Mafia XL - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

[ghug]

I'm going to give a meta read now: bo is worster than he usually is as town.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I am scary. I said "dichotomy" a few posts back.

Why were you rereading your own posts?

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Id like some stances from balki on where hes standing with reads on people. lotsa asling questions, no visible processibg of said information with the exception being the squigs bit.

I don't think this is a correct description of my play, but in any event:

Town reads on Bozo and Squigs. I also feel pretty good about xorxes and damo.

Leaning scum on Jamiet, ND, DemonRHK

Feeling like I could vote for thdfrance for secret mysterious reasons.

Can you recap your skepticism of me?

This is something I noticed when I read it first but then forgot to comment on. Your scum reads are exactly the four people I voted for. Coincidence?

IT’S


NOT


ALL


ABOUT


YOU

[Durga]

I don't actually think I've played with Balki for a very long time... Is he usually this uh, 'serious'

[bo_sox48]

I don’t think there is ever much to glean from someone hedging a read other than that they are hedging a read. That’s why it’s an effective strategy.

Just for the record, there was no hedging involved here. My townread of damo is still quite firm. Durga did not accuse me of being hedgy either. For some reason she thinks I could have no valid towny reason for not telling her what my read is based on until after the night is over.

Fair enough, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that.

[xorxes]

Ok I read the setup. This is a very HR-esque type of game. Interesting, would be more balanced in it was a lawyer instead of godfather and the observer didn't get to know who did the visiting and who was visited. That 3 time use driver tho

Why were you looking at the setup from the point of view of the Mafia? Jamiet thought the setup was scumsided, and you seem to be saying it's somewhat townsided. Were you just making an unbiased appreciation?

[Balki Bartokomous]

I don't actually think I've played with Balki for a very long time... Is he usually this uh, 'serious'

I always wear a sport coat, even on Saturdays, if that’s what you’re asking.

[bo_sox48]

Do you legitimately believe there's anything to be gleaned here?

Xorxes has a clear and apparent scum meta, and being confusing at night is not part of it.

I don’t think there is ever much to glean from someone hedging a read other than that they are hedging a read. That’s why it’s an effective strategy.

I don’t know his scum meta. I try to play this game, not an extension of some game 8 months ago when he happened to be scum. I wish we would do less of the “well he doesn’t look like he dd last time he was scum, therefore he obviously isn’t scum and gets a free pass on everything.”

Well that's stupid. Why would we not use all the tools we have?

All the tools we have includes evidence from this game, but you want me to forget about evidence from this game and instead focus on meta.

You can use meta all you want. I can't stop you, obviously. I just am not confident enough in xorxes' meta to use it against him and I imagine that a lot of other people feel the same way and I'm not wasting my weekend going back and rereading his past games where he was scum just for the purpose of making a half-assed meta read on him.

[Durga]

Ok I read the setup. This is a very HR-esque type of game. Interesting, would be more balanced in it was a lawyer instead of godfather and the observer didn't get to know who did the visiting and who was visited. That 3 time use driver tho

Why were you looking at the setup from the point of view of the Mafia? Jamiet thought the setup was scumsided, and you seem to be saying it's somewhat townsided. Were you just making an unbiased appreciation?

It was clearly unbiased, the observer is a town role - no? Are you really trying to read into my thoughts of the setup as being mafia sided. Like what

And yeah, if you're town you would probably be scared about dying n1 - since you're fearkilled a lot. So yes, I AM skeptical that you're refusing to share this info.

[Balki Bartokomous]

That reminds me though. Vecna is playing.

Vecna, when you have a moment, please write a five-paragraph essay about your thoughts on my alignment.

[ghug]

I don’t think there is ever much to glean from someone hedging a read other than that they are hedging a read. That’s why it’s an effective strategy.

I don’t know his scum meta. I try to play this game, not an extension of some game 8 months ago when he happened to be scum. I wish we would do less of the “well he doesn’t look like he dd last time he was scum, therefore he obviously isn’t scum and gets a free pass on everything.”

Well that's stupid. Why would we not use all the tools we have?

All the tools we have includes evidence from this game, but you want me to forget about evidence from this game and instead focus on meta.

You can use meta all you want. I can't stop you, obviously. I just am not confident enough in xorxes' meta to use it against him and I imagine that a lot of other people feel the same way and I'm not wasting my weekend going back and rereading his past games where he was scum just for the purpose of making a half-assed meta read on him.

Nobody's asking you to go back and read, and I'm not giving him a free pass on anything. Knowing xorxes, knowing his past play, and having a modicum of sense about the world, I find that comment not to be indicative of all that much, and I find the way it was harped upon overly gotcha-y.

How would you characterize your play at the end of the day and beginning of the night? Walk me through your thought process.

[ghug]

Ok I read the setup. This is a very HR-esque type of game. Interesting, would be more balanced in it was a lawyer instead of godfather and the observer didn't get to know who did the visiting and who was visited. That 3 time use driver tho

Why were you looking at the setup from the point of view of the Mafia? Jamiet thought the setup was scumsided, and you seem to be saying it's somewhat townsided. Were you just making an unbiased appreciation?

It was clearly unbiased, the observer is a town role - no? Are you really trying to read into my thoughts of the setup as being mafia sided. Like what

And yeah, if you're town you would probably be scared about dying n1 - since you're fearkilled a lot. So yes, I AM skeptical that you're refusing to share this info.

"I mentioned a town role so your point is moot" is a remarkably poor response to an otherwise uncompelling line of questioning.

[Durga]

Why were you looking at the setup from the point of view of the Mafia? Jamiet thought the setup was scumsided, and you seem to be saying it's somewhat townsided. Were you just making an unbiased appreciation?

It was clearly unbiased, the observer is a town role - no? Are you really trying to read into my thoughts of the setup as being mafia sided. Like what

And yeah, if you're town you would probably be scared about dying n1 - since you're fearkilled a lot. So yes, I AM skeptical that you're refusing to share this info.

"I mentioned a town role so your point is moot" is a remarkably poor response to an otherwise uncompelling line of questioning.

...he asked me why i was looking at the setup from the point of view of the mafia. those were just my thoughts on the setup. they included town and mafia roles. if you think the line of questioning itself is uncompelling why don't you just not comment on it rather than make it go on further.

[bo_sox48]

Well that's stupid. Why would we not use all the tools we have?

All the tools we have includes evidence from this game, but you want me to forget about evidence from this game and instead focus on meta.

You can use meta all you want. I can't stop you, obviously. I just am not confident enough in xorxes' meta to use it against him and I imagine that a lot of other people feel the same way and I'm not wasting my weekend going back and rereading his past games where he was scum just for the purpose of making a half-assed meta read on him.

Nobody's asking you to go back and read, and I'm not giving him a free pass on anything. Knowing xorxes, knowing his past play, and having a modicum of sense about the world, I find that comment not to be indicative of all that much, and I find the way it was harped upon overly gotcha-y.

How would you characterize your play at the end of the day and beginning of the night? Walk me through your thought process.

At the end of the day, I pulled up the bot and saw it was 7-5-4 with me on damo, who had 7. I made it 6-5-5 by dropping off damo and voting for RHK. I had not read anything at this point and still haven't, for what that's worth. I just like a competitive EOD1. I then watched Balki defend damo to the end of the Earth, which felt weird to me, and thdfrance make a bad post with 10 minutes to go that both rubbed me the wrong way and simultaneously made me think he was probably town. It took me a couple of minutes to decide which I believed more, which ended up being that he was probably town. I couldn't do anything about it as his vote hit 10 before I was willing to defend him, and like I've said, I was not going to stick my neck out to do anything about it anyway. That doesn't mean that I wasn't going to have a "yeah, I was right" moment when the ball dropped.

Do you have a question that isn't just asking me for a summary of events as they transpired?

[Durga]

I'm pretty sure bo is town

[xorxes]

Ok I read the setup. This is a very HR-esque type of game. Interesting, would be more balanced in it was a lawyer instead of godfather and the observer didn't get to know who did the visiting and who was visited. That 3 time use driver tho

Why were you looking at the setup from the point of view of the Mafia? Jamiet thought the setup was scumsided, and you seem to be saying it's somewhat townsided. Were you just making an unbiased appreciation?

It was clearly unbiased, the observer is a town role - no? Are you really trying to read into my thoughts of the setup as being mafia sided. Like what

You wanted to strengthen the Mafia roles and weaken the town role, that's what caught my attention.

And yeah, if you're town you would probably be scared about dying n1 - since you're fearkilled a lot. So yes, I AM skeptical that you're refusing to share this info.

And you can think of no possible reason why I wouldn't want to?

[xorxes]

I'm pretty sure bo is town

Agree.

[Durga]

'3 use driver tho' is calling it OP - so I don't think it's fair to classify my observations like that. Lawyer is only better if the scum team is lucky, it could also be worse.

No, no I can't. Why don't you just enlighten me. I don't think we started the game on N1 this time. Why is explaining why you think someone is town before you potentially die a bad thing. Given the driver, someone here is going to be dead, it would be nice to weigh in.

[ghug]

All the tools we have includes evidence from this game, but you want me to forget about evidence from this game and instead focus on meta.

You can use meta all you want. I can't stop you, obviously. I just am not confident enough in xorxes' meta to use it against him and I imagine that a lot of other people feel the same way and I'm not wasting my weekend going back and rereading his past games where he was scum just for the purpose of making a half-assed meta read on him.

Nobody's asking you to go back and read, and I'm not giving him a free pass on anything. Knowing xorxes, knowing his past play, and having a modicum of sense about the world, I find that comment not to be indicative of all that much, and I find the way it was harped upon overly gotcha-y.

How would you characterize your play at the end of the day and beginning of the night? Walk me through your thought process.

At the end of the day, I pulled up the bot and saw it was 7-5-4 with me on damo, who had 7. I made it 6-5-5 by dropping off damo and voting for RHK. I had not read anything at this point and still haven't, for what that's worth. I just like a competitive EOD1. I then watched Balki defend damo to the end of the Earth, which felt weird to me, and thdfrance make a bad post with 10 minutes to go that both rubbed me the wrong way and simultaneously made me think he was probably town. It took me a couple of minutes to decide which I believed more, which ended up being that he was probably town. I couldn't do anything about it as his vote hit 10 before I was willing to defend him, and like I've said, I was not going to stick my neck out to do anything about it anyway. That doesn't mean that I wasn't going to have a "yeah, I was right" moment when the ball dropped.

Do you have a question that isn't just asking me for a summary of events as they transpired?

What's suspicious about defending someone?

[xorxes]

Some thoughts on ghug...

I find him generally sound and townie, except for two things that rubbed me the wrong way:

(1) The case on Ike. I can't really make sense of a scum sticking their neck out just to rile Jamiet up. The alternative explanation that Ike was just presenting the "facts" in as favorable a light to himself as possible seems so obvious that I don't know why ghug would ignore it.

(2) The way he said people were scumreading me for the wrong reasons was kind of true but kind of weird as well. The "right" reason was supposedly that I was too defensive, presumably when I said this to Squigs: "How am I being loud? If anything, high participation for me correlates with being town, although as scum I can usually fake enough to survive first day lynch." That's the only thing remotely defensive I could find. But the interesting part is that later ghug had a back and forth with Squigs in which he was way more defensive than I had been.

I don't think that's enough for even a slight scumlean at this point, especially because I think Squigs is more scummy, but that's what I have on ghug so far.