M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 5.3

flash2015 (3) - Fluminator, ghug, Nanook
ghug (2) - Durga, Maniac
MoscowFleet (1) - Hellenic Riot
seth24c (1) - bozotheclown
Maniac (1) - seth24c
Donny Dude (1) - kgray

FLASH is now set to be erased.

Donny Dude, flash2015, MoscowFleet, worcej have note voted.

Just under 13 hours remain.

[Maniac]

Just wanted to address some unclear thinking about Summit's actions D1. People seem to be saying that I could be traitor but possibly not scum because Summit claimed a PR role. This is nonsense.

If it was scum v scum or scum v town, leading scum would claim a PR with 5 minutes to go for sure. Think about it. If real PR isn't on or keeps quiet what happens? The second place wagon usually takes the lead. If it was scum v scum, then scum lose a different player (big deal) but Summit could then claim later he 'knew' second place was scum and he is a good towny saving himself from a daykill. Would real PR claim at night? They shouldn't. They should wait for to see if Summit drew a NK. Even if Chaqa exposes himself, Summit can claim his claim was designed to draw NK etc. There is no real downside to scum claiming a PR role in scum v scum situations. And obviusly scum will claim a PR in Scum v Town situations.

I know this puts me back in the frame, but we need clear thinking. I'm as likely to be scum as the next man/woman.

[flash2015]

Also the thing about dead townies scum reading flash is more about how the push against flash has been largely town driven and for some reason scum aren't pushing him as much as a miskill. It could be them saving him for later. And Vecna is definitely more appealing as a miskill (but the scum players still had to historically be suspecting Vecna more than flash to vote there). But It's still one of the things that adds up.

That's a much better argument, but it's not what you've been saying.

Who's your number two today?

I did say that! At eod when I was trying to swing it to flash. Kgray said it was a good point then. You said something like "flash is actually getting pressure so it's not a good point" or something.

It's hard to pick a number 2 when a lot of my read on the game revolves around Flash's alignment.

Say I am scum, who are my scum buddies?

If I am not scum, who would they be?

[flash2015]

I guess this sets my initial vote:

##VOTE Flum

[Fluminator]

If you're scum I'd look more closely at Bozo and Moscow.
I also still suspect at least one of kgray, ghug, HR is scum.

If you're not I'd look more closely at Donny.

[Fluminator]

Is it a townie instinct to assume all the scum were pushing for you over Vecna? Or is there more to your scumreads?

[kgray]

I guess I was just looking at your most recent posts.

So in summary you think the scum team is Seth and me so far. Who do you think may be the other two?

I don't understand how flash can be so concerned with putting a team together and finding out who other people think the whole scumteam is when he can't even give reasons for his scumreads.

Is he always this difficult?

Do you think it isn't useful to find out what people's scumteams are? It is useful to me.

I think it's more useful to know reasons for people's scumreads. Why do you scumread Donny, Flum and Moscow?

[kgray]

Just wanted to address some unclear thinking about Summit's actions D1. People seem to be saying that I could be traitor but possibly not scum because Summit claimed a PR role. This is nonsense.

If it was scum v scum or scum v town, leading scum would claim a PR with 5 minutes to go for sure. Think about it. If real PR isn't on or keeps quiet what happens? The second place wagon usually takes the lead. If it was scum v scum, then scum lose a different player (big deal) but Summit could then claim later he 'knew' second place was scum and he is a good towny saving himself from a daykill. Would real PR claim at night? They shouldn't. They should wait for to see if Summit drew a NK. Even if Chaqa exposes himself, Summit can claim his claim was designed to draw NK etc. There is no real downside to scum claiming a PR role in scum v scum situations. And obviusly scum will claim a PR in Scum v Town situations.

I know this puts me back in the frame, but we need clear thinking. I'm as likely to be scum as the next man/woman.

I don't think summit could have claimed he "knew" you were scum. He said he was null on you and didn't have much choice but to vote you. I also think you are overestimating summit's ability to make bold plays as scum (no offense summit).

This really seems like a scum ploy, trying to draw attention to the possibility that you could be scum because people would think there's no way anyone would do this as scum.

What did you think Vecna's scumslip was? Is Durga your strongest townread, and why?

[Donny Dude]

If you're scum I'd look more closely at Bozo and Moscow.
I also still suspect at least one of kgray, ghug, HR is scum.

If you're not I'd look more closely at Donny.

Flum, if you were to say right now which one of kgray hr ghug would it be?

[Fluminator]

still ghug

[Donny Dude]

still ghug

k.
##vote flash

[flash2015]

Is it a townie instinct to assume all the scum were pushing for you over Vecna? Or is there more to your scumreads?

Huh? If I look at D4 I see two voting for me (you and Donny) with the other two voting (Moscow and worcej) voting for Vecna. I was hoping you could prove me wrong...but if anything this solidifies my guess.

[bozotheclown]

Just wanted to address some unclear thinking about Summit's actions D1. People seem to be saying that I could be traitor but possibly not scum because Summit claimed a PR role. This is nonsense.

If it was scum v scum or scum v town, leading scum would claim a PR with 5 minutes to go for sure. Think about it. If real PR isn't on or keeps quiet what happens? The second place wagon usually takes the lead. If it was scum v scum, then scum lose a different player (big deal) but Summit could then claim later he 'knew' second place was scum and he is a good towny saving himself from a daykill. Would real PR claim at night? They shouldn't. They should wait for to see if Summit drew a NK. Even if Chaqa exposes himself, Summit can claim his claim was designed to draw NK etc. There is no real downside to scum claiming a PR role in scum v scum situations. And obviusly scum will claim a PR in Scum v Town situations.

I know this puts me back in the frame, but we need clear thinking. I'm as likely to be scum as the next man/woman.

The scum vs. scum part assumes summit would think he could pull of a town motivated fake claim and have enough players believe he was town. I recently did that D1 as town to avoid a mis-kill, and no one believed my claim could be town motivated (although my counter wagon turned out to be town, but sometimes that happens when you are really town).

Your explaining why you could be mafia and not the traitor makes me wonder if that is something you would do as the traitor. Maybe this was a blatant signal that we are letting you get away with:

Just for info we scum know our scum buddies. Not intimately yet, but I’m sure when we meet up in the scum room later we’ll get better acquainted.

[Donny Dude]

Is it a townie instinct to assume all the scum were pushing for you over Vecna? Or is there more to your scumreads?

Huh? If I look at D4 I see two voting for me (you and Donny) with the other two voting (Moscow and worcej) voting for Vecna. I was hoping you could prove me wrong...but if anything this solidifies my guess.

Did you only look at d4?

[bozotheclown]

Just wanted to address some unclear thinking about Summit's actions D1. People seem to be saying that I could be traitor but possibly not scum because Summit claimed a PR role. This is nonsense.

If it was scum v scum or scum v town, leading scum would claim a PR with 5 minutes to go for sure. Think about it. If real PR isn't on or keeps quiet what happens? The second place wagon usually takes the lead. If it was scum v scum, then scum lose a different player (big deal) but Summit could then claim later he 'knew' second place was scum and he is a good towny saving himself from a daykill. Would real PR claim at night? They shouldn't. They should wait for to see if Summit drew a NK. Even if Chaqa exposes himself, Summit can claim his claim was designed to draw NK etc. There is no real downside to scum claiming a PR role in scum v scum situations. And obviusly scum will claim a PR in Scum v Town situations.

I know this puts me back in the frame, but we need clear thinking. I'm as likely to be scum as the next man/woman.

I don't think summit could have claimed he "knew" you were scum. He said he was null on you and didn't have much choice but to vote you. I also think you are overestimating summit's ability to make bold plays as scum (no offense summit).

This really seems like a scum ploy, trying to draw attention to the possibility that you could be scum because people would think there's no way anyone would do this as scum.

What did you think Vecna's scumslip was? Is Durga your strongest townread, and why?

This is similar to my reaction.

[flash2015]

I don't understand how flash can be so concerned with putting a team together and finding out who other people think the whole scumteam is when he can't even give reasons for his scumreads.

Is he always this difficult?

Do you think it isn't useful to find out what people's scumteams are? It is useful to me.

I think it's more useful to know reasons for people's scumreads. Why do you scumread Donny, Flum and Moscow?

I am not going to go into elaborate explanations to explain my thoughts. I don't have time (especially today) to write it and to respond to everyone saying how bad my reasoning is.

I think it should be clear why I am scumreading Flum. I see that obsession with me as scummy...especially the (I am not going to find the exact quote) "I am locked in to voting for flash". You are letting him get away with it because it is all become too easy to get townie points for criticising my play.

It could be that my reasoning is nonsense. It probably is. Rather than building elaborate cases on people, I prefer to have a guess then try to prove myself wrong. One way I feel I can do this is to ask who everyone believes is the scum team...which is what I was trying to do now. Perhaps out of this they will tell me something I missed (e.g. I was hoping Flum was right and I had screwed up due to the distribution of my guess on the Vecna/flash wagons) and I can adjust accordingly.

If you think I am scum, just vote for me. Put me out of my misery. I won't hold it against you (much)...

[flash2015]

Is it a townie instinct to assume all the scum were pushing for you over Vecna? Or is there more to your scumreads?

Huh? If I look at D4 I see two voting for me (you and Donny) with the other two voting (Moscow and worcej) voting for Vecna. I was hoping you could prove me wrong...but if anything this solidifies my guess.

Did you only look at d4?

Which day should I be looking at?

[Durga]

Okay, if the only thing you can come up with at this point is omgus then

##vote flash

[flash2015]

Can't get much info from D1 as almost everyone was on summit
D2 was 2-1-1 so it doesn't break the theory.
Can't get much info from D3 as everyone was on bunny.

[flash2015]

Okay, if the only thing you can come up with at this point is omgus then

##vote flash

Fuck this then:

##VOTE flash
##END