Bo.

Now I am going to the beach, probably will be online only at night.

[Tom Bombadil]

meme > yavu > bo_sox > redeer

[Tom Bombadil]

@yavu: What is your read of MeanLaQueefa?

[yavuzovic]

I don't know, I haven't looked for her yet.

[Tom Bombadil]

Will you look at her?

[yavuzovic]

I'm searching her chat archive. I will tell you after that.

[yavuzovic]

Or I can find you something but that would take 3 days.