M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Vecna]

@Durga why do you townread kgray?

I don't I just feel bad that she's upset, yknow?

In all seriousness I can't figure her out this game. She's different than normal but I heard her scum game is top tier but this isn't exactly that. She's frustrated and showing it and I'm not sure she would necessarily do that as scum. But then again I don't know why she's frustrated as town either. So really I'm confused.

My guess would be because everyones scumreading her and arguing over stuff and telling her she wrong.

Or maybe im just wrong

[Vecna]

I wouldn't mind an open-ended paragraph like the first one in my last post.

K well I don't do succinct, so here's a few paragraphs.

I think snowy has spent most of the game encouraging little things to make people suspect others but for the most part has not made any strong cases on anybody. The only one I remember is worcej and I remember finding none of it convincing. For someone who apparently notices so many details and nuance in people's words (given he questions things, and agrees when those kinds of things come up) I'm pretty surprised he hasn't been a larger player. But he's the only one not fully onboard with cop!Chaqa and I townread that.

I still have it in my head that damo is the cop, which sort of forces me to townread Eden. I think he got surprisingly frustrated when I was questioning him about Durga D1 but I've been frustrating a lot of people and other than that I've mostly liked what I've seen. Even as an un-CC'd PR claimant, I am very on the fence about Chaqa. It doesn't help that I actually think Flum is being incredibly scummy himself, but I'd rather not discuss that anyway. I am no longer convinced at all about my theory that Chaqa slipped you being town, but that doesn't mean much for his alignment since there are lots of things pointing to both sides of the arguments. And the way bozo avoided talking about Chaqa and spent *all* his time questioning worcej's start to N1 and not Chaqa's made me think he was intentionally avoiding bringing attention to Chaqa being scummy. Or maybe he just knew Chaqa wouldn't be miskilled so he didn't bother.

Durga almost has to be town. I've played two games with scum!Durga, and she's giving so many more opinions and caring so much more here than she did in those games. The only problem is she fits in so well with my tinfoily scumteam of Chaqa, Flum, Durga, bozo, but that's almost certainly nonsense.

TFB is so careful and stays away from controversy, showing up just enough to not be on a lurking radar. I think he's got a good shot at being scum. Tom is similarly careful and even more lurky but I haven't liked his takes at all. Also I remember him refusing to allow me to vote for HR or Balki when they claimed priest and he hasn't said anything about me voting for Chaqa, so.... sus.

Jamie is apparently not concerned with lurkers this game, which is super weird. I don't have any opinion on his gladiator thing because I don't pretend to be able to read into when Jamie's outbursts are genuine or fake or alignment indicative.

Vecna is town unless he isn't. I wouldn't vote for him for at least 3 more days.

I feel like im being put in a box with a cat.

[Vecna]

You know I was thinking

When bozo self voted with his rationale someone (I think Durga?) was like "what made you give up bozo" (actually it was definitely Durga that's where the engagement talk came from - is that real I still can't tell). Anyway, and then someone else was like "wow mafia must've really given him up"

Given that even in the face of insurmountable odds bozo was making that effort but he gave up about then, do we think a bus vote made him call off his efforts and shut up? I think it's a plausible theory worth considering. Could just mean he read the room and decided it was hopeless

Voters at the time:

Jamiet
lfischl
TheFlyingBoat
Vecna
bona
worcej

I mean.....the obvious assignment for bozo was to just use up town resources right? He outted the doc. The only usefull thing for him left to do is use up the JOAT shot or the oracle shot on himself to tell us nothing new.

Scum appears to be playing for the endgame. Theyre playing a game of match the resources.

Right now theres a bunch of black boxes where we do not know the absolute truth. We only have 2 shots to open those boxes.

Im predicting were gonna have a long ass wifomy game. Where chaqa is with us to stay for quite some time. And scum are only intent on killing those when they have been confirmed via mechanics that rule out late game mounting suspicion.

[Vecna]

You know I was thinking

When bozo self voted with his rationale someone (I think Durga?) was like "what made you give up bozo" (actually it was definitely Durga that's where the engagement talk came from - is that real I still can't tell). Anyway, and then someone else was like "wow mafia must've really given him up"

Given that even in the face of insurmountable odds bozo was making that effort but he gave up about then, do we think a bus vote made him call off his efforts and shut up? I think it's a plausible theory worth considering. Could just mean he read the room and decided it was hopeless

Voters at the time:

Jamiet
lfischl
TheFlyingBoat
Vecna
bona
worcej

That's an interesting thought. I suppose it would be interesting to see who each person was voting for at EoD 2 and see if there is a discrepancy that could suggest the possibility for early coordination by mafia.

Jamiet - bozo
lfischl - bozo
TheFlyingBoat - bozo
Vecna - tom
bona - bozo - also lead wagon on bozo forever
worcej - tom - but also rival CC

With the obvious worcej exception (unless you think scum team is bona, worcej, and bozo, in which case jesus), everyone voted for bozo at the end of the day besides Vecna. I think Vecna has been a relatively popular townread, but maybe something is there? I doubt it, though.

Given the timeline of EoN2/D3 I doubt Mafia planned for the bus or at least for it to happen the way it did. There is no way they could have predicted that Bona would be saved by the doc, after all if we believe the Bona-Worcej claim we have to assume mafia chose Bona precisely because they assumed he'd be unprotected. A ton of those votes came right after Worcej's gloating about how he saved Bona.

Given that, do we really think over the course of N2 that mafia came up with a plan to bus Bozo at the beginning of the day or do you think it was more likely they'd try to waste time litigating the 50/50 and trying to maybe force a worcej wagon today if they could get away with it and accept a bozo one tomorrow. I certainly don't think they expected things to go the way they did.

I think a lot of people are just saying Vecna's going to solve the game if you just leave him be at which point there will be no reason for doubt anyway (other people, anyway - still haven't actually seen his town game unless this is is)

I've started perhaps feeling this is an unreasonable metric considering how it's currently being applied against me but still I'm not really sure if the idea is false.

It definitely does sound like the plan was for bozo to contest the claim robustly until worcej uh, slapped him with his meatstick, so to say so I think you're right there

I think the more realistic expectation is that people think im some sort of innocent child through my play. This probably became warped as well because I didnt roll scum in like 2 years. Now that I did a few times, people are having more trouble with sorting me again, which is natural.

My reads and game-sorting is usually too random to be really dependable. Ive had games where I nailed everything and everyone, and games where I nearly completely threw the game for town with terrible paranoia-reads and pattersn that dont exist and tunneling those hard and convincing others to happily tunnel alongside me. I do think people usually put more trust in my townreads than my scumreads (which is probably correct).

[BunnyGo]

Also damn PE. You know how to say the scummiest things but still come off genuine while doing it

I mean it’s not like I can lie about my 2016 vote to this group

It doesn't speak highly of your scumhunting ability.

[BunnyGo]

I wouldn't mind an open-ended paragraph like the first one in my last post.

K well I don't do succinct, so here's a few paragraphs.

I think snowy has spent most of the game encouraging little things to make people suspect others but for the most part has not made any strong cases on anybody. The only one I remember is worcej and I remember finding none of it convincing. For someone who apparently notices so many details and nuance in people's words (given he questions things, and agrees when those kinds of things come up) I'm pretty surprised he hasn't been a larger player. But he's the only one not fully onboard with cop!Chaqa and I townread that.

I still have it in my head that damo is the cop, which sort of forces me to townread Eden. I think he got surprisingly frustrated when I was questioning him about Durga D1 but I've been frustrating a lot of people and other than that I've mostly liked what I've seen. Even as an un-CC'd PR claimant, I am very on the fence about Chaqa. It doesn't help that I actually think Flum is being incredibly scummy himself, but I'd rather not discuss that anyway. I am no longer convinced at all about my theory that Chaqa slipped you being town, but that doesn't mean much for his alignment since there are lots of things pointing to both sides of the arguments. And the way bozo avoided talking about Chaqa and spent *all* his time questioning worcej's start to N1 and not Chaqa's made me think he was intentionally avoiding bringing attention to Chaqa being scummy. Or maybe he just knew Chaqa wouldn't be miskilled so he didn't bother.

Durga almost has to be town. I've played two games with scum!Durga, and she's giving so many more opinions and caring so much more here than she did in those games. The only problem is she fits in so well with my tinfoily scumteam of Chaqa, Flum, Durga, bozo, but that's almost certainly nonsense.

TFB is so careful and stays away from controversy, showing up just enough to not be on a lurking radar. I think he's got a good shot at being scum. Tom is similarly careful and even more lurky but I haven't liked his takes at all. Also I remember him refusing to allow me to vote for HR or Balki when they claimed priest and he hasn't said anything about me voting for Chaqa, so.... sus.

Jamie is apparently not concerned with lurkers this game, which is super weird. I don't have any opinion on his gladiator thing because I don't pretend to be able to read into when Jamie's outbursts are genuine or fake or alignment indicative.

Vecna is town unless he isn't. I wouldn't vote for him for at least 3 more days.

This is a nice post other than your scum read of me which I'll get to in a second. First, I wanted to dive into a counter factual with you. In your second paragraph you devote a lot of analysis to a worldview built around your current view that Damo is the cop. I am curious about your reads in the alternate read in which Damo is just a normal townie.

You say that Damo being cop forces you to accept President Eden is town. How high on your list of suspects would PE rank if Damo is not the cop and doesn't have that "obvtown" clear from Damo?

If damo is not the cop, how much would you say it affects you view that Chaqa isn't the cop? Does it significantly raise your estimation of the possibility or just slightly/not at all? And what do you make of the scum reads you have on Flum in the world the Chaqa is the cop? Who would you point to as scum in such a world?

And then as for your scum read, I really just disagree with it and I don't want to rehash this in long form for the nth time unless you want me to, so I'll just say I really don't think I am that careful at all or avoided controversy. I've made plenty of jokes, led wagons on people like Flum (though it ultimately failed), was probably Jasnah's most ardent defender and sought out fights on the issue a BUNCH, and was really active in the D1 controversies. D2 I was less active on because of watching Texas football with friends and then playing VDL R3 but when I did engage I had plenty of longform posts and back and forth argumentation with people like Bona where had deep replies to each other. I also posted a read list early at the top the day which I defended periodically too.

Noting to myself and others that this post feels like scum!TFB to me. Inserting himself in the ghug/kgray conversation as soon as she points a finger at TFB. Buddying up with "nice post" but "let me point you away from me".

[BunnyGo]

You know I was thinking

When bozo self voted with his rationale someone (I think Durga?) was like "what made you give up bozo" (actually it was definitely Durga that's where the engagement talk came from - is that real I still can't tell). Anyway, and then someone else was like "wow mafia must've really given him up"

Given that even in the face of insurmountable odds bozo was making that effort but he gave up about then, do we think a bus vote made him call off his efforts and shut up? I think it's a plausible theory worth considering. Could just mean he read the room and decided it was hopeless

Voters at the time:

Jamiet
lfischl
TheFlyingBoat
Vecna
bona
worcej

Meh. This is not a strong theory. Even if one or more of them is on his team, I don't see that as a reason that bozo changes his stance.

[BunnyGo]

##VOTE Tom Bombadil

daerb siht teg s’teL

what's with the bread?

[Bonatogether]

"Does this mean jasnah is scum? I don't know. It's certainly in line with bozo trying to fly under the radar to make this assertion, so I think this doesn't change our broader impression."

I mean if we accept your earlier contention that D1 bozo tries to play as town/contribute in ways that makes sense as much as possible when it comes to being town we can probably take those as NAI and take the scum tells and D2 EoD/N2 behavior as indicative of scumminess.

I still think jasnah is town, but I do agree with you that damo is likely not the cop.

Does that mean you look at the scum team as Bozo-Kgray-jasnash-???

I do not. I don't think that bozo post is reflective of jasnah's alignment. I need to think about jasnah some more, tbh.

I'm not opposed to those first 2. I might slap jamie in there too for 3.

Bona did you not see me trying to get bozo killed with you yesterday? You think I do that to my teammate in a no-flip game?
[/quote]

I don't think it's an impossibility.

[Bonatogether]

what about bozo, Tom, Jamie, X?

it makes sense that we might have managed to get two mafia names out there if the team were either inactive (Tom) or present, but not really driving the town in a specific direction (bozo, Jamie)

I keep getting hung up on why Jamie would bus, but I’m just gonna point to M63 where he got me good busing ghug on something I couldn’t understand and say that he does that sometimes and he could’ve done it here

not sure on X yet

This scumteam lines up with my understanding of the game.

[BunnyGo]

Can everyone endvoting please address my posts that jasnas, damo, bozo are not a good pool for oracle targets?

And we have the power to get a fresh unknown corpse available to target instead of wasting the day.

Jasnah is a fine target, especially with bunny acting all weird n shit.

All thisll result in is diverted attention. Better to get the required slow business out of the way now so it wont come later and create and even bigger hole in the game.

How am I acting weird? "n shit"?

Also, reminding myself and others:

We can actually go reread D1 for bozo interactions! Maybe test scumtheories that way.

[Jamiet99uk]

Wow, good work Worcej.

##Vote Bozo

To answer Jamie's question finally: this was his first post of the day. He's got his beer, a doc save, excitement in the game, and this is his post. I don't see any excitement. Maybe I'm confbiased, but it looks like defeated Jamie who is pissed his team wouldn't let him RB the doctor.

This was not worth waiting for.

I cannot possibly be your top scumread on the basis of not showing enough "excitement". Is that really all you've got?

Weak.

[Jamiet99uk]

I counterclaim Cop with a guilty on Bofa

What.

Is this real?

[Jamiet99uk]

I just can't imagine why they wouldn't role block the real doc, and when the doc said they were blocked, the other doc said no, they were blocked instead?

Which means... Chaqa has to be cop?!?!?

Yeah I think it only works if they think Bona is a random enough target that the cop would never save him.

Imagine worcej's ego if that's what happened...

Cop save?

[Jamiet99uk]

??

Because kgray doesn't show online status how do we know she wasn't lurking at EON

what does that have to do with switching the roleblock?

did chaqa reveal who he was rb'ing before day?

Chaqa has a roleblock now?

[BunnyGo]

I just can't imagine why they wouldn't role block the real doc, and when the doc said they were blocked, the other doc said no, they were blocked instead?

Which means... Chaqa has to be cop?!?!?

Yeah I think it only works if they think Bona is a random enough target that the cop would never save him.

Imagine worcej's ego if that's what happened...

Cop save?

Serious question:

Do you think that you are making towny contributions when your 4 posts after coming back are:

1) Responding to the one person who stated a reason why they're voting you
b) Asking a question about a "bofa" joke
iii) nitpicking on cop save vs doc save
four) nitpicking on what action chaqa has

In your self assessment, does that sound like the town!jamie you remember being and playing?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Bonatogether:

How on earth did you go from this:

jamie, chaqa look more town

To this:

scumread: rdr, jamie

In the space of about 3 minutes, on the same page?

[Jamiet99uk]

Yeah I think it only works if they think Bona is a random enough target that the cop would never save him.

Imagine worcej's ego if that's what happened...

Cop save?

Serious question:

Do you think that you are making towny contributions when your 4 posts after coming back are:

1) Responding to the one person who stated a reason why they're voting you
b) Asking a question about a "bofa" joke
iii) nitpicking on cop save vs doc save
four) nitpicking on what action chaqa has

In your self assessment, does that sound like the town!jamie you remember being and playing?

I am in the process of catching up and I am responding to bits and pieces as I see them. You often do the exact same thing.

Why are you displaying such an unpleasant and aggressive attitude towards me, when your push on me is based entirely on the level of emotion I apparently failed to display in a single post?

Try harder.

[Jamiet99uk]

Serious question:

Do you think that you are making towny contributions when your 4 posts after coming back are:

1) Responding to the one person who stated a reason why they're voting you

Also can I just pick out this part?

The way you're phrased this implies that multiple people are voting me but you're special because you're the only one who stated a reason.

That's false.

You are the only person that is voting for me currently.

You did state a reason, but it was a shit reason.

You used to be much better than this. You used to actually try.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm going to go bed. Will post during lunch tomorrow.

Wait. Join me on Jamie, and leave him a note preemptively saying why.

Jamie has been a high poster (420 posts all game rn) without many of the reasonably controversial takes I remember him as. I can't remember anything he's done other than the duel.

GOD DAMN will people STOP saying this!??

I feel deeply besmirched by Kapitan Von Kinkenstein and his little gang.